LAW and GOSPEL

[Alithis]

Let's look at those one by one.

Believe. We can only believe because we have first been given faith to believe. Those who do not believe reject the faith given to them and reject the Savior and His forgiveness.
Repent. The Holy Spirit works through the Word and uses the Law to show us our sin and then gives us faith to turn us to Him.
Be Baptized. It's God's work in us. And we receive the Holy Spirit in baptism according to Acts.

I hope you noticed the trend there of God doing all that work in us?

And yet in all your reasonings you add zero scripture and leave out the scipture clearly warning those who do not OBEY the gospel.
You cant say you have repented ..ifyou are still doing that which you claimed youve turned away from.

This must be the 4th time iv used this scenario to make the point..but here it is again.
If your spouse came home and said while away he slept with someone else..and was all sorry and repented..and youforgave him..thennext week he did it again..and again next week ..and againnext week..are yougoing to believe the sincerity of his repentance.. Nope.
But you expect god to be fooled into thinking youhave repented ofsin when you keep doing it again..?
He aint fooled.

 

[Alithis]

Since you INSIST on making the Gospel dependent upon OUR worthiness and works rather than Christ's, then again - let's see that list of ten sinless people, just ten living folks (out of 7.3 BILLION) who have ceased to sin. If there aren't any - then your "theology" forces two things: 1) You're wrong 2) There are no Christians, no one will be in heaven since none cease to sin.




.

And yet..there it is in black and white in the scripture.
And as the scripture is true.
What does that make your words?

The scripture states the direct oppisite to what you just said.

Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.
7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. 10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.

 

[Lamb]

And yet in all your reasonings you add zero scripture and leave out the scipture clearly warning those who do not OBEY the gospel.
You cant say you have repented ..ifyou are still doing that which you claimed youve turned away from.

This must be the 4th time iv used this scenario to make the point..but here it is again.
If your spouse came home and said while away he slept with someone else..and was all sorry and repented..and youforgave him..thennext week he did it again..and again next week ..and againnext week..are yougoing to believe the sincerity of his repentance.. Nope.
But you expect god to be fooled into thinking youhave repented ofsin when you keep doing it again..?
He aint fooled.

I asked you once before to not use MY SPOUSE in any of your sick scenarios. Use your own wife. I'm done now replying to your posts since you continue to be disrespectful toward me.

 

[Josiah]

It's good to not confuse Law and Gospel - or to make one dependent/conditional on the other.

Jesus tells even US (limited and fallen as we are) to forgive "not seven times but seventy-seven times seven." His point, of course, is not to count to 539 and then when they commit the same sin 540 times, shoot 'em. No, obviously, as your preacher tells you I'm sure, the point is we are to ALWAYS forgive where there is repentance and faith. I don't think God does LESS than WE fallen bloats are mandated to do.... The Gospel is not conditional upon not needing it.

And the Law is not conditional upon the Gospel being available. " Thou shalt not" applies to the saved, too. Thou must be PERFECT just as your Father in HEAVEN is perfect applies to Christians too (it's just we're forgiven if we miss the mark - sin - and kneel before His Cross in HUMILITY seeking MERCY because of the Savior, the Christ, the Blood, the Cross, the Savior.

Your persistence in entangling and confusing and deluting Law and Gospel gets you into all kinds of messes. See the thread: Muhammad Ali in this Theology forum.



Pax Soli Christi



- Josiah

 

[Alithis]

lol seriosly..?no one used "Your" spouse..never met the guy.it is a generic generalized example.you are the only person ever to twist it that way.
it is a cop out.

 

[Alithis]

what an irellavent load of waffle in an attemp excuse your refusal to stop your sin.
scripture states. when your born of God..you dont continue in the practice of sin.. ie- you dont keep comitting adultary by looking at porn. you.feel ashamed and you STOPdoing it.
irs pretty simple dude.

 

[Josiah]

excuse your refusal to stop your sin.

DESIRING to cease sin and ACCOMPLISHING that are two very different things.

Still waiting for that list of TEN (just 10 out of 7.3 billion), just TEN living people who don't sin, who never miss the mark, who always hit the mark 24/7, who are perfect just as God is, holy just as God is, loving just as much as Christ on the Cross, who make Scripture wrong with it declares "no one is righteous, no, not even one...... no one is even good except God exclusively.... if anyone claims he has no sins he is a lair and deceives only himself." Still waiting for that list.... and wondering if it has dawned on you that you can't produce even ONE name. Neither your theology you've been promoting in thread after thread since you came here is wrong or NO ONE is a Christian and will enter heaven because you can't think of even one person who has ceased sin.



