Once Saved Always Saved

Josiah

simul justus et peccator
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
13,927
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
As long as The Savior is the one we see in the mirror, there will ALWAYS be insecurity (as long as there is any honesty). When such is the Savior on the Cross, all such vanishes.
 

Cassia

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 13, 2016
Messages
1,735
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Widow/Widower
Here's the difference between "those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit" in Hebrews 6 and then Hebrews 10's "who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?" Can you tell which one you are talking about? .... .....
Just to elaborate on this a bit....

Heb 9:22 says clearly, "without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness."

What the Bible says this about the precious blood of the Lord Jesus. Matthew 26:28, Acts 20:28, Romans 3:25, Romans 5:9, Ephesians 1:7, Ephesians 2:13, Colossians 1:20, Hebrews 9:14, Hebrews 10:19-20, 1 Peter 1:18-19, 1 John, Revelation 1:5

Sin = need for redemption= price to pay for sin= Christ's blood can grant forgiveness and make eternity possible for us by recognizing sin, accepting payment of the blood of Christ. Forgiveness accepted= conscience cleaned= ability to serve God


Hebrews 9:8-10
The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
Hebrews 9:13-15
For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Hebrews 10:21-23
And having an high priest over the house of God;
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised)​

So what about those who trample the blood of Christ under their feet? Hebrews 10:28-29,31. Falling into the hands of the living God is not a good thing when it entails His wrath. They will die w/o mercy (people who reject this seem to have more mercy than God) and in rejecting the Holy Spirit they will go to hell.

Mankind is not uninformed! The Holy Spirit works on mankind individually to show the way to grace in the salvation accomplished by the Son of God, causing mankind to know the effectiveness of the precious blood and prompting an immediatete acceptance to wash away all of their sins. But some are just unwilling; they reject the demands and prompting of the Holy Spirit. They love their sins and consider the precious blood of the Lord Jesus as something insignificant. They may listen to the bible but believing puts too much emphasis on application.

The only way to salvation is thru the blood of Christ our Lord. The Lord Jesus shed His precious blood to cleanse from all sins. It's a guarantee before God that every sinner who believes in Him will be saved eternally. It's the proof that every sinner's sins have been judged and punished. If not why was the blood shed? Therefore, rejecting this blood will cause a sinner to perish eternally.
Hardening the heart and rejecting the unique invitation in not allowing Christ to die for oneself means that self stands before judgment.

Clearly there is a huge difference between what is said in Hebrews 6 compared to Hebrews 10. So in clumping all Hebrews together seriously as having the same meaning clearly misinterprets what is being put forth in the book of Hebrews.
 

visionary

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 15, 2015
Messages
2,824
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Messianic
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
For these verses alone, the "once saved always saved" falls. Because "once enlightened" doesn't come to those who are not saved.

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

That is, it is impossible to bring them back to saving repentance. So it is saying that they were there before the fall away. The first thing that the Holy Spirit does when he is converting a soul is to give light

Eph 5:8 Ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord.

This light, brethren, too, is sanctifying light.
2 Cor 3:18 Beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, we are changed into the same image, from glory to glory.

And this is saving light we are to walk in.

John 17:3 For this is life eternal, to know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.

Have you been enlightened? Can you say with the blind man

John 9:25 Once I was blind but now I see.

The heavenly gift is the gift of God. Is the same that is spoken of in

John 1:14 The Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Paul calls it the 'unspeakable gift'

2 Cor 9:15 Thanks be to God for his unspeakable gift.

Psalm 34:8 O taste and see that the LORD is good.

When a soul tastes the heavenly gift, then it is made a partaker of the Holy Ghost. And observe the word 'partakers.' It means sharers alike and sharers with all that are believers. And not only so, but ye are partakers also with Yeshua; for the Holy Spirit that dwells in Yeshua dwells in the believer. So you are partakers with God

Romans 8:17 For if sons then heirs, heirs of God, and joint heirs with Jesus Christ.

As the once saved always saved crowd have, 'they have tasted the good word of God.' I believe this means the Word of God [Scripture] the Word which God has given us.

Is 52:7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace...

Is 50:4 The Lord GOD hath given me the tongue of the learned, that I should know how to speak a word in season to him that is weary.

It is the same the angels spoke of when they appeared to the shepherds of Bethlehem.

Luke 2:10 Fear not; for behold I bring you good tidings of great joy which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day, in the city of David, a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord

They live under 'the power of the world to come'. The unconverted live under the power of this world, greed, lust, pride, selfishness, gluttony, etc. Unconverted men live under the power of these things; but converted souls live under the power of the world to come. They will never put the Lord to shame of "claiming" but in their lives denying.

1 Timothy 5:21 If we had sinned, that would have been our portion.
 

Cassia

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 13, 2016
Messages
1,735
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Widow/Widower
For these verses alone, the "once saved always saved" falls. Because "once enlightened" doesn't come to those who are not saved.

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

That is, it is impossible to bring them back to saving repentance. So it is saying that they were there before the fall away. The first thing that the Holy Spirit does when he is converting a soul is to give light

Eph 5:8 Ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord.

