What is sin?

[Lamb]

There seem to be differing viewpoints on this site of what sin is, so let's discuss.

 

[psalms 91]

Anything thta does not line up with God and what He is telling you

 

[Josiah]

.


What is the Law?

The Law is the will of God - flowing from His absolute perfection and justice. It is, in essence, that we be as He is - not in terms of essence but character.

Psalm 51:5 "I was sinful at birth"

Genesis 8:21, "Every inclination of man's heart is evil from childhood."

Romans 5:12, "Sin entered the world through one man's sin, and death through sin, and therefore death came to all men for all have sinned."

First John 3:4, "Sin is lawlessness"

Romans 3:12, "There is no one who does good, not even one."

Mark 10:18, "There is none who is good but God exclusively."

First John 1:8, "If we claim we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."



What does the Law mandate?

Essentially, that our character be identical to His.


Matthew 5:48, "You must be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect."

1 Peter 1:16, "You must be holy even as God in heaven is holy."

John 15:12, "Love all people just as I (Jesus) first loved you."

Ephesians 4:32, "forgiving one another, just as God in Christ first forgave you."

First John 2:6, "Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did."

Philippians 2:5, "You must have the same attitude that Christ did."



Historically, Christians have spoken of ORIGINAL and ACTUALIZED sin.....

Original: The inclination, the propensity, that DISEASE that means we are self-centered, egotistical, self-serving, rebellious. It's what is in our hearts that LEADS to sins, it is the root of sin. When a man shoots his boss, the "problem" didn't start with the bullet entering the guys' chest, it began with something deep in the heart of the shooter - which LEAD to the chain of things that ultimately meant his pointed his gun and pulled the trigger. If I have a cold, I may sneeze. The sneeze is not the disease, it flows from the disease (which I may have even if I'm not sneezing at that microsecond; even if I take enough pills to never sneeze I still have a cold).

Actualized: These are the symptoms. They may be our thoughts or our words or our deeds. They may be known (observed) or not (even the sinner may not be aware of them). They may be thoughts or words of deeds we SHOULD have had but didn't (being imperfect)... they may be thoughts or words or deeds we should NOT have had but did (being sinful).



There are different kinds of Law in the OT.....


Moral Law: Governs behaviors and our relationships to God, each other and our environment. This still applies.

Ceremonial Law: Governs all the ceremonial aspects of the Old Covenant such as the building of the Ark, clothes priests are to wear, not eating certain foods, observing certain Old Covenant festivals, etc. This does not apply.

Civil Law: Governs the state affairs of the ancient kingdom of the Jews, the divine mandates to the kings vis-a-vis political and international relations. This ceased when Israel fell in 722 BC and Judea fell in 587 BC.




Thank you.


Pax Christi


- Josiah





.

 

[psalms 91]

Amen Josiah

 

[TurtleHare]

.


What is the Law?

The Law is the will of God - flowing from His absolute perfection and justice. It is, in essence, that we be as He is - not in terms of essence but character.

Psalm 51:5 "I was sinful at birth"

Genesis 8:21, "Every inclination of man's heart is evil from childhood."

Romans 5:12, "Sin entered the world through one man's sin, and death through sin, and therefore death came to all men for all have sinned."

First John 3:4, "Sin is lawlessness"

Romans 3:12, "There is no one who does good, not even one."

Mark 10:18, "There is none who is good but God exclusively."

First John 1:10, "If we claim we have no sin, we make God a liar and His word is not in us."



What does the Law mandate?

Essentially, that our character be identical to His.


Matthew 5:48, "You must be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect."

1 Peter 1:16, "You must be holy even as God in heaven is holy."

John 15:12, "Love all people just as I (Jesus) first loved you."

Ephesians 4:32, "forgiving one another, just as God in Christ first forgave you."

First John 2:6, "Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did."

Philippians 2:5, "You must have the same attitude that Christ did."



Historically, Christians have spoken of ORIGINAL and ACTUALIZED sin.....

