What do you need to know to get to heaven?

Lamb

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I go to church because the Holy Spirit prompts me to go there. He prompts me to read His Word and by His Word He will increase me faith. It's not MY doing but His guidance to grow me as His child. I'm never alone. He's always with me and working in me. I trust in Him to never leave me.
 

Josiah

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Bill -


I don't deny that there are several things involved in how WE become justified.... there is some mystery involved (for 2000 years, Christians have used that word in this context). HOWEVER (and this is critical, absolutely essential) anything that blurs the point that Jesus is the Savior must - foundationally - must be rejected and must be wrong. By even just implying that WE do x,y,z and THEREFORE we are saved makes the Savior just self. It means looking in the mirror for the Savior, giving self the credit. It foundationally rejects and repudiates the central, keystone point of Christianity that Jesus IS THE Savior and aligns soteriolgy with that of modern Judaism, Islam and Bhatki Hinduism: that we are justified by what WE do (albeit with divine help and empowerment); "hoop jumping/works righteousness" view of salvation. THIS is why Luther, Calvin and all the Reformers avoided the kind of language you are using - it undermines the central, foundational, keystone point that Jesus is the Savior (not me) and thus all Christianity collapses and we are left with just a minor revision to Judaism, akin much more with Islam than orthodox Christianity: Looking to Christ has been replaced with looking in the mirror at a meritious, empowered, glorious, good-enough ME, ultimately we enter heaven because of what WE did (the central point of modern Judaism, Islam and Bhakti Hinduism and why those religions reject Christ as THE SAVIOR).

IMO, no one CAN ask for forgiveness in the Name of Jesus ("repent") apart from already having the divine gift of faith, and the Bible itself says that no one can ask Jesus into their heart without previously having the divine gift of faith. Indeed, the Bible says that it is IMPOSSIBLE for us to do ANYTHING - anything - anything whatsoever in this context - apart from HAVING faith. To even just imply that FIRST we do x,y,x and THUS we are saved is to destroy Christianity, to abandon Christian justification. Yes, again, there is MYSTERY here. We don't fully understand how all these aspects interrelate (or even if they do): But this must not be abandoned, this must in no way be undermined, this in no way can be placed into question: the Savior is NOT me. Not at all. Not a bit. Not ever. The job is taken. Salvation is what JESUS does (fully, sufficiently, wholly, completely) since Jesus is the Savior. To even imply such is not the case is to destroy Christianity and to embrace instead some from of modern Judaism, Islam and/or Bhatki Hinduism.


Answer this: WHO is the SAVIOR?
Answer that - clearly, definitively, singularly - in your heart.

IF you answer "Jesus" then Jesus is the Savior. Not you, not me - not a bit, not at all, not now, not ever, not in any way or shape or form or manner. Salvation is entirely, wholly, completely, sufficiently wrapped up in Jesus. It's entirely HIS work. HIS heart. HIS love. HIS mercy. HIS gift. HIS blessing. His life, His death, His resurrection. His Cross, His blood, His sacrifice. His righteousness, His obedience, His holiness. Not you. Not yours. Not your obedience, not your righteouness, not your prayers or repentance or decisions or invitations, not your perfections, not your surrendering, not your anything, not YOU. You may have some other role in some other matter, but not this. The "job" of Savior belongs to Jesus. Not you.

IF you answer "ME!" then you are the Savior. Not Jesus. Not a bit, not at all. Not now, not ever. Not in any way, shape or form or manner. Salvation is all wrapped up in YOU. YOUR works. YOUR will. YOUR love. YOUR efforts. YOUR merits. YOUR obedience. YOUR righteousness. YOUR holiness. YOUR sacrifice. Not Jesus. Not Jesus'. Jesus may have some other role in some other matter, just not this one. The Savior is you.

When it comes to salvation (justification in the narrow sense) you have two places you can look/trust/rely: The Cross or the mirror. Who is on the Cross, who is in the mirror.

Which is it? Try answering that - clearly, distinctively, definitively, singularly, boldly - in your heart and mind and soul. If you give the Christian answer, a LOT of Christianity falls into place. If you give the Christian answer, then the central point of Christianity is affirmed and all of Christianity comes into focus. True: you too will join with all Christians over the past 2000 years embracing a bit of mystery (we can't wrap our puny, fallen brains around EXACTLY all the DETAILS of HOW Jesus saves) but that's okay.... better to deny we've totally wrapped God around our sinful, fallen brain than to destroy the keystone of Christianity.

NOTHING is more important.



Pax Christi



- Josiah






.
 
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MoreCoffee

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Lamb

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Then one need not know and understand anything to receive a gift, right?

John the Baptist leapt in his mother's womb when Mary, carrying Jesus in her womb came near. From that we know that babies in the womb CAN be given faith by God's Word.

We also know that in baptism, God's Word can give faith in those waters. It's God's Word that is effective in granting faith. We don't have a part in that in order to receive.

Our Heavenly Father WANTS us to know Him and so HE builds that Father/Child relationship, giving us faith to believe, giving us faith to grow and trust in Him. It's His work in us as he builds us up in knowledge. What we need to know HE provides to us and He does it in His time. He has given us the Bible so that we have His Word and the Holy Spirit uses that to strengthen us.