- Josiah

 

[Josiah]

And yet..there it is in black and white in the scripture.

In LAW (which you water down, dilute, strip SO much as to be unrecognizable and which you apply to all 7.3 billion people of Earth except one - you)

But in the process, you delete the Gospel - that there is FORGIVENESS for sinners (which we ALL - yes, even you!!! - are).

In your persistent effort to dilute the Law to nothingness, you also destroy the Gospel - and thus Christianity.

The scripture states the direct oppisite to what you just said.

No. It says the opposite of what you do. Which is why you can't produce the name of even ONE living person on the planet Earth who has ceased sin and thus needs no God, no Christ, no Savior, no mercy, no forgiveness cuz self has no sin.


Read and consider this: http://www.christianityhaven.com/showthread.php?2020-Muhammad-Ali-(Yes-this-is-a-Theology-thread)



- Josiah

 

[George]

Mod Post

This thread needs to get back on track please. If someone asks you to stop posting in some fashion or they don't like something when being posted to, then you should honor that request. It disrupts the thread when discussion has to stop to address something. Things can get heated in a good way when discussing, but bringing outside examples and other means aren't needed, especially when they've proved to be an issue before.

If anyone has questions about this Mod Post, you may contact Romanos regarding this in the Member/Admin Center as Lämmchen the other Admin is involved in this thread.


​

 

[Alithis]

DESIRING to cease sin and ACCOMPLISHING that are two very different things.

Still waiting for that list of TEN (just 10 out of 7.3 billion), just TEN living people who don't sin, who never miss the mark, who always hit the mark 24/7, who are perfect just as God is, holy just as God is, loving just as much as Christ on the Cross, who make Scripture wrong with it declares "no one is righteous, no, not even one...... no one is even good except God exclusively.... if anyone claims he has no sins he is a lair and deceives only himself." Still waiting for that list.... and wondering if it has dawned on you that you can't produce even ONE name. Neither your theology you've been promoting in thread after thread since you came here is wrong or NO ONE is a Christian and will enter heaven because you can't think of even one person who has ceased sin.



- Josiah

Acomplishing the ceasing of sin is exactly what the lord Jesus came to acomplish in us.. He both sets us free and empowers us to do so .

 

[Alithis]

In LAW (which you water down, dilute, strip SO much as to be unrecognizable and which you apply to all 7.3 billion people of Earth except one - you)

But in the process, you delete the Gospel - that there is FORGIVENESS for sinners (which we ALL - yes, even you!!! - are).

In your persistent effort to dilute the Law to nothingness, you also destroy the Gospel - and thus Christianity.





No. It says the opposite of what you do. Which is why you can't produce the name of even ONE living person on the planet Earth who has ceased sin and thus needs no God, no Christ, no Savior, no mercy, no forgiveness cuz self has no sin.


Read and consider this: http://www.christianityhaven.com/showthread.php?2020-Muhammad-Ali-(Yes-this-is-a-Theology-thread)



- Josiah

1 john 3 states that one born of God does not coninue in the practice of sin...
Read the scripture and consider them.
Refer me to the scriptures and i will and do read then ..including the text leading up to and continuing on from a single verse so as not to miss its context.
References to more of your personal opinion i dont consider to be authoritive.

 

[pinacled]

Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.

-in blazing fire. He will inflict vengeance on those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the penalty of eternal destruction, separated from the presence of the Lord and the glory of His might,… HMM no law involved all new testament stuff -there is a vast difference between knowing the truth and obeying the truth .


Through him(Christ) you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God.
Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for each other, love one another deeply, from the heart. For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

there is just escape nor excuse from or for disobedience ...


John 14:15
“If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

Luke 6:46
“Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?

Matthew 7:21
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

etc

Amen.

John 5; 39
Exodus 15; 2

I wonder what it's like to read all the songs.

 

[Josiah]

1 john 3 states that one born of God does not coninue in the practice of sin...

We're waiting for that list of just TEN (just ten out of 7.3 billion) living persons who don't sin, never fall short, never miss the mark.... are perfect just as and to the same extent that God is 24/7, are holy just as and to the same extent that God is 24/7, that love all people to the same extent that Jesus did. Just ten, I'm not asking for proof that all 2.2 billion Christians are sinless, but just ten. I've been asking for this for a very long time and to date, you've not been able to come up with even one - not even one! Could that be because Scripture is right and you are wrong? Scripture such as "NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one" "NO ONE is good but God exclusively" "If anyone claims to be without sin, he is a LIAR and deceives only himself."

