The law in the gospel.

TubbyTubby

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I'll stick around as long as you'll have me and talk about whatever you like. If I come across as rude then it's not intended. I have a problem with all religions but never on a personal level. Love the victim, hate the indoctrination.

In fact, I'm looking forward to hear views from a Christian forum. The atheist forums get a bit samey after a while.
 
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psalms 91

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I am curious how you arrived at being an athiest if you dont mind me asking
 

TubbyTubby

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I am curious how you arrived at being an athiest if you dont mind me asking
Religions or gods were never introduced to me by my parents or others. That would explain it I suppose
 

TubbyTubby

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Oh and I was born atheist of course.
 

Lamb

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Fair enough. Not relevant unless you buy into the stories as real though. Just seems like poetic waffle from a bygone age to me.


Welcome to the site. This particular section of Christianity Haven is for Christians Only, but there are other parts of the site you will be able to participate in (respectfully of course). Here is one forum on here that you might be interested in :

World Religion & Speculative Theology

Forum for all members to discuss any theology.
 

TubbyTubby

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Welcome to the site. This particular section of Christianity Haven is for Christians Only, but there are other parts of the site you will be able to participate in (respectfully of course). Here is one forum on here that you might be interested in :

World Religion & Speculative Theology

Forum for all members to discuss any theology.

Noted. I'm no good at theology to be fair but I'll try to stay within the boundaries.
 

MoreCoffee

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Fair enough. Not relevant unless you buy into the stories as real though. Just seems like poetic waffle from a bygone age to me.

Buying into the stories as real is part of what faith is. But we have two thousand years Christians carefully reading and interpreting the bible and their careful analysis also plays a part in forming Christian faith.
 

MoreCoffee

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I'll stick around as long as you'll have me and talk about whatever you like. If I come across as rude then it's not intended. I have a problem with all religions but never on a personal level. Love the victim, hate the indoctrination.

In fact, I'm looking forward to hear views from a Christian forum. The atheist forums get a bit samey after a while.

The sameness is also present in Christian forums but it will be a different sameness from the sameness of an atheist forum.
 

visionary

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13445515_1176881102333695_3531296353198105147_n.jpg
 

