Can you be sinless for even one second?

[Josiah]

except that the lord jesus was simply showing that the actions we do begin in the heart .

Thought is SIN - regardless of whether any action results from it.

And if we claim to have no sin, we lie and deceive ourselves.

And no one is righteous.... no, not even one.

but NOW..in christ (if we are indeed in christ ) we are no longer enslaves to the compulsions of the flesh but free to chose to not do them .

We're waiting for that list of ten (ONLY asking for just 10.... out of 7.3 billion) living persons who are sinless, who always "hit the mark", who always perfectly do all that God commands - 24/7, who are perfect as God is, who are holy as God is, who are loving as God is, who have the same attitude and life that Christ had, who prove Scripture is wrong when it says that "if anyone claims to have no sin, he is a liar" and "no one is righteous, no, not even one." You may begin with yourself, if you like, just have your wife post that you are perfect and never have anything to repent of, no need ever for forgiveness or Christ or mercy or salvation because you have no sin.




.

 

[Alithis]

nope.. a sinful act cones forth from within but untill it does it is not an act of sin.it is an intent..what fills ths heart will become an action if you dont repent, change your mind.

did adam become guilty of disobeying God when he thought about the fruit..
or when he took and ate it..?
yes,when he took and ate.. he could have thought about it..then changed his mind and not have done it. it was not his thought but his chosen and outworked action which was sin.

no wonder you are so tangled up in condemnations if you think every wrongful thought is a sin when you had no intent to think it.
unless of course it IS you choosing to think it because it is what you desire to do..in which case you must repent..it means change your mind and stop thinking about sinning...

 

[Rens]

Thought is SIN - regardless of whether any action results from it.

And if we claim to have no sin, we lie and deceive ourselves.

And no one is righteous.... no, not even one.





We're waiting for that list of ten (ONLY asking for just 10.... out of 7.3 billion) living persons who are sinless, who always "hit the mark", who always perfectly do all that God commands - 24/7, who are perfect as God is, who are holy as God is, who are loving as God is, who have the same attitude and life that Christ had, who prove Scripture is wrong when it says that "if anyone claims to have no sin, he is a liar" and "no one is righteous, no, not even one." You may begin with yourself, if you like, just have your wife post that you are perfect and never have anything to repent of, no need ever for forgiveness or Christ or mercy or salvation because you have no sin.




.

Those texts are not about christians. No one is righteous, that's about the unsaved, I think it even was about the enemies of Israel. It makes no sense for a christian, since He says we are made righteous with Christ.
If we say we have not sinned we lie.
John says your sins are forgiven. So then you have no sin and Paul says says such were some of you, but you were washed. Even Peter who later denied Jesus and hadn't even been baptized in the Holy Spirit, Jesus said he was clean. He only needed his feet washed. Feet wash is that you get dirty when uou walk in this world, you ask forgiveness for a sin, but you don't become totally evil again. You're a new creation, a saint. Your spirit. Now we need to conform our mind to the Word and get changed by the renewing of our mind by the Word, whst God says about us, that we died with Christ and are a new creation.
I don't care which sin I did last week. It's done away. The evidence is done away. Nailed to the cross. Washed by His blood. If the enemy accuses you that you are a sinner, they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and the Word of their testimony and they didn't love their life unto death.

 

[Lamb]

No, we cannot be sinless for one second. The question was can YOU be sinless and the answer is a resounding NO. If we could be sinless there would be no need for a Savior and Jesus would never have had to die.

In my baptism my sins were washed away and I'm clothed in Christ's righteousness and the Holy Spirit is now working within me. That is the trust I have concerning being holy and it looks to the triune God, not me.

 

[psalms 91]

No, we cannot be sinless for one second. The question was can YOU be sinless and the answer is a resounding NO. If we could be sinless there would be no need for a Savior and Jesus would never have had to die.

In my baptism my sins were washed away and I'm clothed in Christ's righteousness and the Holy Spirit is now working within me. That is the trust I have concerning being holy and it looks to the triune God, not me.

Yes Jesus is our righteousness and our way.

 

[Rens]

No, we cannot be sinless for one second. The question was can YOU be sinless and the answer is a resounding NO. If we could be sinless there would be no need for a Savior and Jesus would never have had to die.

In my baptism my sins were washed away and I'm clothed in Christ's righteousness and the Holy Spirit is now working within me. That is the trust I have concerning being holy and it looks to the triune God, not me.

Then why did He come and die and rise from the dead? He came to save His people from their sins. Practising fornicators and homosexuals got saved, changed, Paul says such were some of you. Not that they still are. Why would He even say you must be holy if you can't?
If we're still always sinners and it doesn't matter, well let's go rob a bank next week.
https://books.google.nl/books?id=wt...ught he could be a christian gangster&f=false

 

[Josiah]

Those texts are not about christians. No one is righteous, that's about the unsaved, I think it even was about the enemies of Israel.

SAINT Paul refers to himself as the "CHIEF of sinners." The verb is in the PRESENT tense. He specifically says he is (present tense) the CHIEF of sinners. Do you believe that when Paul penned that he was not a Christian but an enemy of Christ? Do you therefore reject all 13 of his books in the NT and his position as a CHRISTIAN Apostle?


The verse says "IS". Present tense. No one IS righteous, no, not even one. PRESENT TENSE.... IS. And the "no one" and the "not even one" seem pretty inclusive to me. And John - writing to Christians in First John - writing to CHRISTIANS - pens, "If ANYONE (seems inclusive to me)... if ANYONE claims (present tense - applying to NOW, not THEN) .... even claims to be sinless, he LIES (that's the verb in Greek), he LIES and he DECEIVES (both in the present tense) only himself."

If we say we have not sinned we lie. John says your sins are forgiven.

Christians aren't perfect, aren't sinless - they are FORGIVEN. Apples and oranges. Justification does not eliminate the Law and it certainly doesn't eliminate sin - it brings forgiveness. It is this denial of sinfulness that I'm disagreeing with, this insistence that Christians do not sin. I'm still waiting for the names of ten living Christians who do not sin...... our friend has suggested just one (himself) but refuses to give any support (I suggested a post from his wife stating that he is divinely perfect, holy, loving; NEVER needing mercy or forgiveness because he always "hits the mark" 24/7... but so far, he has been unwilling/unable to do that or to offer the names of any other besides himself).

Irrelevant. Just a diversion.


Matthew 5:28, "But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart." ALREADY. IN HIS HEART. It says nothing about ANY "act" ever happening.... or that an "act" is needed for it to be sinful. It's ALREADY adultery.


First John 3:15, "Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him." IS.... a murderer. IN HIS HEART. Nothing about any "act" of anything to anyone.


And those were just two of the Scriptures that immediately popped into my head. You theology of sin is very, very unbiblical. You attempt to strip sin of any relevance, make it as tiny as you can - perhaps to escape it. This "you gotta ACT on it" is just another way you keep doing this. Sin is in our BEING, our HEARTS, deep INSIDE. If anyone claims to be without sin, he is a liar and he deceives only himself. NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one. Sure - when I'm sleeping, I MAY (may!) not COMMIT any outward ACT of disobedience, but that's irrevelant to the issue of whether I'm sinful. It just means I'm SLEEPING, lol. I'm the same ME..... Chief of sinners (like SAINT Paul). I'm NOT perfect as God, holy as God, loving as God, always hitting the mark and NEVER missing it.


.

Yes, our friend dogmatically stated that thoughts alone are not sinful. He is wrong, and his position should NOT be defended. Thoughts (alone) may be specifically sinful - Scripture repeatedly and often directly states that (I referred to two verses off the top of my head that I knew the references to without having to look them up). Those who hate the Law and who engrandize self must reduce the Law to near nothingness - as our friend keeps attempting to do. This should not be done. Law AND Gospel both exist, both apply - all ALL their fulness.





Pax Soli CHRISTI



- Josiah




.

 

[Rens]

I don't believe in total depravity. Even Hitler was nice to his dog.
I could easier believe someone never sins and gets raptured like Enoch than that someone sins every second. Even if you had to it'd become tiresome. That would mean babies are totally depraved too. Come on.

 

[Josiah]

Messy -


I guess I'd have an easier time with this Bhatki Hindu position if someone would just give a list of ten or so living persons (out of 7.3 BILLION!) who are sinless, who always hit the mark, who are perfect, holy, loving as God is...... 24/7.... proving Scripture wrong when it says "NO ONE (seems inclusive) is (present tense) righteous (without sin), no, not even one (seems inclusive)..... when John writes to CHRISTIANS and says, "if anyone (seems inclusive of the Christians he is writing to) claims (present tense) to be (present tense) without sin (sinless), he is (present tense) a liar and deceives only himself." I'd like to see a list of living persons who prove these Scriptures wrong and who are sinless, who have ceased sin. One appears to have claimed just one - himself, but so far, nothing to support the claim of self for self (I suggested his wife document that in apost here but so far....).


It seems to me SOME need to water down both Law and Gospel SO much as to be unrecognizable and meaningless.... all to promote the Bhatki Hindu view of soteriology that what we need is NOT the Gospel, NOT a Savior, NOT mercy, NOT forgiveness - but suffient TIME and HELP from the divine until we reach the point where we have ceased to be sinful (not THAT big an accomplishment since the Law is pretty small) - then we DESERVE heaven. I reject the Bhatki view. I think BOTH Law and Gospel are true! ALL the time! In ALL their power and truth! The Law showing us our sin.... the Gospel giving us our Savior. Always sinners (the Law), always saints (the Gospel).

Even Hitler was nice to his dog.

Did that document that ERGO Hitler was sinless, divinely perfect, holy and loving.... not in need of God or Christ or the Cross or mercy or forgiveness?

Could the Devil pet a bunny? Probably..... Would THAT document the Devil is void of sin? The Law as thus been fulfilled?




Sola Gratia - Solus Christus - Sola Fide! Sola Deo Gloria!



- Josiah




.

 

[Rens]

Messy -


I guess I'd have an easier time with this Bhatki Hindu position if someone would just give a list of ten or so living persons (out of 7.3 BILLION!) who are sinless, who always hit the mark, who are perfect, holy, loving as God is...... 24/7.... proving Scripture wrong when it says "NO ONE (seems inclusive) is (present tense) righteous (without sin), no, not even one (seems inclusive)..... when John writes to CHRISTIANS and says, "if anyone (seems inclusive of the Christians he is writing to) claims (present tense) to be (present tense) without sin (sinless), he is (present tense) a liar and deceives only himself." I'd like to see a list of living persons who prove these Scriptures wrong and who are sinless, who have ceased sin. One appears to have claimed just one - himself, but so far, nothing to support the claim of self for self (I suggested his wife document that in apost here but so far....).


It seems to me SOME need to water down both Law and Gospel SO much as to be unrecognizable and meaningless.... all to promote the Bhatki Hindu view of soteriology that what we need is NOT the Gospel, NOT a Savior, NOT mercy, NOT forgiveness - but suffient TIME and HELP from the divine until we reach the point where we have ceased to be sinful (not THAT big an accomplishment since the Law is pretty small) - then we DESERVE heaven. I reject the Bhatki view. I think BOTH Law and Gospel are true! ALL the time! In ALL their power and truth! The Law showing us our sin.... the Gospel giving us our Savior. Always sinners (the Law), always saints (the Gospel).







Did that document that ERGO Hitler was sinless, divinely perfect, holy and loving.... not in need of God or Christ or the Cross or mercy or forgiveness?

Could the Devil pet a bunny? Probably..... Would THAT document the Devil is void of sin? The Law as thus been fulfilled?




Sola Gratia - Solus Christus - Sola Fide! Sola Deo Gloria!



- Josiah




.

Noone is not in need of Christ. If someone would achieve that goal it would be only because of Christ. Charles Fitch maybe.

 

[psalms 91]

we all fall short and are in need of Him daily

 

[Alithis]

No, we cannot be sinless for one second. The question was can YOU be sinless and the answer is a resounding NO. If we could be sinless there would be no need for a Savior and Jesus would never have had to die.

In my baptism my sins were washed away and I'm clothed in Christ's righteousness and the Holy Spirit is now working within me. That is the trust I have concerning being holy and it looks to the triune God, not me.

then it is still you that lives ... and not christ. you haven't yet died int his death by burial in baptism in order to be raised a new creation i christ . there for you continue in sin because you continue to BE a sinner .
the very thing the lord Jesus came to save you from being . and to make you a new creature .
(to reiterate- can we sin yes ..do we continue to do so .. no .) and in the moment god has cleansed us from all unrighteousness we stand sinless before him . or do you claim that your wod is greater then his word and deny what he has done ? you vacillating back and forth .

what sin is it you are defending ? no one has answered that question .

i used to make these very type of arguments your making .. but i was trapped in a cycle of sexual immorality in porn . and not yet free not yet saved from my sin .'_I am fre to answer that question having a clear conscience before god .

but the lord jesus saved me and he set me free and sexual immorality has NO PART in my life whatsoever any more . the person who used to commit it has died in christ and i am a new creation in christ and do not work the works of sin but christ lives in me . I dont go about thinking about sin or how not to do it . i fgpo about thinking on righteousness and how to do that !
always looking for opportunity to share the gospel or heal the sick and i see the power of god at work in doing so .
yesterday i had the privilege of finding one whose heart was toward god and when i shard the gospel the person believed and we prayed a prayer of repentance together right there and then . i see an increasing number of people get healed when we lay hands on them in obedience to the lord jesus .
before , when i was practicing sin in a repetitive cycle .. i did not see such things happen . but NOW i have been born again of the Spirit of GOD . christ lives in me and I in him . and he works righteousness in me . i cant go back to the practice of sin .. for as it is written there is no longer any sacrifice for sin now ... but God be praised .he has so changed my heart that i do not desire to draw back unto perdition .

obey the good news .. repent , be baptised into christ's death , recive the holy Spirit .. he will raise you up again a new creation in christ . then go forward ever renewing your mind .
start beleiving the scriptures .. not what denominations have superimposed over them . start reading the whole scriptures .. not cherry picked sentences taken out of context .

 

[visionary]

Why believe it is darn near impossible to keep the commandments, when God believes it can be done, gave His Holy Spirit so that it can be done, had His only Begotten Son die to cover the sins repented of and help you over come, so that you can sin no more?

 

[Rens]

Why believe it is darn near impossible to keep the commandments, when God believes it can be done, gave His Holy Spirit so that it can be done, had His only Begotten Son die to cover the sins repented of and help you over come, so that you can sin no more?

Well to totally sin no more, every word you speak is not idle, everything is done out of faith, that's only possible if you're a revival preacher from Wales praying 18 hours a day or something, because if you know how to do good and not do it, it's sin. He really prayed 18 hours a day, 6 hours sleep, yup then it's possible.

 

[Josiah]

Why believe it is darn near impossible to keep the commandments, when God believes it can be done, gave His Holy Spirit so that it can be done, had His only Begotten Son die to cover the sins repented of and help you over come, so that you can sin no more?

Only two here have even MENTIONED "can't" or "darn near impossible." Never me.


What we've stated is what Scripture does: Anyone who claims to be without sin is a liar and deceives only himself. John wrote that to CHRISTIANS. And the word "anyone" seems fairly inclusive. And Scripture says, "No one is rightious, no, not even one" That too seems kinda inclusive. Paul, the saint and Apostle and penmen of about half the NT books, says that he IS (present tense) the CHIEF of sinners.

Yes, I'm one of those DEFENDING the Law - not watering it down to nothing, not dismissing it. It says BE PERFECT just as God is. Be HOLY exactly as and to the same extent that God is. Be LOVING exactly as Christ on the Cross. ALWAYS hit the mark..... NEVER miss it. 24/7. I think we should ask: Am I? Do I? I suspect, if honesty prevails, we will end up agreeing with Paul.... agreeing with Scripture.... falling on our knees at the foot of the Cross crying, Lord, have MERCY on me."

Yes, I'm one of those here DEFENDING the Gospel - not watering it own to nothing, not dismissing it, not rejecting it and replacing it with the soteriology of Bhatki Hinduism. BECAUSE of CHRIST...... BECAUSE of the Cross..... BECAUSE of the Blood..... BECAUSE God provided The Savior..... BECAUSE of mercy........ the Gospel is applied to sinners, to sin - and there IS forgiveness. Certainly where there is repentance and faith (because God PROMISES it, and God NEVER goes back on his promises, his faithfulness - no matter how sinful we are or how long we remain sinful). The Gospel covers us. We aren't perfect, we are forgiven - not because we've ceased to sin and thus need no God, no Christ, no Savior, no Cross, no mercy but RATHER because we do.

Thus, we are SAINT (via the Gospel) and SINNER (because of the Law). BOTH are true because BOTH Law and Gospel apply. Where I have disagreed with some posts here (and in related threads) is where posts have dismissed one or the other, ignored one or the other, watered one (and usually both) down until they are a meaningless, irrelevant concept that doesn't apply to ME because I ALWAYS hit the mark (it's just self moved the mark!) and I don't need no Gospel because I'M tapping God's help so as to be sinless (the Bhatki Hindu view). We are NOT ever sinless..... and we are NOT ever unforgiven. We stand before God as white as snow - NOT because we ceased to sin but because we have the Savior.



Sola Gratia - Solus Christus - Sola Fide! Soli DEO Gloria!



- Josiah

 

[visionary]

Claiming to be "without sin" means your eyes are not open to the depth of sin, its roots, branches and fruits in your life. No saint would make that claim because they will always seem themselves unworthy, sinful, and seeking to overcome any and all evidence of sin. It is an ongoing process. Perfect is the day the Lord seals you.

 

[psalms 91]

Exactly

 

[Alithis]

Why believe it is darn near impossible to keep the commandments, when God believes it can be done, gave His Holy Spirit so that it can be done, had His only Begotten Son die to cover the sins repented of and help you over come, so that you can sin no more?

yup .. the lord and savoir i believe in can do what he promises and HAS DONE what he promised ..

but we may ..or may not lol.. differ on a perception but it probably amounts to the same understanding .. i don't go about trying not to break the perfect law of life.. in Christ we have become the perfect law of life, we don't break ourselves . or as others would put it .. he is the fulfillment of the law and we are IN him - yes i know some will choke on that statement because they will not comprehend it .

 

[Alithis]

Claiming to be "without sin" means your eyes are not open to the depth of sin, its roots, branches and fruits in your life. No saint would make that claim because they will always seem themselves unworthy, sinful, and seeking to overcome any and all evidence of sin. It is an ongoing process. Perfect is the day the Lord seals you.

yet if we still see that way we see carnally not spiritually..
we see what was .. not what is in Christ .

i know i can challenge you with these thought because you approach the word of god honestly

 

[visionary]

Carnally... will never see the possibility.
Spiritually.. will see the probability if applied.