When you can produce that list of 10 such persons, I'll consider the central point of your theology - even though it does destroy Christianity.




- Josiah

 

[Josiah]

Acomplishing the ceasing of sin is exactly what the lord Jesus came to acomplish in us.. He both sets us free and empowers us to do so .

No. He came to GIVE us life..... He came to SAVE the lost..... Nowhere does Scripture say that Christ came so what we would not need the Gospel, would not need grace, would not need mercy, would not the Savior, would not need the Cross or the Blood - because we've ceased to sin. I think you have Christianity confused with Bhakti Hinduism. http://www.christianityhaven.com/showthread.php?2020-Muhammad-Ali-(Yes-this-is-a-Theology-thread)

 

[Alithis]

Originally Posted by Alithis ...
1 john 3 states that one born of God does not continue in the practice of sin...[QUOTE/]

We're waiting for that list of just TEN (just ten out of 7.3 billion) living persons who don't sin, never fall short, never miss the mark.... are perfect just as and to the same extent that God is 24/7, are holy just as and to the same extent that God is 24/7, that love all people to the same extent that Jesus did. Just ten, I'm not asking for proof that all 2.2 billion Christians are sinless, but just ten. I've been asking for this for a very long time and to date, you've not been able to come up with even one - not even one! Could that be because Scripture is right and you are wrong? Scripture such as "NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one" "NO ONE is good but God exclusively" "If anyone claims to be without sin, he is a LIAR and deceives only himself."

When you can produce that list of 10 such persons, I'll consider the central point of your theology - even though it does destroy Christianity.
- Josiah

wonder why you dont address the scripture ? do you not beleive 1john ch 3 .. is truth ? is he lying ? should i write to him and ask HIM maybe for that irrelevant list your after ..? would such a list prove the word of god erroneous and so cancel the scripture presented ? NOPE! neither the presence Nor absence of such a ridiculous list requested would make any difference to the truth of the scriptures ..

whether you had such a list or do not have such a list .. 'the scripture STILL states ...THIS ...


Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.
Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother
, THERE IT IS ..plainly in the scripture ...
so ../ NOT MY WORDS !... it is written - it is So .

 

[Josiah]

Originally Posted by Alithis ...
1 john 3 states that one born of God does not continue in the practice of sin...[QUOTE/]





wonder why you dont address the scripture ? do you not beleive 1john ch 3 .. is truth ? is he lying ? should i write to him and ask HIM maybe for that irrelevant list your after ..? would such a list prove the word of god erroneous and so cancel the scripture presented ? NOPE! neither the presence Nor absence of such a ridiculous list requested would make any difference to the truth of the scriptures ..

whether you had such a list or do not have such a list .. 'the scripture STILL states ...THIS ...


Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.
Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother
, THERE IT IS ..plainly in the scripture ...
so ../ NOT MY WORDS !... it is written - it is So .

If your Bhatki Hindu "take" on this is correct, then there MUST be perfect people among us - those who have ceased to sin, who no longer can sin, folks never miss the mark ("sin"), who always hit the mark ("sinless"), who are perfect as much as God is is perfect, holy as much as God is holy, loving as much as Christ is loving... 24/7..... people who make Scripture lying when it says "NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one..... NO ONE is good except God exclusively..... or as John himself later says in that book, "If ANYONE claims to be without sin, he is a liar and deceives only himself." IF you view is correct, there either MUST be a lot of perfect people among us OR no one is in Christ, no one is a Christian, no one will go to heaven. Since you can't think of even one sinless person (evidently, not even yourself)..... well..... you've just condemned everyone to hell OR you simply have a confused, wrong view resulting from your PERSISTENT entangling of Law and Gospel.... you have simply chosen to promote the soteriology of Bhatki Hinduism.

 

[psalms 91]

I clicked on three threads and they are all saying the same thing pretty much, any chance it could just be one?

 

[visionary]

Naming people who have not sinned is impossible, naming those who discontinue to sin is more reasonable.

 

[Lamb]

Naming people who have not sinned is impossible, naming those who discontinue to sin is more reasonable.

Discontinue just a few sins? Sure, we can name people that have stopped some big sins in their lives. That's not what Josiah is asking for though. We all fail at obeying the first commandment. None of us have that faith perfected yet in order to completely obey. Philippains 3:12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been perfected,

 

[Alithis]

josiah is asking the scripture to be proven wrong..
the scripture does say ..what it sfates.
we cant help it if he chooses to disbelieve it.
would you like me to tare that page out of the bible to appease him?
aint going to happen.