Original: The inclination, the propensity, that DISEASE that means we are self-centered, egotistical, self-serving, rebellious. It's what is in our hearts that LEADS to sins, it is the root of sin. When a man shoots his boss, the "problem" didn't start with the bullet entering the guys' chest, it began with something deep in the heart of the shooter - which LEAD to the chain of things that ultimately meant his pointed his gun and pulled the trigger. If I have a cold, I may sneeze. The sneeze is not the disease, it flows from the disease (which I may have even if I'm not sneezing at that microsecond; even if I take enough pills to never sneeze I still have a cold).

Actualized: These are the symptoms. They may be our thoughts or our words or our deeds. They may be known (observed) or not (even the sinner may not be aware of them). They may be thoughts or words of deeds we SHOULD have had but didn't (being imperfect)... they may be thoughts or words or deeds we should NOT have had but did (being sinful).



There are different kinds of Law in the OT.....


Moral Law: Governs behaviors and our relationships to God, each other and our environment. This still applies.

Ceremonial Law: Governs all the ceremonial aspects of the Old Covenant such as the building of the Ark, clothes priests are to wear, not eating certain foods, observing certain Old Covenant festivals, etc. This does not apply.

Civil Law: Governs the state affairs of the ancient kingdom of the Jews, the divine mandates to the kings vis-a-vis political and international relations. This ceased when Israel fell in 722 BC and Judea fell in 587 BC.




Thank you.


Pax Christi


- Josiah





.

This is an extensive biblical explanation but not all Christians want to hear that because they think they can be good and please God yet God wants our faith in Him because his first commandment is to have no other gods before HIm and what does that mean but that we are to fear, love and trust in God with all our heart and soul. No one can do that perfectly even, so we can't even fulfill the very first commandment much less move on to the other ones. Our faith is in the Savior, not us, for our salvation and our faith continues in the Holy Spirit who guides us in sanctification and our faith is also in the Resurrection that is to come so that when we stand before the Lord on judgment day that we have every confidence that our Savior has accomplished all that needs to be done and in our baptisms we receive His righteousness and that means that God's got us in His hands and no one can snatch us out.

 

[Alithis]

And.. Jesus.. The lord of lord and king of kings..the lamb of god came to set us free from sin and its power and the death it brings and make us overcomers.
And make us a new creation and put His godly and perfect and rightous character in usthat we might now abide in him.
To abide in him is right.
What is sin to the new creation..to the born again?.. To know what is right..and not do it. Can we steal ,commit adultory,bow to idols etc,while abiding in him? Nope .we have to resist him to do such things and refuse to do what is right.

What is sin? To resist the rightness of God
To disobey him
To know what is right to do and not do it.

 

[visionary]

Sin is described in the Bible as transgression of the law of God

1 John 3:4 Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.

or as another translation put it..

Whosoever commits sin transgresses [breaks] also the law: for sin is the transgression [breaking] of the law.

God says that your sins separate you from Him

Is 59:1 Behold, the LORD's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear: [2] But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

God’s law reveals sin

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

This is the Tenth Commandment, found in Exodus 20:17 and Deuteronomy 5:21. The law that Paul and John referred to was the Ten Commandments. Both apostles taught that when you break them, you sin. John also wrote, in

I John 5:17, “All unrighteousness is sin.”

Since God’s commandments are righteousness (Psa. 119:172), then unrighteousness—sin—must be the opposite. It is breaking God’s commandments.

James expanded upon this. He taught that “whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend [sin] in one point, he is guilty of all. For He that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if you commit no adultery, yet if you kill, you are become a transgressor of the law [a lawbreaker]” (James 2:10-11). James was referring to the Ten Commandments.

Paul, calling the law “holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good,” also taught “that the law is spiritual” (Rom. 7:12, 14).

Yeshua magnified and expanded the letter of the law, revealing its spiritual intent. “You have heard that it was said by them of old time, You shall not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looks on a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart” (Matt. 5:27-28).

That makes God, Yeshua, Paul, James and John all witnesses to the Ten Commandments defining what is sin. Only two or three witnesses are necessary according to scripture.

