Marian Apparitions

[George]

So I know I spoke about this with someone on here before, and wanted to bring it up. I know some discussion associated with this is that Satan will masquerade as an angel of light and something good to deceive us. I've never really developed an opinion on these, since they seem to be more common with Catholicism, but wanted to see the thoughts. Please be respectful though.

 

[MoreCoffee]

So I know I spoke about this with someone on here before, and wanted to bring it up. I know some discussion associated with this is that Satan will masquerade as an angel of light and something good to deceive us. I've never really developed an opinion on these, since they seem to be more common with Catholicism, but wanted to see the thoughts. Please be respectful though.

I've never seen an angel, spirit, or Blessed Mary in vision, dream, or face to face so I have no experience from which to form an opinion all I can go on is what the people who have claimed experiences of Blessed Mary have said or written and that seems to be a mixed testimony to me. Some say very good things that appear to be true to both life and holy Tradition while others say things that seem whimsical or quixotic thus seeming unlike life and holy Tradition. I haven't made an extensive study of any claimed visit from Blessed Mary. Thus far my knowledge about these things is superficial.

 

[Rens]

So I know I spoke about this with someone on here before, and wanted to bring it up. I know some discussion associated with this is that Satan will masquerade as an angel of light and something good to deceive us. I've never really developed an opinion on these, since they seem to be more common with Catholicism, but wanted to see the thoughts. Please be respectful though.

I don't think you can see Mary unless you go to heaven. The disciples saw Moses and Elijah with the mount of transfiguration and Saul saw Samuel, but those were exceptions. Best test the spirits. If people say they go to heaven all the time and see angels all the time I don't trust it either. They just talk to them like it's their buddy. When Mary saw an angel she feared and he had an important message. If people don't fear I don't trust it. Like those people filming a gold dust cloud. One guy said if God's glory came in the O.T. the people were terrified and convicted of sin. Now they take out their cell phone and film it.

 

[Josiah]

I've never seen an angel, spirit, or Blessed Mary in vision, dream, or face to face so I have no experience from which to form an opinion all I can go on is what the people who have claimed experiences of Blessed Mary have said or written and that seems to be a mixed testimony to me. Some say very good things that appear to be true to both life and holy Tradition while others say things that seem whimsical or quixotic thus seeming unlike life and holy Tradition. I haven't made an extensive study of any claimed visit from Blessed Mary. Thus far my knowledge about these things is superficial.

:thumbsup: (and good to have you back)



IMO, experience is always very difficult to evaluate. Someone CLAIMS that some angel privately whispered words in their ear...... someone CLAIMS some "saint" audibly spoke individually with them..... someone CLAIMS they "saw" Jesus........ is it theoretically possible? IMO, yes. We have examples of this in the Bible (some important, consider the resurrection appearances of Jesus or even Moses' burning bush). I have a tough time arguing what God cannot do. On the other hand, it's often impossible to verify this..... and we must consider that it seems to be (at its core) a private, personal, individual thing - and thus perhaps of no consequence or importance to the rest of us? Thus, I hesitate to insist people are lying when they report such things..... although I realize it's entirely possible to be sincerely wrong. On the other hand, I hesitate to give much importance to such, and I'm careful to examine whatever "revelation" they may report vis-a-vis Scripture.



My half cent.


Pax Christi


- Josiah



.

 

[psalms 91]

The only thing I know is that when Elijah was called up by the witch of Endor was not of God and also when the rich man wanted to go backl he couldnt so that tells me the origin of these things

 

[Lamb]

Here are the things that I DO know.

People lie. Not all people, but a lot of people do.
People can be deceived.
Satan wants to draw us away from God and trust in something besides God.
People want attention and their 15 minutes of fame.
People like to play tricks and then when it gets too big, it's too late to take it back.

I don't believe God would send "Mary" to comfort His people. He already sent His Son.

 

[Lamb]

And I can't help it, but when I first saw this thread I really thought it said Martian Apparitions. Go Martians!

 

[psalms 91]

I love it lol

 

[Lamb]

So I know I spoke about this with someone on here before, and wanted to bring it up. I know some discussion associated with this is that Satan will masquerade as an angel of light and something good to deceive us. I've never really developed an opinion on these, since they seem to be more common with Catholicism, but wanted to see the thoughts. Please be respectful though.

George, I know you said you don't have an opinion, but what if you saw an image of a supposed Mary? What would be some of your first thoughts?

 

[ThreeAngels]

The Word of God is our guide in this matter as it should be in all things. David declares that man is not conscious in death. "His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish." Psalm 146:4. Solomon bears the same testimony: "The living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything." "Their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion forever in anything that is done under the sun." "There is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the. grave, whither thou goest." Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6, 10. These apparitions are the spirits of devils. Mary and the other saints lie in the dust of the earth till the day the voice of the Son of God shall call her forth.

 

[visionary]

One thing I found interesting is that both RCC and Muslims venerate these images.

