LAW and GOSPEL

Alithis

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I asked you once before to not use MY SPOUSE in any of your sick scenarios. Use your own wife. I'm done now replying to your posts since you continue to be disrespectful toward me.

No one used Your personal spouse for anything. I have used the same social example on a number of threads.it has never been in reference to your personal spouse.not ever . and you absolutley know that.
What you dont like is the point it makes.
Repentance is Not.. Going back and doing the same sin over and over.
It is not folllwing law to repent ..it is what God instructs all people to do in order to be saved. -repent! study the meaning of the word.. Change your mind,go the other way renew your thinking.. turn from.never does it denote to say sorry and keep right on doing it.
 

Alithis

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If your Bhatki Hindu "take" on this is correct, then there MUST be perfect people among us - those who have ceased to sin, who no longer can sin, folks never miss the mark ("sin"), who always hit the mark ("sinless"), who are perfect as much as God is is perfect, holy as much as God is holy, loving as much as Christ is loving... 24/7..... people who make Scripture lying when it says "NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one..... NO ONE is good except God exclusively..... or as John himself later says in that book, "If ANYONE claims to be without sin, he is a liar and deceives only himself." IF you view is correct, there either MUST be a lot of perfect people among us OR no one is in Christ, no one is a Christian, no one will go to heaven. Since you can't think of even one sinless person (evidently, not even yourself)..... well..... you've just condemned everyone to hell OR you simply have a confused, wrong view resulting from your PERSISTENT entangling of Law and Gospel.... you have simply chosen to promote the soteriology of Bhatki Hinduism.
I post the whole chapter og 1 john 3.. And you acuse me of hinduism ??? Lol really?

In whose name do you accuse the scriptures of promoting hinduism ?

But it is a false accusation of course.
And now
..i can ask you to stop posting in that accusatory style and stop asking irralevantquestionsover and over and stop misrepresenting my posts by only quoting one sentance from them..

Because in post 129 it has been stated by the mods as follows.
"If someone asks you to stop posting in some fashion or they don't like something when being posted to, then you should honor that request. It disrupts the thread when discussion has to stop to address something. Things can get heated in a good way when discussing, but bringing outside examples and other means aren't needed, especially when they've proved to be an issue before."

And now the rule must be applied to all (or retracted) otherwise it would be a most unjust. And bias ruling.

So.. Stop making false accusations about me,stop asking irrelavant repeated questions and stop misrepresenting my posts by only quoting bits out of them.
 
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Alithis

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the good news ..it is what GOSPEL means .. is that jesus came to set us free from sin and the death it results in.
the law is that which proves that we were sinners .

God has said in his word .. that if we turn away from our sin and unto him.. he will forgive us
that if we obey him and are baptised into the death of christ by being buried with him by baptism in water .., we will recieve the remission of our sin..

it is written he makes us a new creation
it is written he makes us the righteousness god in Christ JEsus
it is written the past ordinance of record against us is wiped away
it is written that sin ,that had dominion over us .., now shall not have dominion over us ..we are set free and thus told to NOT LET IT have dominion over us any more . it resides over only that which is now dead ..
but we, are made alive by the spirit of God .

the good news of Jesus is the message which tells us what to do to be saved ..
it tells us to repent ,be baptised and receive the holy Spirit .., it tells us to then endure in that repentant state and we will receive the end of our faith , even the salvation of our souls .it tel us that we will recieve that salvation when Chrsit is revealed at his coming .
it tells us that if we are not found enduring and abiding in obedience to him that we will not be among those he comes .


Therefore, with minds that are alert and fully sober, set your hope on the grace to be brought to you when Jesus Christ is revealed at his coming.
so we see that the grace is not yet brought to us .. we must endure until it is brought to us at his coming .

then there is this interesting sentence ... "Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth" .... so we see that since our sin is forgiven we then go on to purify ourselves ... (from our old way of life ) not go back into the filth of our sin . and how do we achieve that purifying of self ? as stated in the scripture .. 'by our obedience "-- there is no way nor form to ever escape obedience to God ..

He has set us free from sin for the very purpose that we do not live IN IT any more but live in righteousness .

the willful continuance of sin is a sign or an unrepentant heart .
as the scriptures state .. one who is born of god ( a new creation in chrsit ) does NOT continue in the practice of sin .. as they listen to and obey the holy spirit he leads them OUT for his nature in them cannot sin and so as we walk in him we too wil not continue to sin ,, but s=cease from it .

it has been argued with the misuse of the verse for all have sinned and go astray etc .. but that is speaking to those who had not yet heard the gospel or those who refused to obey it .

for this is what is said of those that hear and beleive and respond obediently to the good news of Jesus and are there by born a new ...
to these he says .. -"For “you were like sheep going astray,”[f] but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls."

that which was .. is no longer .. the old is gone the new has come .
just as the law of sin and death no longer applies to us -it is done away with for those that have died in christ .
so enslavement to sin no longer applies to us . for the one that was slave t sin had died in chrsit .
and the one now living is the one created new by the living Spirit of God who is perfect, holy ,righteous and cannot sin.

for this reason it is written ..
See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears,we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure.

Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.


these things are plainly written .. so it is so . because the word of god is truth.

when our reality does not match his word then our reality is a lie .. his word is NEVER a lie .
if we say it can't be so because of the reality we perceive around us ,, then we call god a liar and the truth is not in us .the very fact that the reality we knew before we came t chrsit does not match the word of God is proof that we were in sin and had sin.. and had gone astray ...every one of us .

but if our reality has not ,and is not ,ever changing to align with the truth of god's WORD ..then we remain in our sin .
for if we say" all continue to sin "which is in opposition to the word of god ..then we display our sin by opposing the word of god . but if we grasp by faith that which he has done for us then the sinful reality of lie and opposition is transformed to match the word of god and be trusting us as it is true in himself .

the carnal mind will never grasp these things . but our reality in sin is based upon a lie .. our reality in god is based upon truth himself .

and it remains true --No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

the good news remains very good news .. obey the gospel .. and you will be set absolutely free from sin in utterly every respect . you are not to .. and do not ever HAVE to sin.. .you are already made the righteousness of god in chrsit jesus when you believed and were buried with him into his death by baptism and raised again a new creation on christ , ....

so from here on if .. if you will not harden your heart by unbelief .. the nest time this world the devil and the desires of your OWN sinful flesh try to coerce you to do an act you KNOW is sinful - you can say .. NO for it is written i am a new creation in chrsit and i dont have to do that any more .. it would hurt the lord jesus whom i love i wil obey him and not you ... in chrsit the choice is returned to you ..the choice is yours and we will all be judges for what we DO.
whether we abide in him to obey him and thus show our love .. or whether we resist him and serve the flesh unto righteousness which leads to death .

such obedience is nothing to do with the law .. for the works of the law are listed .. they include slaughtering bulls and sheep and goats and doves and cutting the foreskin .. the works of the law are listed in exodus and deuteronomy .. but love and living for jesus .. doing good giving instead of coveting ,being faithful instead of committing adultery ,being trustworthy instead of stealing ets .. against these things there is no law . and these are the things the holy Spirit leads us to do .. so if we listen to abide in and obey the holy spirit we do things which have no law against them .. and we are thence forth .. no longer law breakers . no longer sinners ..

this is what the lord jesus has accomplished for is .. and it is good news .. we must obey the good news . it has been delivered to us so that we can obey it . for before it was given - we had no hope .
but now it has been given we have hope.. if we heed it .
 
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Josiah

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Post for us the full names of just 10 living persons (out of 7.3 BILLION - I'm only asking for 10 - a very, very, very tiny percentage!) who have ceased sin. Who always hit the mark and never miss the mark ("sin") and thus are always divinely, absolutely perfect, holy and loving.... just like God.... 24/7.... and thus have no need for mercy or forgiveness or the Gospel or the Cross or the Christ or the Savior or God because they have no sin. Just ten who prove Scripture lies with it says "NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one..... if ANYONE claims to BE without sin, he is a LIAR." Just ten that prove the whole foundation of Christianity is wrong and your promoting of the soteriology of Bhatki Hinduism is right.

Just ten. We're waiting.
 

Josiah

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I post the whole chapter og 1 john 3..

It doesn't state your foundational point: that some cease to sin. YOU say that. In your repudiation of the Gospel, your entangling of Law and Gospel, your promotion of the soteriology of Bhakti Hinduism.


No Scripture says we cease sinning. It says NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one. If ANYONE claims to be without sin, he is a LIAR. Scripture does tell us to not sin (LAW) but the Law does not cancel out, eliminate, destroy the GOSPEL and render Christ, the Cross a worthless joke and render God unfaithful to His promises.

Thus, your CONSTANT, perpetual rant in many different threads that Christians don't sin is not only unbiblical but of course obviously WRONG which is why you can't produce the name of even one - not even one person out of 7.3 BILLION living persons on the Planet Earth - who has ceased to sin, who never misses the mark ("sin") and thus always hits the mark (24/7, perfectly, absolutely) - proving your whole foundational theology to be wrong. And it also mandates that you dilutes or destroys both Law and Gospel (and thus Christianity) as you constantly does, promoting instead the soteriology of Bhakti Hinduism (we render ourselves such that NEED NO forgiveness, mercy, forgiveness, Gospel, Cross, Blood, Christ, Savior by adequately tapping divine HELP to cease sin).



Pax Soli Christi



- Josiah
 

Alithis

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It doesn't state your foundational point: that some cease to sin. YOU say that. In your repudiation of the Gospel, your entangling of Law and Gospel, your promotion of the soteriology of Bhakti Hinduism.


No Scripture says we cease sinning. It says NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one. If ANYONE claims to be without sin, he is a LIAR. Scripture does tell us to not sin (LAW) but the Law does not cancel out, eliminate, destroy the GOSPEL and render Christ, the Cross a worthless joke and render God unfaithful to His promises.

Thus, your CONSTANT, perpetual rant in many different threads that Christians don't sin is not only unbiblical but of course obviously WRONG which is why you can't produce the name of even one - not even one person out of 7.3 BILLION living persons on the Planet Earth - who has ceased to sin, who never misses the mark ("sin") and thus always hits the mark (24/7, perfectly, absolutely) - proving your whole foundational theology to be wrong. And it also mandates that you dilutes or destroys both Law and Gospel (and thus Christianity) as you constantly does, promoting instead the soteriology of Bhakti Hinduism (we render ourselves such that NEED NO forgiveness, mercy, forgiveness, Gospel, Cross, Blood, Christ, Savior by adequately tapping divine HELP to cease sin).



Pax Soli Christi



- Josiah

ok here we go again.. - you just said in the post listed here ..you words josiah "It doesn't state your foundational point: that some cease to sin. "
vs the word of God .. "No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.
.- yup that is what is written plainly AND UNambiguously . it is NOT MY WORDS ..your not opposing me josiah.-i never wrote it i never said it ..i'm just pointing out its there .
.so i now realise you are NOT accepting the scripture .. your personal experience is that you personally keep on sinning and so you seek to justify that by projecting the same god opposing reality onto others . but the bible also states if you keep on sinning you do not know god ... i understand it is difficult to face the truth , it is uncomfortable ,it is a sword it cuts to the heart .. but if you heed it ,it will separate flesh from spirit that we may NOW live in the spirit and not after the flesh nature .

here then is the difference .. i disagree with 'YOU" .. but you disagree with SCRIPTURE . i accept what the scripture says in every word of it .and where my life does not match the word of god i know my carnal life must be put to death so that the truth of god can be made more manifest in me ..
i dont cast off or attempt to explain away the word of god to conform it to my life .. we are told to conform to god .. NOT to the world .
we cannot serve two masters . we cannot walk in abide in and serve the lord Jesus and serve sin at the same time .
 

TurtleHare

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[MENTION=204]TurtleHare[/MENTION] ..That does not even warrant a reply...who it is or is not does not change the point presented.

How do you trust the rest of what is said if the initial information is incorrect? So shush.
 

Nes

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Hypocrites in here.

PEOPLE, THE GOSPEL SAVES YOU, NOT THE LAW. Not that hard lol.
 
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visionary

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law-of-love-hanger-jpg.175861

It explains Matthew 22

The Greatest Commandment
34 Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35 One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” .....37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Actually only 4 are for the love of God, and the six others are for the love of your fellowman.
 

psalms 91

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Yup exactly those fulfill all
 

Alithis

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Hypocrites in here, like damn.

PEOPLE, THE GOSPEL SAVES YOU, NOT THE LAW. Not that hard lol.

the gospel is the message that declares we must repent to God .. be baptised into christ and receive the holy Spirit ...,and then GOD saves us because of what JESUS has done .

if we do not "OBEY' the good news (gospel) he does not save the disobedient .

no one says the works of the law save or justify and no one here does the works of the law .or promotes doing them .

the consist of sacrifices bulls and goats and getting circumcised .. those works of "the law of the old covenant dont justify .

but we .. now live in the law of the spirit of life in christ jesus .. he fulfills this law in us and the law of the spirit of life is not sinful .

refer to visionarys post 149 :)
 

Josiah

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he does not save the disobedient


That's been your silly (and VERY unchristian) point since you came to this website.....

Yet AGAIN: The obedient don't need saving, those who don't sin don't need forgiveness...... And of course, the Apostle and Saint John writing to Christians says that ANYONE (pretty inclusive, huh) who claims (present tense) to be (present tense) without sin (ceased to sin, obedient) he LIES and deceives only himself. Apostle and Saint Paul writes to Christians and refers to himself (in the present tense) as the "CHIEF of sinners." So, by your theology, no one is saved - certainly not the Saints and Apostles John and Paul.

We're still waiting for that list of just ten people who don't sin and thus don't need the Gospel, the Christ, the Savior, God, mercy, forgiveness.... these "obedient" and "ceased to sin" folks you keep taking about that prove the Gospel wrong, prove Christ is a meaningless and unnecesary joke, these 10 obedient, sinless, perfect people that God "saves" (although you have persistently refused to say from what). Why can't you name just ten out of 7.3 BILLION living persons? Even just 10 obedient, perfect, sinless people? Is it because no one is saved, no one is a Christian, no one is heaven-bound? Or because you are wrong and Scripture/Christianity is right?


Ah.... you keep proving the opening post..... how if we entangle, confuse, dilute Law and Gospel - we destroy the very foundation and core of Christianity and wreck the faith. You keep proving that to be true. http://www.christianityhaven.com/showthread.php?2020-Muhammad-Ali-(Yes-this-is-a-Theology-thread)





.
 
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Alithis

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That's been your silly (and VERY unchristian) point since you came to this website.....

Yet AGAIN: The obedient don't need saving, those who don't sin don't need forgiveness...... And of course, the Apostle and Saint John writing to Christians says that ANYONE (pretty inclusive, huh) who claims (present tense) to be (present tense) without sin (ceased to sin, obedient) he LIES and deceives only himself. Apostle and Saint Paul writes to Christians and refers to himself (in the present tense) as the "CHIEF of sinners." So, by your theology, no one is saved - certainly not the Saints and Apostles John and Paul.

We're still waiting for that list of just ten people who don't sin and thus don't need the Gospel, the Christ, the Savior, God, mercy, forgiveness.... these "obedient" and "ceased to sin" folks you keep taking about that prove the Gospel wrong, prove Christ is a meaningless and unnecesary joke, these 10 obedient, sinless, perfect people that God "saves" (although you have persistently refused to say from what). Why can't you name just ten out of 7.3 BILLION living persons? Even just 10 obedient, perfect, sinless people? Is it because no one is saved, no one is a Christian, no one is heaven-bound? Or because you are wrong and Scripture/Christianity is right?


Ah.... you keep proving the opening post..... how if we entangle, confuse, dilute Law and Gospel - we destroy the very foundation and core of Christianity and wreck the faith. You keep proving that to be true. http://www.christianityhaven.com/showthread.php?2020-Muhammad-Ali-(Yes-this-is-a-Theology-thread)





.

lol they become the obedient by repenting of disobedience .. use scripture man not waffle .
 

Josiah

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Alithis said:
he does not save the disobedient

Waiting for that list of just ten living humans (out of 7.3 billion) who have ceased to sin, who never miss the mark ('sin', disobedient) but always hit the mark (sinless, obedient). Just 10.
 

Alithis

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Waiting for that list of just ten living humans (out of 7.3 billion) who have ceased to sin, who never miss the mark ('sin', disobedient) but always hit the mark (sinless, obedient). Just 10.

lol..how about you address why twice now you have said ..the bible does not say.....

and twice i have quoted where the bible says it.

your reasoning is not based on scriptures but on denominational tradition. and you have displayed that you havnt known what the bible actually says.
since your question is Not based on all scripture (only one out of context sentance) it is invalid.
and it is not going to be answered.

now..as per the mod ruling posted recently .
please cease from the style of posting which causes me to address that off topic content.and please stop misrepresenting my posts by extracting sentances from them.

this is the second time i haved asked you.
the mods saw fit to make the ruling so they must now apply it to all.

the questio. is invalid,irralavant,and disruptive.
 

Josiah

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now..as per the mod ruling posted recently .
please cease from the style of posting which causes me to address that off topic content.and please stop misrepresenting my posts by extracting sentances from them.

this is the second time i haved asked you.
the mods saw fit to make the ruling so they must now apply it to all.

What mod said we cannot discuss Law and Gospel in this tread, begun by me, concerning Law and Gospel?