This light, brethren, too, is sanctifying light.
2 Cor 3:18 Beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, we are changed into the same image, from glory to glory.

And this is saving light we are to walk in.

John 17:3 For this is life eternal, to know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.

Have you been enlightened? Can you say with the blind man

John 9:25 Once I was blind but now I see.

The heavenly gift is the gift of God. Is the same that is spoken of in

John 1:14 The Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Paul calls it the 'unspeakable gift'

2 Cor 9:15 Thanks be to God for his unspeakable gift.

Psalm 34:8 O taste and see that the LORD is good.

When a soul tastes the heavenly gift, then it is made a partaker of the Holy Ghost. And observe the word 'partakers.' It means sharers alike and sharers with all that are believers. And not only so, but ye are partakers also with Yeshua; for the Holy Spirit that dwells in Yeshua dwells in the believer. So you are partakers with God

Romans 8:17 For if sons then heirs, heirs of God, and joint heirs with Jesus Christ.

As the once saved always saved crowd have, 'they have tasted the good word of God.' I believe this means the Word of God [Scripture] the Word which God has given us.

Is 52:7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace...

Is 50:4 The Lord GOD hath given me the tongue of the learned, that I should know how to speak a word in season to him that is weary.

It is the same the angels spoke of when they appeared to the shepherds of Bethlehem.

Luke 2:10 Fear not; for behold I bring you good tidings of great joy which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day, in the city of David, a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord

They live under 'the power of the world to come'. The unconverted live under the power of this world, greed, lust, pride, selfishness, gluttony, etc. Unconverted men live under the power of these things; but converted souls live under the power of the world to come. They will never put the Lord to shame of "claiming" but in their lives denying.

1 Timothy 5:21 If we had sinned, that would have been our portion.
I'm quite sure that the turning back is toward Judaism in this passage instead of moving on with the Lord. While Christ can be seen in the tabernacle first built on earth as a shadow of Him in the heavenlies as our High Priest, it does take a realignment to the position of placing oneself on the altar and keeping oneself there. It only takes repentance once to have access but it also takes a no turning back to remain there.
 

Cassia

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 13, 2016
Messages
1,735
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Widow/Widower
As long as The Savior is the one we see in the mirror, there will ALWAYS be insecurity (as long as there is any honesty). When such is the Savior on the Cross, all such vanishes.

I don't believe that. Seeing Christ resurrected and our place there with Him is what vanishes insecurities
 

psalms 91

Well-known member
Moderator
Valued Contributor
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2015
Messages
15,282
Age
75
Location
Pa
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Charismatic
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
When we can believe who we are in Christ then we can come boldly
 

Lamb

God's Lil Lamb
Community Team
Administrator
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
32,649
Age
57
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
I don't believe that. Seeing Christ resurrected and our place there with Him is what vanishes insecurities

Faith grasps onto the fact that we have a Savior who forgives. God gives that faith to us to believe so that we are assured we have eternal life with Him but it's always because of Him and what He's done, is doing and will do when He comes again. If I look at me, then I'm doomed. If I look at Him, THERE is my assurance. There is my Savior. There is my future.
 

George

Tis Theos Megas
Joined
Jun 15, 2015
Messages
910
Age
29
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Eastern Orthodox
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
I don't believe that. Seeing Christ resurrected and our place there with Him is what vanishes insecurities

Does the ability to sin vanish as well?
 

Cassia

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 13, 2016
Messages
1,735
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Widow/Widower
When we can believe who we are in Christ then we can come boldly

Yes I agree Hebrews 10:19-20 For those not familiar with the 'Old Testament tabernacle' that God built, the tabernacle was divided into 2 sections, the Holy Place and the Holy of Holies (where God's glory resides) that was separated by the veil. The altar of sacrifice was outside of the tent (tabernacle) We enter now thru the blood of Christ Hebrews 9:12, Hebrews 10:19, 1 Peter 1:18-20 For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life you inherited from your forefathers, 19but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or spot. 20He was known before the foundation of the world, but was revealed in the last times for your sake.…
 

George

Tis Theos Megas
Joined
Jun 15, 2015
Messages
910
Age
29
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Eastern Orthodox
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes

Cassia

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 13, 2016
Messages
1,735
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Widow/Widower
Faith grasps onto the fact that we have a Savior who forgives. God gives that faith to us to believe so that we are assured we have eternal life with Him but it's always because of Him and what He's done, is doing and will do when He comes again. If I look at me, then I'm doomed. If I look at Him, THERE is my assurance. There is my Savior. There is my future.
I'm not saying that the cross is not unshakable ground. Too many denominations leave Christ there in sadness and rejection, or some even never see a mature Jesus but leave Him in a manger. I'm saying that is not where Christ is now, they are all three His accomplishments and that the process brings us thru all of it with Him. Those are the greater works in completion of all that He has done by following Him in all of that.
 

George

Tis Theos Megas
Joined
Jun 15, 2015
Messages
910
Age
29
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Eastern Orthodox
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes

Lamb

God's Lil Lamb
Community Team
Administrator
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
32,649
Age
57
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
When does it end?

Philippians 1:6 For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
 
Top Bottom