We are saved by grace through faith. Faith grasps onto the knowledge that God gives to us by His Word and it directs us to the Savior and the forgiveness of sins so we know we are redeemed.
 

Cassia

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John the Baptist leapt in his mother's womb when Mary, carrying Jesus in her womb came near. From that we know that babies in the womb CAN be given faith by God's Word.

We also know that in baptism, God's Word can give faith in those waters. It's God's Word that is effective in granting faith. We don't have a part in that in order to receive.

Our Heavenly Father WANTS us to know Him and so HE builds that Father/Child relationship, giving us faith to believe, giving us faith to grow and trust in Him. It's His work in us as he builds us up in knowledge. What we need to know HE provides to us and He does it in His time. He has given us the Bible so that we have His Word and the Holy Spirit uses that to strengthen us.

We are saved by grace through faith. Faith grasps onto the knowledge that God gives to us by His Word and it directs us to the Savior and the forgiveness of sins so we know we are redeemed.

Are you saying that all babies are born containing the Holy Spirit because I believe the bible makes the point that John the Baptist was a miracle birth for the purpose of His Kingdom. I don't think that sets a president at all. I can see people using that as a verification for infant baptism
 

MoreCoffee

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This thread is not intended to be about varying views of baptism.
 

Lamb

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Are you saying that all babies are born containing the Holy Spirit because I believe the bible makes the point that John the Baptist was a miracle birth for the purpose of His Kingdom. I don't think that sets a president at all. I can see people using that as a verification for infant baptism

No, I do not believe ALL babies are born containing the Holy Spirit.

I brought up baptism because in baptism God's Word is in the waters and gives us faith. God wants us to know who He is and what He has done for us, this is most certainly true and He wants us to know how HE came to earth and died in our place and that our sins are forgiven. He wants us to know that when He returns that we will have eternal life. There are many things God wants us to know but it's not a matter of how much do you need to know so that you can get to heaven but whether you're rejecting the Savior who saves you so you can get to heaven. It's always about the Savior who saves.
 

meluckycharms

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Is there a bare minimum of doctrines that one must know, understand, and accept as true in order to please God and get to heaven?

As an aside Catholics do not teach that everybody needs to know, understand, and believe some set of doctrines in order to please God and be received into heaven.
I would argue that absolutely everything you need to know to be saved is in the Gospels. Especially everything in red font. I cannot believe for one second that God would have allowed Jesus to die on the cross before having said and done everything necessary for salvation. When Jesus said, "It is finished!"....He meant it.
 

visionary

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Know Him... The rest He will explain, the who, what, where, when, how..
 

popsthebuilder

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Should it be what you know or who you know? :)

We are saved by grace through faith. God gives us faith in order to believe and in our baptisms we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. God uses His Word to teach us and His Word grants us faith and strengthens our faith. He uses Law to accuse and bring us to contrition and gives the Gospel to comfort us and turn us to Him in repentance. He gives us the forgiveness of sins won at the cross. He gives us His love, mercy and faithfulness.

So, what should we know in order to gain heaven or WHO should we know? If we know our triune God and trust in His forgiveness for our sins, we have eternal life.
Great post, but is the word triune needed?

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
 

Lamb

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Great post, but is the word triune needed?

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

Absolutely!

You see, because of nature people can know that there is a god. But just knowing that a god exists isn't the same as having faith IN GOD.
 

popsthebuilder

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Absolutely!

You see, because of nature people can know that there is a god. But just knowing that a god exists isn't the same as having faith IN GOD.
I agree there is a difference in knowing of a thing and knowing a thing.

I still don't see the need for Trinitarian view as prerequisite for salvation.

Thanks

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
 

MoreCoffee

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I am still not sure how the idea that one needs to know and understand some thing squares with the idea that God and God alone acts in saving his people from their sins.
 

Lamb

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I am still not sure how the idea that one needs to know and understand some thing squares with the idea that God and God alone acts in saving his people from their sins.

God gives us faith and wants us to grow in faith. If we start believing the WRONG things about doctrine, then we harm our faith. He guides us by His Word and wants us to know HIM but man has itching ears that turn away from the truth.
 

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Is there a bare minimum of doctrines that one must know, understand, and accept as true in order to please God and get to heaven?

As an aside Catholics do not teach that everybody needs to know, understand, and believe some set of doctrines in order to please God and be received into heaven.

what is far more important to us is .. what did Jesus command us to tell people (PREACH) --as doing THAT.. = obedience
 

Lamb

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what is far more important to us is .. what did Jesus command us to tell people (PREACH) --as doing THAT.. = obedience

What's far more important is what Jesus has done. Nothing you can do will ever trump Jesus.
 

Romanos

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And what has he done

Hi Alithis,

What in your opinion do you believe that Jesus has done?

Good to see you on the discussion. :)
 

MoreCoffee

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what is far more important to us is .. what did Jesus command us to tell people (PREACH) -- as doing THAT.. = obedience

[MENTION=61]Alithis[/MENTION], does one need to obey Jesus' command/commands to be received into heaven?
 

psalms 91

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[MENTION=61]Alithis[/MENTION], does one need to obey Jesus' command/commands to be received into heaven?
Lets see, satan got kicked out for pride and disobedience so I seriously doubt that God is going to allow rebellion (disobedience) back into heaven
 
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