 

[visionary]

Sin begins in the mind. What you think eventually becomes what you do (Prov. 23:7)!

Matt 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart [mind]; and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts,
murders [Sixth Commandment],
adulteries [Seventh Commandment], fornications,
thefts [Eighth Commandment],
false witness [Ninth Commandment],
blasphemies [Third Commandment]:
These are the things which defile a man.

 

[visionary]

James 1:14-15 shows that when men entertain wrong thoughts, they will eventually produce wrong actions. “But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust has conceived, it brings forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, brings forth death [the wages of sin].” By their fruits you shall know them.

 

[Alithis]

Sin is described in the Bible as transgression of the law of God


or as another translation put it..
God says that your sins separate you from Him


God’s law reveals sin

This is the Tenth Commandment, found in Exodus 20:17 and Deuteronomy 5:21. The law that Paul and John referred to was the Ten Commandments. Both apostles taught that when you break them, you sin. John also wrote, in Since God’s commandments are righteousness (Psa. 119:172), then unrighteousness—sin—must be the opposite. It is breaking God’s commandments.

James expanded upon this. He taught that “whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend [sin] in one point, he is guilty of all. For He that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if you commit no adultery, yet if you kill, you are become a transgressor of the law [a lawbreaker]” (James 2:10-11). James was referring to the Ten Commandments.

Paul, calling the law “holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good,” also taught “that the law is spiritual” (Rom. 7:12, 14).

Yeshua magnified and expanded the letter of the law, revealing its spiritual intent. “You have heard that it was said by them of old time, You shall not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looks on a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart” (Matt. 5:27-28).

That makes God, Yeshua, Paul, James and John all witnesses to the Ten Commandments defining what is sin. Only two or three witnesses are necessary according to scripture.

Yup yup and yup

 

[Rens]

Sin is zonde, but zonde also means what a pity.

 

[Lamb]

Sin is described in the Bible as transgression of the law of God


or as another translation put it..
God says that your sins separate you from Him



James expanded upon this. He taught that “whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend [sin] in one point, he is guilty of all.

I've snipped two very important portions of visionary's post. It's obvious how our sin keeps us away from God, how we can't even keep it at all because if we offend at one point, we are guilty of it all.

This is important to see since people think they're doing okay in keeping away from sin. Yet, offend in one point, and it's all broken. This is why we need our Savior. We are covered in his blood and righteousness.

As Christians we don't want to sin because we love God and by trying to not sin we also show love for our neighbor. But we do still sin no matter what anyone tries to feed to you. It's not that we "must" but that we do. We are not sinless because of us. We are clean because of the Savior who was sinless.

Sin envelops much more than just a few major things you know are obvious. Maybe that's why people think they're doing okay since they see the big things like murder and adultery and say, Hey, I don't do those so I'm not sinning anymore. Yet, go back to what visionary posted and you'll see that you still need the Savior.

 

[psalms 91]

We all do in one way or another. Do you lie, you overeat. gossip, miss the voice ofg the Holy Spiurit and not do something God has told you to? Sometimes it is so simple yet so easy

 

[visionary]

Have you ever met someone who is conscientious in word and deed, so much so that they are a great example that a person can live a lot less of sinfulness? I think we should not focus so much on our weakness in the flesh but the spirit within us that Yeshua gave to strengthen and help us over come.

 

[Alithis]

Have you ever met someone who is conscientious in word and deed, so much so that they are a great example that a person can live a lot less of sinfulness? I think we should not focus so much on our weakness in the flesh but the spirit within us that Yeshua gave to strength and help us over come.

did he ? did he give us the power to over come /

yup he did

i still find it amazing what some folks consider to be sin. on one hand stating they are free on the other hand stating they cannot cease from it
on one hand stating they cannot be made righteous by the law -on the other hand stating that they can't stop breaking the law that they are not bound by because it cant save them..and so they remain a sinner which is it ?.. the thing missing is the new birth . we DIE in christ when we are buried with him by baptism into his death ..we DIE .done deal death done price paid penalty served,wage paid in full remission slip received .nil historic record of wrongs against us (all this is what scripture states very clearly )

when we are the made alive again by the holy Spirit ..we are made a new creation in christ JESUS - brand new with HIS perfect nature in us that we might now walk in obedience to his perfect nature .

its all very simple . follow him and obey him .. and he will lead you into sin.... say what ??? i laugh ..such is the suggestion made by some who do not yet believe what the lord has accomplished for us.
as i have pointed out before .. i speak not in terms of ambiguous grey.. but in terms of such things we know to be sin..
hate ,lust ,food offered to idols , praying to statues and covetousness which is all idolatry ,sexual immorality ,adultery ,porn etc .. there is no ambiguity in these things .. we know them to be sin and we know the holy Spirit CANNOT ever lead us into committing them .. we have to do that all by ourselves of our own rebellion .
so


if some one offends you ... does not mean they sinned .. some one can offend you by making you a coffee and adding the milk after the coffee instead of before .. its fickle ..but some get offended if you dont do it the way they prefer it done.. so they become offended / did the person who made the coffee "sin" / nope. did the person who was offended by it sin/ nope -not unless they held onto the offense and have not yet forgiven it . unforgiveness is a clear unambiguous sin .

it was not for an offence of eve getting annoyed at adma one day because he didn't get her an orange from the right hand branch but the one on the left and so she got annoyed and offended at him that christ came to die upon he cross ... but for the sin of man kind which entered when adam disobeyed a direct instruction for GOD ... there was no ambiguity involved , no grey area .

God said but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die

no ambiguity there what so ever - he knew it was wrong and he took and he ate .

when i speak of people implying that they can continue in sin and still be saved ..it is this state of knowing a thing to be a sin and then doing it anyway ,which i speak of .
and there is the interesting clinch ..the reaction. for if a person is not doing any such unambiguous sin ,they often say 'amen" against sin.. but when they are secretly engaged in it they hurry to defend sinful behaviour ..and use ambiguous grey blurry behaviour that can be perceived by one person as sin yet by another as not sin ... ie-to one it is sin to eat pork ,to another it is not sin to eat pork /to one it is a perceived sin to speak the truth with harsh direct words ..to another it is not a sin to speak truth with harsh direct words . It is NOT these wranglings of ambiguity i speak of .
but plain simple things we absolutely know to be sin .

deal with the simplicity of it and with the clarity of it .

if your looking at porn guys .. and you keep doing it -you are in an unrepentant state of continues sin of adultery ..and if you do not repent ..you will perish in your sin .
if your stealing from your work or stealing by defrauding another you are a thief -you are in an unrepentant state of continued sin ..and if you do not repent ..you will perish in your sin .
if you are harbouring unforgiveness then you are hating and to not forgive is to desire someone's death .. your harbouring murder .you are in an unrepentant state of continued sin ..and if you do not repent ..you will perish in your sin .
if your motive and practice in life is to get get get ,flasher brighter newer ,best brightest for the elevation san glorification of self then in your in the sin of covetousness ,you are in an unrepentant state of continued sin ..and if you do not repent ..you will perish in your sin .

etc

dont attempt to complicate it ,dont try to sweep it under the matt of ambiguity .. dont try to echo the serpents word .. "did god really say "..
But if none of this applies to your life then rejoice in your clear conscience before God

but you alone(whoever you may be ) know that God knows ..and that he is not fooled .
never excuse sin ..just deal with it ..bring it into the light of god at the feet of jesus and let God both take it away and change your HEART so that you wil walk free of it from the very day you do so ..
JESUS CAME TO SET US FREE ..he did not fail to do so and he did not do so to leave us languishing as a slave to it . there is a reason it is called GOOD NEWS ... not "possibly good news but maybe not if it doesnt work for you . " he CAN and he WILLS to set us free .. he went to unimaginable lengths to achieve that freedom for us that we might now PUT OFF the sins of the flesh and walk in HIS righteousness having faith that he is able to do that which he has promised to DO .

