Does Satan give power to men?

[Cassia]

That sounds like the (convoluted) primary plot of Star Wars.

A case of truth being stranger than fiction ^_^

 

[TubbyTubby]

A case of truth being stranger than fiction ^_^

Or maybe simply fiction is just fiction and truth is elsewhere if Occam's razor be applied. Don't you ever, just once, wonder why you never see gods, angels or demons floating around you?

Do you never feel like you want to question yourself about mythical based creatures? Can you even tell me what a 'god' is?

 

[Lamb]

Or maybe simply fiction is just fiction and truth is elsewhere if Occam's razor be applied. Don't you ever, just once, wonder why you never see gods, angels or demons floating around you?

Do you never feel like you want to question yourself about mythical based creatures? Can you even tell me what a 'god' is?

Perhaps some of us have seen angels and demons. It's just that people don't want to now about them.

 

[visionary]

Or maybe simply fiction is just fiction and truth is elsewhere if Occam's razor be applied. Don't you ever, just once, wonder why you never see gods, angels or demons floating around you?

Do you never feel like you want to question yourself about mythical based creatures? Can you even tell me what a 'god' is?

They can be seen when they want to be. I went to pick up a young lady in a bad family situation so that she could go to church. When I arrived, the girl ran out of the house, with her mother's permission, to get into the car. The old sister, evil to the core, came running out after her, cursing, and threatening, but she stopped short. She continued to rant on and on .. about how she was going to kill me. I thought it was strange that she came no further and prayed to God asking why. God opened my eyes to see two angels on each side of her blocking her way, so that she could go no further. We quietly went to church praising God.

That is not the only time I have seen angels, both evil and good. There is nothing mystical about them.

 

[TubbyTubby]

They can be seen when they want to be. I went to pick up a young lady in a bad family situation so that she could go to church. When I arrived, the girl ran out of the house, with her mother's permission, to get into the car. The old sister, evil to the core, came running out after her, cursing, and threatening, but she stopped short. She continued to rant on and on .. about how she was going to kill me. I thought it was strange that she came no further and prayed to God asking why. God opened my eyes to see two angels on each side of her blocking her way, so that she could go no further. We quietly went to church praising God.

That is not the only time I have seen angels, both evil and good. There is nothing mystical about them.

With all respect, unevidenced personal experience means little to me. The mind can do strange things under cognitive bias.

Why don't I see angels around me when I'm in a tricky situation?

Can anyone explain to me what a 'god' is?

 

[TubbyTubby]

Perhaps some of us have seen angels and demons. It's just that people don't want to now about them.

So what's the pre-requisite for being able to see angels and demons? Is it just believing in them beforehand?

 

[Cassia]

Or maybe simply fiction is just fiction and truth is elsewhere if Occam's razor be applied. Don't you ever, just once, wonder why you never see gods, angels or demons floating around you?

Do you never feel like you want to question yourself about mythical based creatures? Can you even tell me what a 'god' is?

Whatever ... and I say that with no malise because it's a waste of time to explain to someone who isn't listening :0 God bless

 

[TubbyTubby]

Whatever ... and I say that with no malise because it's a waste of time to explain to someone who isn't listening :0 God bless

Not a problem for me, just wondering whether you ever critically think about whether angels and demons and gods exist?

I'm listening, what is a 'god'?

 

[psalms 91]

So what's the pre-requisite for being able to see angels and demons? Is it just believing in them beforehand?

I gaurantee you will see them if not now then when you pass

 

[Rens]

So what's the pre-requisite for being able to see angels and demons? Is it just believing in them beforehand?

No, I think some people are more susceptible. I never saw them and I don't want to see them.

 

[Rens]

Not a problem for me, just wondering whether you ever critically think about whether angels and demons and gods exist?

I'm listening, what is a 'god'?

There's only one God and to make it easier for us He became Man.
If Jesus walked around raising the dead and healing everyone and popping arms out, would you reconsider it that He doesn't exist?
I can't believe there were atheists around Him when He was on earth. The reason they exist now is that the church doesn't believe and do the same works as Jesus. I want to pop an arm out from my boss's girlfriend, but I'm too chicken and there's unbelief.

 

[TubbyTubby]

I gaurantee you will see them if not now then when you pass

You can't guarantee that though can you Bill? The promise of an afterlife has its origins in our ancient past as we began to become self aware. Trying to explain why we die was a major puzzle that needed an answer and it was answered thousands upon thousands of times with many religions in our history. You just happen to have taken on one of the most current popular religions and its relatively modern (<1800-1900 years) versions of events.

There are still thousands of gods and versions of 'heaven and hell' being followed around the world even now, how could I be sure that if I proclaimed your particular god as the real one I had made the right choice? How are you convinced that not praying to Brahma or Shiva won't spare you from the hellfires of Naraka?

Seems like an atheist has only slightly worse odds of visiting hell than any theist alive today.

 

[TubbyTubby]

There's only one God and to make it easier for us He became Man.

That's just it though, there isn't just one god, there's thousands of 'em.