pinacled

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1My son, if you have stood surety for your fellow, have given your hand for a stranger, אבְּנִי אִם עָרַבְתָּ לְרֵעֶךָ תָּקַעְתָּ לַזָּר כַּפֶּיךָ:
2you have been trapped by the sayings of your mouth; you have been caught by the sayings of your mouth. בנוֹקַשְׁתָּ בְאִמְרֵי פִיךָ נִלְכַּדְתָּ בְּאִמְרֵי פִיךָ:
3Do this then, my son, and be saved for you have come into your fellow's palm; go, humble yourself and give your fellow superiority. געֲשֵֹה זֹאת אֵפוֹא בְּנִי וְהִנָּצֵל כִּי בָאתָ בְכַף רֵעֶךָ לֵךְ הִתְרַפֵּס וּרְהַב רֵעֶיךָ:
4Give no sleep to your eyes nor slumber to your eyelids. דאַל תִּתֵּן שֵׁנָה לְעֵינֶיךָ וּתְנוּמָה לְעַפְעַפֶּיךָ:
5Save yourself like a deer from the hand and like a bird from the hand of the snare. ההִנָּצֵל כִּצְבִי מִיָּד וּכְצִפּוֹר מִיַּד יָקוּשׁ:
6Go to the ant, you sluggard; see her ways and become wise, ולֵךְ אֶל נְמָלָה עָצֵל רְאֵה דְרָכֶיהָ וַחֲכָם:
7for she has no chief, overseer, or ruler; זאֲשֶׁר אֵין לָהּ קָצִין שֹׁטֵר וּמשֵׁל:
8yet she prepares her bread in the summer; she gathers her food in the harvest. חתָּכִין בַּקַּיִץ לַחְמָהּ אָגְרָה בַקָּצִיר מַאֲכָלָהּ:
9O lazy one, how long will you lie [there]; when will you get up from your sleep? טעַד מָתַי עָצֵל תִּשְׁכָּב מָתַי תָּקוּם מִשְּׁנָתֶךָ:
10"A little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to lie." ימְעַט שֵׁנוֹת מְעַט תְּנוּמוֹת מְעַט חִבֻּק יָדַיִם לִשְׁכָּב:
11And your poverty shall come like a fast walker and your want as an armed man. יאוּבָא כִמְהַלֵּךְ רֵאשֶׁךָ וּמַחְסֹרְךָ כְּאִישׁ מָגֵן:
12An unscrupulous man, a man of violence, walks with a crooked mouth; יבאָדָם בְּלִיַּעַל אִישׁ אָוֶן הוֹלֵךְ עִקְּשׁוּת פֶּה:
13he winks with his eyes, shuffles with his feet, points with his fingers. יגקֹרֵץ בְּעֵינָו מֹלֵל בְּרַגְלָו מֹרֶה בְּאֶצְבְּעֹתָיו:
14Contrariness is in his heart; he plots evil at all times; he incites quarrels. ידתַּהְפֻּכוֹת בְּלִבּוֹ חֹרֵשׁ רָע בְּכָל עֵת מִדֳנִים מִדְיָנִים יְשַׁלֵּחַ:
15Therefore, calamity shall come suddenly; he shall suddenly be broken beyond repair. טועַל כֵּן פִּתְאֹם יָבוֹא אֵידוֹ פֶּתַע יִשָּׁבֵר וְאֵין מַרְפֵּא:
16There are six things that the Lord hates, and the seventh is an abomination of His soul; טזשֶׁשׁ הֵנָּה שָׂנֵא יְהוָה וְשֶׁבַע תּוֹעֲבַות תּוֹעֲבַת נַפְשׁוֹ:
17Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood; יזעֵינַיִם רָמוֹת לְשׁוֹן שָׁקֶר וְיָדַיִם שֹׁפְכוֹת דָּם נָקִי:
18a heart that thinks thoughts of violence; feet that hasten to run to evil; יחלֵב חֹרֵשׁ מַחְשְׁבוֹת אָוֶן רַגְלַיִם מְמַהֲרוֹת לָרוּץ לָרָעָה:
19[one who] speaks lies with false testimony and incites quarrels among brothers. יטיָפִיחַ כְּזָבִים עֵד שָׁקֶר וּמְשַׁלֵּחַ מְדָנִים בֵּין אַחִים:
20My son, keep the commands of your father, and do not forsake the instruction of your mother. כנְצֹר בְּנִי מִצְוַת אָבִיךָ וְאַל תִּטּשׁ תּוֹרַת אִמֶּךָ:
21Bind them always upon your heart, tie them upon your neck. כאקָשְׁרֵם עַל לִבְּךָ תָמִיד עָנְדֵם עַל גַּרְגְּרֹתֶךָ:
22When you walk, it shall lead you; when you lie down, it shall guard you, and when you awaken, it shall speak for you. כבבְּהִתְהַלֶּכְךָ תַּנְחֶה אֹתָךְ בְּשָׁכְבְּךָ תִּשְׁמֹר עָלֶיךָ וַהֲקִיצוֹתָ הִיא תְשִׂיחֶךָ:

23For a commandment is a candle, and the Torah is light, and disciplining rebukes are the way of life; כגכִּי נֵר מִצְוָה וְתוֹרָה אוֹר וְדֶרֶךְ חַיִּים תּוֹכְחוֹת מוּסָר:

24to guard you from an evil woman, from the smoothness of the alien tongue. כדלִשְׁמָרְךָ מֵאֵשֶׁת רָע מֵחֶלְקַת לָשׁוֹן נָכְרִיָּה:

25Do not covet her beauty in your heart, and do not let her captivate you with her eyelids. כהאַל תַּחְמֹד יָפְיָהּ בִּלְבָבֶךָ וְאַל תִּקָּחֲךָ בְּעַפְעַפֶּיהָ:

26Because a man is brought to a loaf of bread for a harlot, and a married woman will hunt a precious soul. כוכִּי בְעַד אִשָּׁה זוֹנָה עַד כִּכַּר לָחֶם וְאֵשֶׁת אִישׁ נֶפֶשׁ יְקָרָה תָצוּד:

27Can a man rake embers with his skirt without burning his clothes? כזהֲיַחְתֶּה אִישׁ אֵשׁ בְּחֵיקוֹ וּבְגָדָיו לֹא תִשָּׂרַפְנָה:
28Or can a man walk on live coals without scorching his feet? כחאִם יְהַלֵּךְ אִישׁ עַל הַגֶּחָלִים וְרַגְלָיו לֹא תִכָּוֶינָה:
29So is he who goes in to his neighbor's wife; no one who touches her will go unpunished. כטכֵּן הַבָּא אֶל אֵשֶׁת רֵעֵהוּ לֹא יִנָּקֶה כָּל הַנֹּגֵעַ בָּהּ:
30They will not despise a thief if he steals to sate his appetite, for he is hungry. ללֹא יָבוּזוּ לַגַּנָּב כִּי יִגְנוֹב לְמַלֵּא נַפְשׁוֹ כִּי יִרְעָב:
31And if he is found, he will pay sevenfold; he must give all he owns. לאוְנִמְצָא יְשַׁלֵּם שִׁבְעָתָיִם אֶת כָּל הוֹן בֵּיתוֹ יִתֵּן:
32One who commits adultery with a woman is devoid of sense; one who would destroy his soul-he will do it. לבנֹאֵף אִשָּׁה חֲסַר לֵב מַשְׁחִית נַפְשׁוֹ הוּא יַעֲשֶֹנָּה:
33He will find wounds and disgrace, and his reproach shall not be erased לגנֶגַע וְקָלוֹן יִמְצָא וְחֶרְפָּתוֹ לֹא תִמָּחֶה:
34for jealousy [shall arouse] the husband's wrath, and he will not have pity on the day of vengeance. לדכִּי קִנְאָה חֲמַת גָּבֶר וְלֹא יַחְמוֹל בְּיוֹם נָקָם:
35He will not have regard for any ransom, neither will he consent though you give him many bribes. להלֹא יִשָּׂא פְּנֵי כָל כֹּפֶר וְלֹא יֹאבֶה כִּי תַרְבֶּה שֹׁחַד:








Acts 21. Law in the Gospel


8 And the next day we that were of Paul's company departed, and came unto Caesarea: and we entered into the house of Philip the evangelist, which was one of the seven; and abode with him.

9 And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy.

23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;
 