 

[Lamb]

Have you ever met someone who is conscientious in word and deed, so much so that they are a great example that a person can live a lot less of sinfulness? I think we should not focus so much on our weakness in the flesh but the spirit within us that Yeshua gave to strength and help us over come.

Yes, there are people who seem to be very godly. Give them time though and you'll see that they make mistakes/errors/sins just like the rest of us. I haven't met a person yet who is sinless except for Jesus. We even see it here (sins) on this site even though some are in big denial

 

[Josiah]

did he give us the power to over come / yup he did

Althis, we're still waiting for that list of just TEN living Christians who are obedient and not sinful...... NOT ten who are empowered to be but just ten who ARE..... 24/7, perfectly, absolutely, exactly like/as God in Heaven.

.


What is the Law?

The Law is the will of God - flowing from His absolute perfection and justice. It is, in essence, that we be as He is - not in terms of essence but character.

Psalm 51:5 "I was sinful at birth"

Genesis 8:21, "Every inclination of man's heart is evil from childhood."

Romans 5:12, "Sin entered the world through one man's sin, and death through sin, and therefore death came to all men for all have sinned."

First John 3:4, "Sin is lawlessness"

Romans 3:12, "There is no one who does good, not even one."

Mark 10:18, "There is none who is good but God exclusively."

First John 1:10, "If we claim we have no sin, we make God a liar and His word is not in us."



What does the Law mandate?

Essentially, that our character be identical to His.


Matthew 5:48, "You must be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect."

1 Peter 1:16, "You must be holy even as God in heaven is holy."

John 15:12, "Love all people just as I (Jesus) first loved you."

Ephesians 4:32, "forgiving one another, just as God in Christ first forgave you."

First John 2:6, "Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did."

Philippians 2:5, "You must have the same attitude that Christ did."



Historically, Christians have spoken of ORIGINAL and ACTUALIZED sin.....

Original: The inclination, the propensity, that DISEASE that means we are self-centered, egotistical, self-serving, rebellious. It's what is in our hearts that LEADS to sins, it is the root of sin. When a man shoots his boss, the "problem" didn't start with the bullet entering the guys' chest, it began with something deep in the heart of the shooter - which LEAD to the chain of things that ultimately meant his pointed his gun and pulled the trigger. If I have a cold, I may sneeze. The sneeze is not the disease, it flows from the disease (which I may have even if I'm not sneezing at that microsecond; even if I take enough pills to never sneeze I still have a cold).

Actualized: These are the symptoms. They may be our thoughts or our words or our deeds. They may be known (observed) or not (even the sinner may not be aware of them). They may be thoughts or words of deeds we SHOULD have had but didn't (being imperfect)... they may be thoughts or words or deeds we should NOT have had but did (being sinful).



There are different kinds of Law in the OT.....


Moral Law: Governs behaviors and our relationships to God, each other and our environment. This still applies.

Ceremonial Law: Governs all the ceremonial aspects of the Old Covenant such as the building of the Ark, clothes priests are to wear, not eating certain foods, observing certain Old Covenant festivals, etc. This does not apply.

Civil Law: Governs the state affairs of the ancient kingdom of the Jews, the divine mandates to the kings vis-a-vis political and international relations. This ceased when Israel fell in 722 BC and Judea fell in 587 BC.




Thank you.


Pax Christi


- Josiah





.

Still waiting for that list of just TEN perfect, obedient, sinless Christians to prove your point that Scrpture errs when it states that NO ONE is good but God exclusively.... that NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one...... that NO ONE does what is right.... that Paul lied when he called himself (by inspiration) CHIEF of SINNERS.



Pax CHRISTI



- Josiah

 

[Lamb]

Althis, we're still waiting for that list of just TEN living Christians who are obedient and not sinful...... NOT ten who are empowered to be but just ten who ARE..... 24/7, perfectly, absolutely, exactly like/as God in Heaven.

He hasn't provided one because he doesn't know any such people. Neither do I. We are all covered by Christ, but we still sin as it's been repeatedly pointed out. Those in denial don't want to face their sins.

 

[visionary]

Recognition of the sinless by the sinful is not going to happen. Persecution rises at every step closer to Him. Accusers are abundant, reflecting the spirit in which they walk. Our eyes should be focused on our walk with Him, and not the stumbles along the way. Trip ups happen, but it is those who quit getting up and surrender to the path of sin that shows lack of faith. By Faith, all the overcoming is accomplished.

Do we as parents see our infants as failures because they land on their bottoms learning to walk? Do we instead cheer that they took their first steps? Our heavenly Father is like that, rejoicing in our walk with Him, and helping us back up, when we trip up. The very fact that we are headed in the right direction shedding sinful habits along the way, reveals Him working in us. We should rejoice in these things.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

.


What is the Law?

The Law is the will of God - flowing from His absolute perfection and justice. It is, in essence, that we be as He is - not in terms of essence but character.

Psalm 51:5 "I was sinful at birth"

Genesis 8:21, "Every inclination of man's heart is evil from childhood."

Romans 5:12, "Sin entered the world through one man's sin, and death through sin, and therefore death came to all men for all have sinned."

First John 3:4, "Sin is lawlessness"

Romans 3:12, "There is no one who does good, not even one."

Mark 10:18, "There is none who is good but God exclusively."

First John 1:10, "If we claim we have no sin, we make God a liar and His word is not in us."



What does the Law mandate?

Essentially, that our character be identical to His.


Matthew 5:48, "You must be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect."

1 Peter 1:16, "You must be holy even as God in heaven is holy."

John 15:12, "Love all people just as I (Jesus) first loved you."

Ephesians 4:32, "forgiving one another, just as God in Christ first forgave you."

First John 2:6, "Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did."

Philippians 2:5, "You must have the same attitude that Christ did."



Historically, Christians have spoken of ORIGINAL and ACTUALIZED sin.....

Original: The inclination, the propensity, that DISEASE that means we are self-centered, egotistical, self-serving, rebellious. It's what is in our hearts that LEADS to sins, it is the root of sin. When a man shoots his boss, the "problem" didn't start with the bullet entering the guys' chest, it began with something deep in the heart of the shooter - which LEAD to the chain of things that ultimately meant his pointed his gun and pulled the trigger. If I have a cold, I may sneeze. The sneeze is not the disease, it flows from the disease (which I may have even if I'm not sneezing at that microsecond; even if I take enough pills to never sneeze I still have a cold).

Actualized: These are the symptoms. They may be our thoughts or our words or our deeds. They may be known (observed) or not (even the sinner may not be aware of them). They may be thoughts or words of deeds we SHOULD have had but didn't (being imperfect)... they may be thoughts or words or deeds we should NOT have had but did (being sinful).



There are different kinds of Law in the OT.....


Moral Law: Governs behaviors and our relationships to God, each other and our environment. This still applies.

Ceremonial Law: Governs all the ceremonial aspects of the Old Covenant such as the building of the Ark, clothes priests are to wear, not eating certain foods, observing certain Old Covenant festivals, etc. This does not apply.

Civil Law: Governs the state affairs of the ancient kingdom of the Jews, the divine mandates to the kings vis-a-vis political and international relations. This ceased when Israel fell in 722 BC and Judea fell in 587 BC.




Thank you.


Pax Christi


- Josiah





.

I appreciate this explanation, as it goes far beyond the idea of merely having a "sin nature". Somehow that idea suggests that there is an age (never stated) where sin enters into our life, where we become aware of it, or it gains a foothold. Prior to that, there is some presumption of innocence. That may never be admitted by those that hold the view until later, when one might suggest a small child is a sinner (i.e. 'original sin'). Then the gloves come off - "How can you say that innocent child is a sinner?! How dare you?!"

I would disagree, though, in saying that original sin is an "inclination or propensity". I think that softens things a bit. Perhaps these would be better explained by your examples of actualized sin. Original sin (imo) is an inherited sin (through Adam) we can do nothing about.