Venial Sins

[Rens]

double post

 

[Rens]

Gets confusing when 2 threads are branching into the same topic.
This is then a reply to both.

In response to the reference "a sin unto death" in 1John 5.

he speaks of error ..if we see a person acting in an erronious manner. As paul did with peter in the case that peter did not eat with gentiles .paul even names it as "sin" .. Does it threaten peters salvation..? No it is a sin..an error that needed correction ..and paul gave that correction in no uncertain terms..and more importantly.peter ACCEPTED the admonishment by paul and corrected his ways.
Had peter not done so he would have progressed into rebellion against the holy spirit.so of course he repented of his present error. Such is a sin,a missing of the mark ,that does not lead to death.for there is no direct unambiguous command that "thou shalt eat with gentiles" that he was transgressing against.
But if he was traveling in the gospel work and sleeping with some strange woman ..that would be a direct transgression of what he knows to be right.it would be a sin unto death if he does not immediatly repent of it and cease .if he were to die in an unrepentant state,he would perish in his sin. It would be a sin unto death in that it is a direct rebellous violation against the known will of God.not an erronious behavior.
Just as lying is .and stealing and refusing to forgive.and porn which is adultory..and masterbation..which is the outward action purposly fed by the sinful desire to please the insatiable evil desires of the flesh by the sin of uncovering the nakedness of one whom you have no right to uncover.
It also,unrepented of,is a sin unto death.

No part of the text has anything what so ever to do with the old rcc pugatory .and swapping the definitions now is just an admission that the doctrine has always been false.

I don't think saved through fire is for such sins, although, what about that man who lived with his father's wife? But he repented while he lived.
He said don't pray for those who do sin unto death. People who are addicted to porn etc., you should pray for them. But if Peter or Paul would have fallen back into such sin I don't think they could come back, like Demas maybe. Nowadays most people can just come back because they're a baby christian. (that's what I think, otherwise the texts make no sense, that those can't come back and crucify Him twice, that you shouldn't pray for those who do sin unto death, then why could I come back and so many more christians who had backslid? I think that's more about pharisees and false teachers who live in sin. There's one preacher who marries her third husband now and they preach that watching porn together makes your life more exciting. I sure hope for them that there is hope, but I'm afraid not)

 

[psalms 91]

I don't think saved through fire is for such sins, although, what about that man who lived with his father's wife? But he repented while he lived.
He said don't pray for those who do sin unto death. People who are addicted to porn etc., you should pray for them. But if Peter or Paul would have fallen back into such sin I don't think they could come back, like Demas maybe. Nowadays most people can just come back because they're a baby christian. (that's what I think, otherwise the texts make no sense, that those can't come back and crucify Him twice, that you shouldn't pray for those who do sin unto death, then why could I come back and so many more christians who had backslid? I think that's more about pharisees and false teachers who live in sin. There's one preacher who marries her third husband now and they preach that watching porn together makes your life more exciting. I sure hope for them that there is hope, but I'm afraid not)

Wow talk about being decieved

 

[Josiah]

Catholics LOVE to make LOTS of distinctions in sins..... all in order to water it down, to make it not-so-big, not-so-bad..... we slip up (sorta) from time to time, but hey - it may not be a big deal.

While I DO think there ARE distinctions in the gravity of sin, I think that distinction has little significance in terms of our relationship to God (perhaps it DOES in our interpersonal relationships among FELLOW sinners.... ON EARTH). ALL sins are falling short, missing the mark, disobedience, fallenness, depravity... and the wages of ALL sin is death. Now, you could argue, "Hey, pur Adam, he was just hungry and Eve made an awesome apple pie - it's pretty understandable given the way husbands are....why pick on little ole pur Adam, what he did twert so bad!" Well, God doesn't grade on a curve, nor with degrees. Sin is sin. Missing the mark is missing the mark (whether by an inch or a mile), disobedience = disobedience. God demands absolute, divine PERFECTION! Absolute, divine HOLINESS! Absolute, divine RIGHTEOUSENSS! Absolute, divine LOVE! In our nature, our attitudes...... in our thinking and speaking .... in our deeds done and left undone ..... 24/7....... 100% ....... AS MUCH and JUST AS God Himself in Heaven. Either you do ...... or you don't. Either you hit the mark..... or you miss. It ain't rocket science.


The world's record for the running long jump is 29 feet, 2 1/2 inches. Pretty good. MUCH better than I do..... MUCH better than you do. COMPARED TO MAN..... AMONG THOSE ON EARTH, noteworthy (maybe even praiseworthy). But what if we weren't jumping across a sand pit, what if we were jumping across the Grand Canyon! I'm go back, run with all my might, jump out like 8 feet and...... splat, right to the bottom. Bob Beaman would go back, run with all his might, jump out 28 feet 2 1/2 inches ...... and splat, right to the bottom. The Bible says we ALL fall short...... We ALL miss the mark...... NO ONE is righteousness, no, not even. The one who CLAIMS to not sin is a liar and makes God a liar.