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Alithis

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1My son, if you have stood surety for your fellow, have given your hand for a stranger, אבְּנִי אִם עָרַבְתָּ לְרֵעֶךָ תָּקַעְתָּ לַזָּר כַּפֶּיךָ:
2you have been trapped by the sayings of your mouth; you have been caught by the sayings of your mouth. בנוֹקַשְׁתָּ בְאִמְרֵי פִיךָ נִלְכַּדְתָּ בְּאִמְרֵי פִיךָ:
3Do this then, my son, and be saved for you have come into your fellow's palm; go, humble yourself and give your fellow superiority. געֲשֵֹה זֹאת אֵפוֹא בְּנִי וְהִנָּצֵל כִּי בָאתָ בְכַף רֵעֶךָ לֵךְ הִתְרַפֵּס וּרְהַב רֵעֶיךָ:
4Give no sleep to your eyes nor slumber to your eyelids. דאַל תִּתֵּן שֵׁנָה לְעֵינֶיךָ וּתְנוּמָה לְעַפְעַפֶּיךָ:
5Save yourself like a deer from the hand and like a bird from the hand of the snare. ההִנָּצֵל כִּצְבִי מִיָּד וּכְצִפּוֹר מִיַּד יָקוּשׁ:
6Go to the ant, you sluggard; see her ways and become wise, ולֵךְ אֶל נְמָלָה עָצֵל רְאֵה דְרָכֶיהָ וַחֲכָם:
7for she has no chief, overseer, or ruler; זאֲשֶׁר אֵין לָהּ קָצִין שֹׁטֵר וּמשֵׁל:
8yet she prepares her bread in the summer; she gathers her food in the harvest. חתָּכִין בַּקַּיִץ לַחְמָהּ אָגְרָה בַקָּצִיר מַאֲכָלָהּ:
9O lazy one, how long will you lie [there]; when will you get up from your sleep? טעַד מָתַי עָצֵל תִּשְׁכָּב מָתַי תָּקוּם מִשְּׁנָתֶךָ:
10"A little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to lie." ימְעַט שֵׁנוֹת מְעַט תְּנוּמוֹת מְעַט חִבֻּק יָדַיִם לִשְׁכָּב:
11And your poverty shall come like a fast walker and your want as an armed man. יאוּבָא כִמְהַלֵּךְ רֵאשֶׁךָ וּמַחְסֹרְךָ כְּאִישׁ מָגֵן:
12An unscrupulous man, a man of violence, walks with a crooked mouth; יבאָדָם בְּלִיַּעַל אִישׁ אָוֶן הוֹלֵךְ עִקְּשׁוּת פֶּה:
13he winks with his eyes, shuffles with his feet, points with his fingers. יגקֹרֵץ בְּעֵינָו מֹלֵל בְּרַגְלָו מֹרֶה בְּאֶצְבְּעֹתָיו:
14Contrariness is in his heart; he plots evil at all times; he incites quarrels. ידתַּהְפֻּכוֹת בְּלִבּוֹ חֹרֵשׁ רָע בְּכָל עֵת מִדֳנִים מִדְיָנִים יְשַׁלֵּחַ:
15Therefore, calamity shall come suddenly; he shall suddenly be broken beyond repair. טועַל כֵּן פִּתְאֹם יָבוֹא אֵידוֹ פֶּתַע יִשָּׁבֵר וְאֵין מַרְפֵּא:
16There are six things that the Lord hates, and the seventh is an abomination of His soul; טזשֶׁשׁ הֵנָּה שָׂנֵא יְהוָה וְשֶׁבַע תּוֹעֲבַות תּוֹעֲבַת נַפְשׁוֹ:
17Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood; יזעֵינַיִם רָמוֹת לְשׁוֹן שָׁקֶר וְיָדַיִם שֹׁפְכוֹת דָּם נָקִי:
18a heart that thinks thoughts of violence; feet that hasten to run to evil; יחלֵב חֹרֵשׁ מַחְשְׁבוֹת אָוֶן רַגְלַיִם מְמַהֲרוֹת לָרוּץ לָרָעָה:
19[one who] speaks lies with false testimony and incites quarrels among brothers. יטיָפִיחַ כְּזָבִים עֵד שָׁקֶר וּמְשַׁלֵּחַ מְדָנִים בֵּין אַחִים:
20My son, keep the commands of your father, and do not forsake the instruction of your mother. כנְצֹר בְּנִי מִצְוַת אָבִיךָ וְאַל תִּטּשׁ תּוֹרַת אִמֶּךָ:
21Bind them always upon your heart, tie them upon your neck. כאקָשְׁרֵם עַל לִבְּךָ תָמִיד עָנְדֵם עַל גַּרְגְּרֹתֶךָ:
22When you walk, it shall lead you; when you lie down, it shall guard you, and when you awaken, it shall speak for you. כבבְּהִתְהַלֶּכְךָ תַּנְחֶה אֹתָךְ בְּשָׁכְבְּךָ תִּשְׁמֹר עָלֶיךָ וַהֲקִיצוֹתָ הִיא תְשִׂיחֶךָ:

23For a commandment is a candle, and the Torah is light, and disciplining rebukes are the way of life; כגכִּי נֵר מִצְוָה וְתוֹרָה אוֹר וְדֶרֶךְ חַיִּים תּוֹכְחוֹת מוּסָר:

24to guard you from an evil woman, from the smoothness of the alien tongue. כדלִשְׁמָרְךָ מֵאֵשֶׁת רָע מֵחֶלְקַת לָשׁוֹן נָכְרִיָּה:

25Do not covet her beauty in your heart, and do not let her captivate you with her eyelids. כהאַל תַּחְמֹד יָפְיָהּ בִּלְבָבֶךָ וְאַל תִּקָּחֲךָ בְּעַפְעַפֶּיהָ:

26Because a man is brought to a loaf of bread for a harlot, and a married woman will hunt a precious soul. כוכִּי בְעַד אִשָּׁה זוֹנָה עַד כִּכַּר לָחֶם וְאֵשֶׁת אִישׁ נֶפֶשׁ יְקָרָה תָצוּד:

27Can a man rake embers with his skirt without burning his clothes? כזהֲיַחְתֶּה אִישׁ אֵשׁ בְּחֵיקוֹ וּבְגָדָיו לֹא תִשָּׂרַפְנָה:
28Or can a man walk on live coals without scorching his feet? כחאִם יְהַלֵּךְ אִישׁ עַל הַגֶּחָלִים וְרַגְלָיו לֹא תִכָּוֶינָה:
29So is he who goes in to his neighbor's wife; no one who touches her will go unpunished. כטכֵּן הַבָּא אֶל אֵשֶׁת רֵעֵהוּ לֹא יִנָּקֶה כָּל הַנֹּגֵעַ בָּהּ:
30They will not despise a thief if he steals to sate his appetite, for he is hungry. ללֹא יָבוּזוּ לַגַּנָּב כִּי יִגְנוֹב לְמַלֵּא נַפְשׁוֹ כִּי יִרְעָב:
31And if he is found, he will pay sevenfold; he must give all he owns. לאוְנִמְצָא יְשַׁלֵּם שִׁבְעָתָיִם אֶת כָּל הוֹן בֵּיתוֹ יִתֵּן:
32One who commits adultery with a woman is devoid of sense; one who would destroy his soul-he will do it. לבנֹאֵף אִשָּׁה חֲסַר לֵב מַשְׁחִית נַפְשׁוֹ הוּא יַעֲשֶֹנָּה:
33He will find wounds and disgrace, and his reproach shall not be erased לגנֶגַע וְקָלוֹן יִמְצָא וְחֶרְפָּתוֹ לֹא תִמָּחֶה:
34for jealousy [shall arouse] the husband's wrath, and he will not have pity on the day of vengeance. לדכִּי קִנְאָה חֲמַת גָּבֶר וְלֹא יַחְמוֹל בְּיוֹם נָקָם:
35He will not have regard for any ransom, neither will he consent though you give him many bribes. להלֹא יִשָּׂא פְּנֵי כָל כֹּפֶר וְלֹא יֹאבֶה כִּי תַרְבֶּה שֹׁחַד:








Acts 21. Law in the Gospel


8 And the next day we that were of Paul's company departed, and came unto Caesarea: and we entered into the house of Philip the evangelist, which was one of the seven; and abode with him.

9 And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy.

23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;

I think it is generally accepted that the hebrew deciples continued in the practice
to which they were accustomed. And in thier new found liberty this is fully acceptable as long as they were not observing certain thing for the purpose of seeking to be justified from sin by those things.
The gentiles however knew not those customs and so neither practiced then noe were compelled to do so. (Except by some who sought to regain control of them.but these were opposed to the gospel)
 

pinacled

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I think it is generally accepted that the hebrew deciples continued in the practice
to which they were accustomed. And in thier new found liberty this is fully acceptable as long as they were not observing certain thing for the purpose of seeking to be justified from sin by those things.
The gentiles however knew not those customs and so neither practiced then noe were compelled to do so. (Except by some who sought to regain control of them.but these were opposed to the gospel)


The Law in the Gospel.

Have you learned the harvest yet?
I shared this in another forum in more detail.

Fruit of the Spirit.
Patience and Long suffering.

12 yrs the woman had an issue of blood.
 

pinacled

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The Law in the Gospel.

Have you learned the harvest yet?
I shared this in another forum in more detail.

Fruit of the Spirit.
Patience and Long suffering.

12 yrs the woman had an issue of blood.

My righteousness as filthy rags.
Luke 8:43-48King James Version (KJV)

+ And a woman having an issue of blood twelve years, which had spent all her living upon physicians, neither could be healed of any,

Came behind him, and touched the border of his garment: and immediately her issue of blood stanched.

+ And Jesus said, Who touched me? When all denied, Peter and they that were with him said, Master, the multitude throng thee and press thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?

+ And Jesus said, Somebody hath touched me: for I perceive that virtue is gone out of me.

+ And when the woman saw that she was not hid, she came trembling, and falling down before him, she declared unto him before all the people for what cause she had touched him, and how she was healed immediately.

+ And he said unto her, Daughter, be of good comfort: thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace.

The Hem of his Garment.
…33"You shall make on its hem pomegranates of blue and purple and scarlet material, all around on its hem, and bells of gold between them all around: 34a golden bell and a pomegranate, a golden bell and a pomegranate, all around on the hem of the robe. 35"It shall be on Aaron when he ministers; and its tinkling shall be heard when he enters and leaves the holy place before the LORD, so that he will not die.…


Fruit to carry through the Winter. So that your heart does not wax cold.
 