 

[psalms 91]

For me just one, pharoah had that idea and I think Moses showed him who was the real God

 

[Lamb]

Staff Notice: Please, let's get this thread back on topic. You can begin your discussion in a new thread.

 

[psalms 91]

In short yes satan has the ability to empower men

 

[Stravinsk]

An interesting point is what Bill has brought to attention - that of the Devil's temptation to Yeshua to give him the "kingdoms of the world" (Matthew 8:4), if only Yeshua would bow and worship him.

Does the Devil rule them and is his offer backed by some real power? Or is it an empty boast, a lie?

If it is true, or partly true in the sense of influence, then it would fit the narrative of many failed Kings (including David, who misused his power) of the Bible, and many of the abuses of Kings throughout history.

Yeshua rejects the offer and responds with the Law - worship God and serve Him only.

This narrative of rejecting earthly or delegated "authority" to men is very prevalent in the Bible, from the words of Yeshua, to the moral of the story of the first King of Israel - Saul, to Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego's rejection of "authority" in favor of submitting to God, through prophets who rebuked Kings, through Daniel and his men's rejection of the "King's meats" in favor of a diet that made all of them healthier...the list goes on.

And then we come to Saul/Paul - who so many Xians just love to quote. His writings on this subject are the exact opposite on all fronts. For him, it's ALL about delegated authority - first to himself and his so called revelations, and through his teachings on earthly "spiritual" authority of pastors/deacons/priests etc - and governmental authorities (Romans 13).

But many people love delegated man made authority for some reason. And always have. One might say this started with the story of the Garden of Eden. And it's first political implementation - the rejection of God in favor of the first King of Israel - Saul.

 

[visionary]

An interesting point is what Bill has brought to attention - that of the Devil's temptation to Yeshua to give him the "kingdoms of the world" (Matthew 8:4), if only Yeshua would bow and worship him.

Does the Devil rule them and is his offer backed by some real power? Or is it an empty boast, a lie?

If it is true, or partly true in the sense of influence, then it would fit the narrative of many failed Kings (including David, who misused his power) of the Bible, and many of the abuses of Kings throughout history.

Yeshua rejects the offer and responds with the Law - worship God and serve Him only.

This narrative of rejecting earthly or delegated "authority" to men is very prevalent in the Bible, from the words of Yeshua, to the moral of the story of the first King of Israel - Saul, to Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego's rejection of "authority" in favor of submitting to God, through prophets who rebuked Kings, through Daniel and his men's rejection of the "King's meats" in favor of a diet that made all of them healthier...the list goes on.

And then we come to Saul/Paul - who so many Xians just love to quote. His writings on this subject are the exact opposite on all fronts. For him, it's ALL about delegated authority - first to himself and his so called revelations, and through his teachings on earthly "spiritual" authority of pastors/deacons/priests etc - and governmental authorities (Romans 13).

But many people love delegated man made authority for some reason. And always have. One might say this started with the story of the Garden of Eden. And it's first political implementation - the rejection of God in favor of the first King of Israel - Saul.

The power comes in "the submission" of the people to Satan's rule. Satan was saying that he can get people to "submit to Him" if Yeshua would bow down and worship him. So it is today, all the kingdoms of the world are joining together through war, warmongering, religion, pharmacy, political powers, and financial mega conglomerate controls of all of the above.

 

[Stravinsk]

The power comes in "the submission" of the people to Satan's rule. Satan was saying that he can get people to "submit to Him" if Yeshua would bow down and worship him. So it is today, all the kingdoms of the world are joining together through war, warmongering, religion, pharmacy, political powers, and financial mega conglomerate controls of all of the above.

Hmm. I see have misquoted the passage. It's Matthew 4:8-10, not Matthew 8:4.

Regarding your quote, I don't see anything like that in the passage. Either the Devil is lying about "owning" the "kingdoms of the world" (the only scenario where he could hand over "rule" to Yeshua), or he does not. My thoughts are based on the assumption that he does, and that Yeshua rejects the offer. In my mind it seems to have biblical precedence, if we follow the line in biblical terms. Politically - Saul was the first King of Israel, and so the namesake comes into play. A King, with a King-dom. A rule by man. God told Samuel all the horrible things Saul would do, and He said that the very act of Israel choosing a King to rule over them indicated that they had rejected God as their King. With King Saul's rule came slavery of the people. Even the "good" kings (like David) has their screw ups - misusing their power for their own ends.

In non-biblical secular terms, history also bears this out with modern Kings. Or oligarchs.

To me, the point of this passage and the many other stories that it relates to are clear - slavery of some sort or another comes with the submission to delegated authority which men seek, often for their own ends, and even sometimes when their motive for seeking it is altruistic. As the saying goes - Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. It is true in biblical terms, it is true in secular terms and it is true personally. I'm no stranger to wanting power, and I also know that some of my worst moments involve seeking it or getting it.

 

[psalms 91]

satan indeed has influence and in some cases control over the areas of earth so his offer was genuine