All these efforts by some (Catholics and Mormons DO seem to stand out in doing this) to water down the law..... to compare self to the worst idiot we can find..... to suggest some sins (those of others) are bad but some (mine especially) ain't so bad.... to suggest that God grades on a curve and takes effort into account..... they are all trying to get around the Law, engrandize self, minimize Christ and any need for Christ, the Cross, the Blood, mercy, salvation.




Pax CHRISTI



- Josiah

 

[psalms 91]

sin is sin

 

[visionary]

I had an instance where the person I was praying for years made his decision not to follow Yeshua [whom he knew as Jesus]. From that moment on, every prayer hit the ceiling and would go no further. The Lord spoke to my heart and explained that as a gentleman, He would honor his request to be no longer pestered via conscience any more regarding this issue. The man had put himself in no man's land. God couldn't save him, and because he also vowed not to allow the devil to use him to harass believers, he was of no use to the devil. That was what I came to understand the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. To reject any counselling from the Holy Spirit, which is the only life line humans have with God is the ultimate disconnect. This is the one instance where I can unequivocally say, this was the sin until death. He dies a month later.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Catholics LOVE to make LOTS of distinctions in sins...

Just two. Mortal and venial. These are both mentioned in saint John's first letter. I doubt that you'll correct your statements but they are in error. I guess it is all that "self" stuff you keep posting about. You magnify your doctrine above holy scripture and then accuse Catholics of having "lots of distinctions in sins". Just one more example of how far from the truth are your comments about Catholicism.

 

[Josiah]

Just two. Mortal and venial. These are both mentioned in saint John's first letter.

Obviously not.


Catholics LOVE to make LOTS of distinctions in sins..... all in order to water it down, to make it not-so-big, not-so-bad..... we slip up (sorta) from time to time, but hey - it may not be a big deal.


While I DO think there ARE distinctions in the gravity of sin, I think that distinction has little significance in terms of our relationship to God (perhaps it DOES in our interpersonal relationships among FELLOW sinners.... ON EARTH). ALL sins are falling short, missing the mark, disobedience, fallenness, depravity... and the wages of ALL sin is death. Catholics deep desire to deny that is because of the Catholic need to minimize sin (and thus make the soteriology that self saves self via the Law reasonable although unchristian).


Now, you could argue, "Hey, pur Adam, he was just hungry and Eve made an awesome apple pie - it's pretty understandable given the way husbands are....why pick on little ole pur Adam, what he did twert so bad!" Well, God doesn't grade on a curve, nor with degrees. Sin is sin. Missing the mark is missing the mark (whether by an inch or a mile), disobedience = disobedience. God demands absolute, divine PERFECTION! Absolute, divine HOLINESS! Absolute, divine RIGHTEOUSENSS! Absolute, divine LOVE! In our nature, our attitudes...... in our thinking and speaking .... in our deeds done and left undone ..... 24/7....... 100% ....... AS MUCH and JUST AS God Himself in Heaven. Either you do ...... or you don't. Either you hit the mark..... or you miss and thus SIN. WHICH IS IT ?????


The world's record for the running long jump is 29 feet, 2 1/2 inches. Pretty good. MUCH better than I do..... MUCH better than you do. COMPARED TO MAN..... AMONG THOSE ON EARTH, noteworthy (maybe even praiseworthy). But what if we weren't jumping across a sand pit, what if we were jumping across the Grand Canyon! I'm go back, run with all my might, jump out like 8 feet and...... splat, right to the bottom. Bob Beaman would go back, run with all his might, jump out 28 feet 2 1/2 inches ...... and splat, right to the bottom. The Bible says we ALL fall short...... We ALL miss the mark...... NO ONE is righteousness, no, not even. The one who CLAIMS to not sin is a liar and makes God a liar. Catholics, "But you sin badder than me!" by all these Catholic distinctions is just rebellion against the Law and engrandizing of self (remenber the Pharisees?).



All these efforts by some (Catholics and Mormons DO seem to stand out in doing this) to water down the law..... to compare self to the worst idiot we can find..... to suggest some sins (those of others) are bad but some (mine especially) ain't so bad.... to suggest that God grades on a curve and takes effort into account..... they are all trying to get around the Law, engrandize self, minimize Christ and any need for Christ, the Cross, the Blood, mercy, salvation.

What is the Law?

The Law is the will of God - flowing from His absolute perfection and justice. It is, in essence, that we be as He is - not in terms of essence but character.


Psalm 51:5 "I was sinful at birth"

Genesis 8:21, "Every inclination of man's heart is evil from childhood."