Alithis

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My righteousness as filthy rags.
Luke 8:43-48King James Version (KJV)

+ And a woman having an issue of blood twelve years, which had spent all her living upon physicians, neither could be healed of any,

Came behind him, and touched the border of his garment: and immediately her issue of blood stanched.

+ And Jesus said, Who touched me? When all denied, Peter and they that were with him said, Master, the multitude throng thee and press thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?

+ And Jesus said, Somebody hath touched me: for I perceive that virtue is gone out of me.

+ And when the woman saw that she was not hid, she came trembling, and falling down before him, she declared unto him before all the people for what cause she had touched him, and how she was healed immediately.

+ And he said unto her, Daughter, be of good comfort: thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace.

The Hem of his Garment.
…33"You shall make on its hem pomegranates of blue and purple and scarlet material, all around on its hem, and bells of gold between them all around: 34a golden bell and a pomegranate, a golden bell and a pomegranate, all around on the hem of the robe. 35"It shall be on Aaron when he ministers; and its tinkling shall be heard when he enters and leaves the holy place before the LORD, so that he will not die.…


Fruit to carry through the Winter. So that your heart does not wax cold.

not sure what your point is ? i agree with the law in the gospel ..those in christ are IN HIM who fulfilled the law and thus when we abde in him we too (through no means of our own .. fulfil the law . he makes us law abiders not law breakers

('tis good material you've presented in regard to the robes ..dont get me wrong )
 

popsthebuilder

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More importantly, why should ancient blather like 'Romans' be relevant to anyone in 2016?
Regardless of one's possible biases opinion; the honest attempt at unbiased reading of any core religious scripture can be quite revealing.

Do you consider it useless because it doesn't pertain strictly to the material? Do you believe in a spirit, soul, or the conscience?

I am honestly curious.

Lastly I ask kindly, that you do not come here with the intent to weaken the faith of others. It isn't comparable to theists coming on atheist sites because atheists in general take faith and religious endeavor as a joke, so speaking to them of the things of faith doesn't hurt them in any way. They are without belief and that isn't taken from them by the faithful who come to their place and talk. But for one to do the opposite can have detrimental effects on those of weak faith. I'm pretty sure you're aware of this which makes me question your motives for being here.

You received a robust welcome from many here. Do you now aim to belittle what those kind people believe out of your own pride and ignorance? If you don't understand something then fine; no one knows everything. If you think the beliefs of the faithful are laughable then okay; bring up your points differently though. If you want people to be receptive to your claims(whatever they may be) then first you'll have to present them in an unassuming, kind, humble manner. Otherwise none will here anything but the negative of what you mean.

Peace
Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
 

popsthebuilder

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Fair enough. Not relevant unless you buy into the stories as real though. Just seems like poetic waffle from a bygone age to me.
No, what is gathered generally is a moral code of sorts. And in no way must one consider the words in the bible to be painting a literal picture, in order to extract said moral direction.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
 

popsthebuilder

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Oh and I was born atheist of course.
No you weren't. You were born without a concept or understanding of what is relative or relevant. You weren't born with the belief that there is no GOD.

I was never indoctrinated either.

Can I ask how old you are?
I'm not insinuating anything; it's an honest question.



Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
 

TubbyTubby

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No you weren't. You were born without a concept or understanding of what is relative or relevant. You weren't born with the belief that there is no GOD.

I was never indoctrinated either.

Can I ask how old you are?
I'm not insinuating anything; it's an honest question.



Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

If I was born to parents in a remote outpost who had no concept of god then I would be unlikely to make one up myself. Generally, children take the god concept from their parents or other social circles.

I'm 48 years old.
 

TubbyTubby

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Regardless of one's possible biases opinion; the honest attempt at unbiased reading of any core religious scripture can be quite revealing.

Do you consider it useless because it doesn't pertain strictly to the material? Do you believe in a spirit, soul, or the conscience?

I am honestly curious.
Religious scripture appears to be ancient ancestors description of an ideology along with invented ideas that try to explain the world they lived in because they knew no better. If I look at Genesis from your favourite (plagiarised) book for instance, it's clear that none of it fits with our understanding of how we got here. It's romantic myth from thousands of years ago and I can't accept a story of a supernatural being magically bringing the world into existence and making man from dirt and woman from his rib. It just reads like fantasy to me.


I don't know how a spirit or soul is defined or what it actually is.
 
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