You attack, entangle, confuse, deny and abuse Law and Gospel.... and you insist that God forgives the OBEDIENT (who thus don't have any sin to forgive) that some persons CEASE to sin - but you refuse to identify who these people are - these OBEDIENT ones who do what God commands (such as "Be perfect as God in heaven is perfect") and who CEASE to sin (thus never missing the mark but always hitting the mark). I agree with you - such WOULD destroy Law and Gospel, such WOULD prove all the Scriptures in the op to be false, such WOULD make Jesus an unnecessary joke, but so far you've refused to identify these sinless, obedient folks who thus need no forgiveness or salvation or mercy or Savior. Why? Is it that there are none? Not even you? That actually you are wrong and Scripture is right? "NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one?" "ANYONE who claims to be sinless is a LIAR?" That we ALL need mercy, forgiveness, the Savior because we ALL are disobedient, sinful? (what the Law says) and that God gave us the SAVIOR (not helper, now enabler, no possibility-maker (what the Gospel says) GIVING us forgiveness, mercy (because the Law is right - we all NEED it)?


Sola Gratia - Solus Christus - Sola Fide!



- Josiah




.
 
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Lamb

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The Gospel shows us God's glory, not man's glory since man cannot be perfectly obedient. Only Christ can do that. Adam and Eve were disobedient and yet God promised them the savior. And provided one.


Titus 3:4-5 But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared, He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy...

Romans 9: 15-16 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.

Romans 11:35-36 Or who has first given to Him that it might be paid back to him again? For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.
 

Alithis

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The Gospel shows us God's glory, not man's glory since man cannot be perfectly obedient. Only Christ can do that. Adam and Eve were disobedient and yet God promised them the savior. And provided one.


Titus 3:4-5 But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared, He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy...

Romans 9: 15-16 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.

Romans 11:35-36 Or who has first given to Him that it might be paid back to him again? For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.

and whom are we in..into whose death have we died ?and ehk livss in us? christ! and i assure you..he does not sin nod lead us into doing so.
 

Alithis

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What mod said we cannot discuss Law and Gospel in this tread, begun by me, concerning Law and Gospel?

You attack, entangle, confuse, deny and abuse Law and Gospel.... and you insist that God forgives the OBEDIENT (who thus don't have any sin to forgive) that some persons CEASE to sin - but you refuse to identify who these people are - these OBEDIENT ones who do what God commands (such as "Be perfect as God in heaven is perfect") and who CEASE to sin (thus never missing the mark but always hitting the mark). I agree with you - such WOULD destroy Law and Gospel, such WOULD prove all the Scriptures in the op to be false, such WOULD make Jesus an unnecessary joke, but so far you've refused to identify these sinless, obedient folks who thus need no forgiveness or salvation or mercy or Savior. Why? Is it that there are none? Not even you? That actually you are wrong and Scripture is right? "NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one?" "ANYONE who claims to be sinless is a LIAR?" That we ALL need mercy, forgiveness, the Savior because we ALL are disobedient, sinful? (what the Law says) and that God gave us the SAVIOR (not helper, now enabler, no possibility-maker (what the Gospel says) GIVING us forgiveness, mercy (because the Law is right - we all NEED it)?


Sola Gratia - Solus Christus - Sola Fide!



- Josiah




.

not discussing the mods..im applying the precedent they set.

not attacking anything ..just presented the scripture you denied was in the bible.
even when i post only the scripture you still oppose it
..and just now you have misquoted scripture..
go and read it...copy and paste it if you wish.. i do.
it doesnt use the word sinless. you add in what scripture doesnt say and what others dont even say.

it is dishonest .
the gospel must be obeyed.. not the law of sin and death mind.. but the good news.
i already posted the warnings from scripture about those who dont obey the gospel.

its not my words josiah. its not me your opposing.

now please cease this style of postng at me.
please adress the scripture, as written ,using the scripture..as written.

and start reading what i there instead of skimming to the bits that support you traditions but dont agree with scripture.
and stop basing it all on one sentance ripped out of its context.
 

Josiah

simul justus et peccator
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TurtleHare said:
Whenever someone says it's a gift but then you have to do such and such, beware of that scam, I mean you'd beware if a friend told you about some great gift you could receive in the mail, but first you gotta do this and this and this, does that still seem like a gift to you? If you received a call on the phone from someone telling you you won something but then you have to send them a check first, does that seem like a free gift?

How about I offer you a hundred dollars for free but then I set you up with some difficult task you can't accomplish (and only Jesus could do it perfectly) in order to obtain that hundred bucks, does it still seem like good news to you or does that cause fear and dread you might not make it?



.


Well said.


BEWARE of those who confuse, entangle, mix Law and Gospel..... who make the Gospel subject to the Law..... who dilute both to near nothingness...... It destroys Christianity, renders Christ a meaningless - irrelevant - worthless joke, and ultimately makes self the savior of self (albeit perhaps with help) - or even makes the whole issue of salvation irrelevant - and actually promotes modern Jewish, Muslim and Bhatki Hindu soteriology.


Pax


- Josiah
 
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