Romans 5:12, "Sin entered the world through one man's sin, and death through sin, and therefore death came to all men for all have sinned."

First John 3:4, "Sin is lawlessness"

Romans 3:12, "There is no one who does good, not even one."

Mark 10:18, "There is none who is good but God exclusively."

First John 1:10, "If we claim we have no sin, we make God a liar and His word is not in us."




What does the Law mandate?

Essentially, that our character be identical to His.


Matthew 5:48, "You must be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect."

1 Peter 1:16, "You must be holy even as God in heaven is holy."

John 15:12, "Love all people just as I (Jesus) first loved you."

Ephesians 4:32, "forgiving one another, just as God in Christ first forgave you."

First John 2:6, "Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did."

Philippians 2:5, "You must have the same attitude that Christ did."



The word literally means "to miss the mark." In ancient Greece, if an archer missed the target, the therefore "sinned" because he missed the mark, missed the target. The Bible says "ALL fall short." IF you have absolutely, perfectly, divinely, 24/7 "hit" all the targets above, then you are obedient and free of sin. Otherwise...... Well, the Bible would be correct and not lying when it says that "NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one." "For ALL fall short." "NO ONE is good." "If you claim to have no sin (you hit the mark), then you lie and call God a liar."

Pax CHRISTI



- Josiah




.

 

[visionary]

Bottom line is that even grumbling can cause you to lose your salvation....

 

[psalms 91]

Bottom line is that even grumbling can cause you to lose your salvation....

exactly

 

[visionary]

exactly

and not even Moses entered into the promised land... until the angel fought over his body to take him to the heavenly promised land.

 

[psalms 91]

Yes and what kept him from entering was it not disobedience

 

[MoreCoffee]

Just two. Mortal and venial. These are both mentioned in saint John's first letter. I doubt that you'll correct your statements but they are in error. I guess it is all that "self" stuff you keep posting about. You magnify your doctrine above holy scripture and then accuse Catholics of having "lots of distinctions in sins". Just one more example of how far from the truth are your comments about Catholicism.

Obviously not.
...

Obviously there are two categories. Mortal sins and sins that are not mortal which Catholics commonly call venial sins. 1John 5:16 If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that.

 

[Rens]

and not even Moses entered into the promised land... until the angel fought over his body to take him to the heavenly promised land.

He did come there later, with the mount of transfiguration.

 

[Alithis]

Yes and what kept him from entering was it not disobedience

disobedience founded in unbelief
they did not 'obtain " the promise because of unbelief, unbelief causes us to disobey . not believing is ,in itself ,disobedient .

 

[psalms 91]

disobedience founded in unbelief
they did not 'obtain " the promise because of unbelief, unbelief causes us to disobey . not believing is ,in itself ,disobedient .

Yup so what makes people think it has changed

 

[MoreCoffee]

disobedience founded in unbelief; they did not 'obtain " the promise because of unbelief, unbelief causes us to disobey . not believing is ,in itself ,disobedient .

Yup so what makes people think it has changed

It is dogged adherence to a theology because it is familiar and maybe comforting and possibly intellectually satisfying that makes people deny what is stated in the holy scriptures. The core argument from the holy scriptures is that faith without works is dead. Surely it is obvious by now that mortal sin is sin for which the sinner is not repentant. And surely it is also obvious by now that sins for which the sinner is repentant are venial in that they are forgiven when the sinner repents. Saint John worded it thus: 1John 5:16 If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that.

 

[psalms 91]

In other words sin is sin the only difference being repentance

 

[Josiah]

In other words sin is sin

Excellent point. It means we are imperfect, we are NOT identical in character with God, we "miss the mark" and "fall short" as the Bible says..... ALL of us...... EVERYONE..... and if we claim otherwise, the Bible says we "LIE" and "DECEIVE OURSELVES" (but not God! Not even any other person).

Catholics like to dwell on distinctions because it is essential to typical Catholic soteriology to make SELF as big as possible and Christ as small and irrelevant as possible.... and that requires making the Law as meaningless as possible and self hardly at all "falling short" (and eventually, they won't at all - thus EARNING and MERITING according to the LAW their way into heaven (rendering Christ and the Gospel irrelevant, unncessary - not when self has self that is SO goody goody, not when self HITS the mark every time, not when SELF fulfills the Law).



.

 

[MoreCoffee]

In other words sin is sin the only difference being repentance

Repentance certainly does make a difference with regard to forgiveness of sins and amendment of life. It's important to keep in mind that repentance is not merely sorrow over sins it is also turning away from sins and without turning away from them, which is a work of the will and of one's actions, it cannot be repentance. (2 Corinthians 7:10) For the sorrow that is according to God accomplishes a repentance which is steadfast unto salvation. But the sorrow that is of the world accomplishes death.