Sheep stealing

George

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I know this might get heated but I wanted to discuss this and bring it up. Why do some resort to sheep stealing and do not find any wrong in it?
 

Rens

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Maybe because noone bought or owns the sheep anyway and they can choose to leave if they do not agree? I watch out with calling someone a sheep thief. We have one man here. First there was a big church with churches through the whole country. Then he had a leadership function and did not agree. He started his own church. Lot of people went with him. Then later that happened to him a few times, but you just need to hear 2 sides of the story. It is bad when there is no unity, but like with a divorce, mostly both parties are to blame. It's stupid from a pastor to just let someone you don't know preach and lead. But was that person on purpose being an Absalom who wanted people for himself for the fame and the money and to build his own kingdom or was it like Paul who seperated his disciples? What I saw was for instance a very bossy apostle, that man who started his own church and then it happened to him. He as the only one got paid and his pastors could work for free. Then they got sick of it, started their own thing and most people, because they mostly preached and took care of them, went with them. People picked sides.
 

Rens

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I think it happens because people are not focused on the harvest. Why on earth would you try to get people from other churches to your church, when there are so many who aren't even saved and you could fill your church with them and ask the other churches to help you, because they are so many.
 

psalms 91

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Stealing shep is wrong but if the person decides to go on their own then that is not stealing. I dont see a lot of that in fact in my area it seems nonexistant, many do not even go to a church
 

Rens

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It's not stealing, but we had it a lot in the past. If you start a new church you automatically get church hoppers from other churches who do not agree with the leader. Then after a while they left again and they always caused a lot of trouble. Now I'm more like: please stay away LOL.
 

Lamb

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Jesus is the shepherd of all the sheep. :)

I suppose I don't see any wrong in sheep going from pasture to pasture because God might be placing them there for a certain need. I hated it that my daughter went to a different church when she was younger (she visited mine as well A LOT) but God used her to share the Gospel with a room full of frightened kids who thought they were going to hell. Then I understood the reason God allowed her to be at a different church for a certain time. He put her there and used her to comfort others with His joy and peace of salvation.
 

psalms 91

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The key is hearing Gods voice and following His leading, doing our own thing is never acceptable
 

meluckycharms

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I know this might get heated but I wanted to discuss this and bring it up. Why do some resort to sheep stealing and do not find any wrong in it?
I don't think "sheep stealing" is appropriate. However, one logical explanation as to why some find it acceptable is that some denominations feel so strongly about their theology that they are afraid for the souls others. Take for example the Roman Catholic Church. I know quite a few protestants who truly believe that Catholics are so mislead that their salvation is in question. There are also churches who send missions trips to convert Catholics to Protestant ism. So they don't see it as "stealing sheep", they see it as rescuing sheep from wolves in shepherd's clothes.
 

Josiah

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I know this might get heated but I wanted to discuss this and bring it up. Why do some resort to sheep stealing and do not find any wrong in it?


If sheep can be stolen, then they were never the sheep of another.....


MANY of us have changed our faith community (I from Catholic to Lutheran). No one "stole" me.... my 'exit' took years. I can post here my reasons for that (and the process thereof) but it was between my Catholic teachers and myself, it was largely my discomfort with the egoism, individualism and rejection of accountability I was taught and had defended in and by that denomination, and my inability to stated that I docilicly swallowed whatever that singular individual denomination said BECUASE it itself alone now says it. I thus could not be Catholic. I felt much more pushed out than lead out. And after I was, I looked for a community very much LIKE Catholicism. I suspect most here at CH are like me - a convert from/to. We all have our individual stories, but I think rarely are the stories about someone who "stole" them out of something they were very pleased and comfortable and active in.