It began on the eve of Tuesday, April of 1968. Everything was normal. Then all of a sudden there she was walking among the domes on a Coptic Church. Eyewitness accounts speak of a silent lady bathed in light.

http://www.zeitun-eg.org/zeitoun1.htm

 

[Lamb]

Anything that turns us away from the true Savior is not from God.

The Lady of Fatima ...there are writings that state the children were told to sacrifice themselves for sinners and one was told to atone for the sins of unbelievers. Aren't those things the lies of Satan since Jesus sacrificed Himself once and for all and our sins are atoned for?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Anything that turns us away from the true Savior is not from God.

The Lady of Fatima ...there are writings that state the children were told to sacrifice themselves for sinners and one was told to atone for the sins of unbelievers. Aren't those things the lies of Satan since Jesus sacrificed Himself once and for all and our sins are atoned for?

Paul says he completes what is lacking in the suffering of Christ in a discussion about his sufferings while preaching the gospel. Evidently Paul knew of no impediment to belief that his sufferings played a redemptive role in the lives of those who received the gospel because of his preaching work which precipitated them. The children may have referred to similar preaching activities that led to their own suffering and from which some came to faith in Christ. And it is part of Christian faith to offer ourselves (as Christ offered himself) for the benefit of the brethren and as living sacrifices to God. If you want I will give the passages that say these things but a little effort will uncover them for anybody who wants to know and assure themselves that they are present in holy scripture.

anyway, here is one ...

Colossians 1:24-29 KJV [24] Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: [25] Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; [26] Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: [27] To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: [28] Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: [29] Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

 

[visionary]

Paul says he completes what is lacking in the suffering of Christ in a discussion about his sufferings while preaching the gospel. Evidently Paul knew of no impediment to belief that his sufferings played a redemptive role in the lives of those who received the gospel because of his preaching work which precipitated them. The children may have referred to similar preaching activities that led to their own suffering and from which some came to faith in Christ. And it is part of Christian faith to offer ourselves (as Christ offered himself) for the benefit of the brethren and as living sacrifices to God. If you want I will give the passages that say these things but a little effort will uncover them for anybody who wants to know and assure themselves that they are present in holy scripture.

anyway, here is one ...

Colossians 1:24-29 KJV [24] Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: [25] Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; [26] Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: [27] To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: [28] Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: [29] Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

There is no way that any sacrificing on our part has anything to do with the redemption process which Yeshua performed. I think this is where self inflicted wounds for religion come from.

 

[MoreCoffee]

There is no way that any sacrificing on our part has anything to do with the redemption process which Yeshua performed. I think this is where self inflicted wounds for religion come from.

The passage I quoted says otherwise.

 

[visionary]

The passage I quoted says otherwise.

At first glance, this difficult passage seems to imply that Jesus’ atonement is somehow deficient, and believers make up for what is missing through their own suffering. But Paul is not teaching what would be contradictory to his teachings elsewhere. He has just emphasized the sufficiency of Yeshua as "God in the Flesh" who makes peace between the Father and His people through the “blood of his cross” (vv. 15–23). Paul will go on in Colossians 2 to describe the victory over sin, Satan, and death Jesus won at Calvary, refuting any suggestion that the cross is lacking. Moreover, the Greek term thlipsis, translated sufferings in 1:23, is never used for the redemptive sufferings of Yeshua in the New Testament.

 

[MoreCoffee]

At first glance, this difficult passage

Colossians 1:24-29 KJV [24] Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: [25] Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; [26] Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: [27] To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: [28] Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: [29] Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Is not a difficult passage.

seems to imply that Jesus’ atonement is somehow deficient, and believers make up for what is missing through their own suffering. But Paul is not teaching what would be contradictory to his teachings elsewhere. He has just emphasized the sufficiency of Yeshua as "God in the Flesh" who makes peace between the Father and His people through the “blood of his cross” (vv. 15–23). Paul will go on in Colossians 2 to describe the victory over sin, Satan, and death Jesus won at Calvary, refuting any suggestion that the cross is lacking. Moreover, the Greek term thlipsis, translated sufferings in 1:23, is never used for the redemptive sufferings of Yeshua in the New Testament.

The difficulty is for you when you try to reconcile beliefs with what is written in the passage.

 

[visionary]

Colossians 1:24-29 KJV [24] Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: [25] Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; [26] Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: [27] To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: [28] Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: [29] Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Is not a difficult passage.




The difficulty is for you when you try to reconcile beliefs with what is written in the passage.

Then why would you believe that God wants you to beat yourself with whips and chains to gain His favor?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Then why would you believe that God wants you to beat yourself with whips and chains to gain His favor?

I don't. That's a fantasy of your own invention.

 

[visionary]

I don't. That's a fantasy of your own invention.

Yet your faith says differently. Opus Dei: “Mortification the voluntary offering up of discomfort or pain to God; this includes fasting, or in some circumstances self-inflicted pain such as self-flagellation. Mortification has a long history in many world religions, including the Catholic Church.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortification_in_Roman_Catholic_teaching
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagellant