if you wish to discuss (preferred) ..argue debate tare down or agree with this post .. then
please start a thread to do so and i will gladly join it .
but here i am giving just a single linear reply (it is not comprehensive of every way i see things, but just one way i express it .)
Im only going to parrot what the bible states without additive in regard to salvation.
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everything it says .. not just favored verses .
so let the bible speak for itself and beleive it over and above every thought imagination and feeling .-
ie read it and accept everything written as truth . regardless of whether or not you comprehend it .
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if i were to summarize my own personal -present comprehension (i say "present" , because my comprehension is constantly being renewed as my mind is being renewed in christ )i would say this ..
the lord Jesus is the door .. he is the ONLY way to the father .
he became the door for us .. we do not make the door, can't make the door, can't improve the door, can't bypass the door without trespass .(some do bypass the door into the spiritual realm and they trespass ,they are wolves and thieves who go over the wall and not through the door )
Jesus is the door to the path that leads to life .
we enter that door by faith .. then we are renewed in spirit . then we walk the path being ever renewed outwardly as we go along that path ..
Jesus said -
"
Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in there,
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it..."
so we see it is a way .. it begins with a gate .. JESUS our lord and savior is that GATE .. salvation begins in him .. and we see ALSO that it is a WAY ..
the deciles were first called followers of "the way" .. it is a journey that must be stayed on and maintained and continued unto the end .
it does not cease at the gate ,the gate is but the beginning and at the end of the narrow and at times difficult road( difficult unto death for some ) waits a crown of life that we have not yet received though we grasp it by faith .
what must i see to consider some one is a disciple of the lord JEsus ? ( i prefer not to use the term christian .. it was a name given to disciples by people who were not disciples .. they saw people going around acting like JESUS ,healing the sick raising the dead preaching the gospel of the kingdom ,repentance and baptism. and
they nicknamed them , in essence, "little christs "..! because they were acting and looking like jesus when he was a man among us . so if we do not do so , it is presumptuous to name ourselves with that title . but a
disciple is one who is learning to
become like his master ... )
i must see in them a desire to change .. and evidence of on going change an increasing faith displayed by obedience BY faith .
a perpetual decreasing in worldliness and an increasing separation from the world .
i will give simplistic example (not to condemn because that would be silly , dont take it that way !,, i did not arrive in my present walk with the lord instantly by any means, but i did take far longer then was necessary because of what the church was teaching and because i was not really believing what i read in the word of god about him and about myself .. -in short i saw in a mirror and straight away forgot what i was like
and thus made no change . once i began to listen and beleive and then act on that .. change became astoundingly rapid and is still doing so .and will never cease changing until i become like my lord for that is what the father desires. that we be transformed . changed .
so if absolutely no change is taking place then YES ,,to be honest i must challenge the persons salvation. but for their own good ,not to condemn them .
so if i observe a younger beleiver going to church on sundays , maybe even a little outreach work .. then down the karate club on tuesday .. friday nights at the movies , favorite tv shows on a wednesday night ,struggling with a secret sin , a lot of doubt and some mingled depression and they take meds for it ... i see a person who has not yet begun to renew their mind and bring their outer life into subjection to the new person , the new creation they are in christ . because they dont know yet who they are in christ .because -a- they are not being discipled by someone that knows .. and -b- they are not seeking to know by reading the word and praying .. for when they begin to know christ and who he has made them and what he has made them ..they will rapidly begin to change and transform ....
i then would lay some blame on those discipling them and equally on them for not seeking god ( as i would blame myself equally )
Now .. they are young believers yet to learn itis unto these the greatest amount of grace is afforded ... (yes lol i do know that and understand that )
BUT now .. if i encounter this same beleiver in a few years time and find their life to be exactly the same .. i also find they now have some nice polished catch phrases to justify their karate ,movies tv and general worldliness and there has been no change toward godliness and out of sinful behaviours ... then i am caused to observe by the lack of godly fruit and the continuation of ungodly fruit .. what tree they are of .
such a person i will present with the gospel of repentance ,baptism and the receiving of the holy Spirit .. for they do not yet know god nor have they yet seen him ..
to qulify all that just a little , i was bought up in the bible from a child , other than some teen rebellion years ,i said a sinner's prayer and DID CHURCH .. for many years before I became a born again christian, born of water and of the holy Spirit . for many years there was religion there was outer appearance but there was no true inner transformation.
until god brought me to repentance .. and my mind began to be renewed and EVERYTHING CHANGED .. - no more cycle of sin and say sorry sin and say sorry .. instead
it ceased. i began to pray earnestly. i began to speak the gospel heal the sick drive out demons ..I began to live this new creations life that we are supposed to live ..and it is ever increasing [ broke my toe last saturday , could NOT walk on my left foot AT ALL ,pain was intense -i have witnesses , we commanded the pain to go and the toe to be healed .. ( a number of times .) it hurt ... boohoo poor me lol.. i sat on the bed and put my foot up .. i said to my foot .."n jesus name you will stop hurting ,you will stop swelling and you will be healed and i will go to work on monday wearing shoes ."
one hour later i wiggled my toe and was surprised when nothing happened no shooting pain , i called my wife in and said hey look at this i can wiggle my toe (made me yelp
before ).. i got up and tried it , i stood .. walked , ran , thumped my foot on the floor .. grabbed my 3 yr old and returned to playing our running game we had been playing when i hurt it .. fully healed , -this is life for us these days and we learn all the ore as the days go by . this is so much more exciting than 2 hours on a sunday , 4 songs coffee a sermon and go home and forget the sermon and watch some wickedness on tv, then get upset and argumentative if someone suggested i was not a christian .. ]
so in response to the OP question i say my requirements .. are change , change and change .. if there is no change ,there is no Holy Spirit at work in their life ..no matter how much they may put on an outer show . they are not surrendering their life to the Spirit of the lord jesus ..they are not
yet saved .., but they can be .. they just need to start listening to him .. repent and follow him ............
- you asked , i answered honestly .
---------------------------------------------------------- other then the op, please dont reply to ME here about this post ---just give your own reply ----------------