Sadly, among my friends and co-workers, few are Christians (active or even at all). SOME (I'd say half - maybe a bit more) have SOME history with Christianity but have left. Others were never "churched" (although they may have considered themselves "Christian" when they were a child). WHEN I CAN, I try to work within THEIR culture/history/roots for those who ONCE were churched. For example, a couple of years ago, in spite of SO MUCH wanted to attend my own church, I went to Christmas Eve services at a Catholic Church perhaps an hours' drive away because a co-worker had ONCE been active in the RCC and in a discussion, mentioned how much she loved the Christmas Eve services at her RCC church when she was a kid. I saw an opening...... but knew my encouraging her to go would be fruitless (especially since she no longer knew any active Catholics to go with). So I said I'd pick her up, I'd go with her, I'd sit with her (with her 3 kids). It took some arm twisting but she agreed. I'm still ministering to her... encouraging her to "reconnect." I LEFT that denomination but that was MY choice for MY reasons (none I see she shares)..... so my effort is to encourage a return to HER church.

In a way, my ecclesology permits this since I see the church as US - the whole corpus of His people, Christians, believers - not some institutional denomination (mine, included).



My half cent.


- Josiah


.
 

Rens

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When my ex just started a church I went to a conference somewhere else and a guy from the former church came up to me, he didn't know we were dating, and said: Are you going to that church from Jim? You have to watch out with him. I heard he steals sheep.
Lol because 4 people came over from another church. We didn't even know them or invite them.
Somehow whenever I hear 'steal sheep' I have to think about that clip from Louis de Funes, although it's a chicken thief. I had to laugh so hard when he told me. I couldn't stop. Lol a guy from our church who was also there: you shouldn't talk to him. He's talking bad about the pastor. Oh please, who cares? It was funny, I had a real good laugh. He would hear it years later from me still: Watch out with Jim! He steals sheep hahahahahahahaha.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x81vw7_le-gendarme-et-le-voleur-de-poules_fun
 

visionary

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Now a Muslim would consider any Muslim who drops his faith for another, the ultimate in sheep stealing crimes, and both "victim" and preacher are to blame.
 

tango

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I know this might get heated but I wanted to discuss this and bring it up. Why do some resort to sheep stealing and do not find any wrong in it?

I'm assuming that by "sheep stealing" you're talking about churches trying to draw people away from other churches?

I can't say it's something I've personally witnessed. The churches I've attended have generally taken the view that I'm free to attend for as long as I want and free to leave whenever I want. On that basis I can't be "stolen" because I never belonged to them in the first place. If a church ceases to meet my needs I look for another church that does, although typically when I settle in a church it's because I've concluded it does meet my needs and I'm unlikely to take the decision to leave lightly.

I suppose it's easier to offer more smoke and mirrors, more glitz, more doodads, to existing Christians than it is to go out and make new ones. But Jesus didn't tell us to go from church to church drawing people away with fancy lights and stuff.
 

psalms 91

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I agree, that I have not witnesseed sheep stealing, so many around here that dont go to church, no need to
 

Josiah

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The "Coming Home" campaign in the RC Denomination (promoted by ETWN for example) would be an example of what I'D call "sheep stealing" since the effort is aimed at those active in Protestant churches, converting them to their denomination. It seems that effort is not significant and, IMO, is simply ignoring the gushing that's happening in that denomination (and most others). Today, "sheep stealing" seems to be limited to those denominations with the egotistical eccelesology of insisting that it itself exclusively IS the church (RCC, LDS, JW, etc.).

But as a whole, I think "sheep stealing" is not generally the focus. I'm sure it was decades ago when there were many large churches in every town, when nearly everyone considered himself a Christian and was at least associated with a congregation (if not active there); back THEN, the message would be "we're BETTER than they" (perhaps "sheep stealing" - although I don't think sheep CAN be taken if they are active and happy with their church). But now, I think the focus is on the great many who are not in any church, who are either not Christian or not churched. I think most Christians (certainly me included) are THRILLED if people are active in any church!



Pax Christi


- Josiah
 

George

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I don't think "sheep stealing" is appropriate. However, one logical explanation as to why some find it acceptable is that some denominations feel so strongly about their theology that they are afraid for the souls others. Take for example the Roman Catholic Church. I know quite a few protestants who truly believe that Catholics are so mislead that their salvation is in question. There are also churches who send missions trips to convert Catholics to Protestant ism. So they don't see it as "stealing sheep", they see it as rescuing sheep from wolves in shepherd's clothes.


This is what I'm talking about. Good to see you around meluckycharms. :)
 
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