are we saved if we remain in sin -? no

[Alithis]

It may be possible to cease engaging in wilful serious sins, right?

Perhaps it is possible to cease engaging in wilful minor sins.

If Job was what Jehovah said he was then perhaps it is possible to cease doing evil of any kind.

Jehovah said of Job: there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that fears God, and turns away from evil.

Why do you ask..it may be possible?
As it unintentionally implies it may not be.

Job Is Not the best example as he was not under the new covenant.. But we are..IF We have obeyed the gospel and so entered into that new covenant.
Since the scriptures state plainly that christ has set us Free.. What in heaven or earth can compel us beyond self will to continue in an action We know to be sin.
Actions we know to be sin are clarified by the ten commandments .there is no ambiguity there.
But we have died to the law in christ and id we have been buried with him by baptism and made alive again ..a new creation. Sinno longer has dominion over us.

Thus the point that lays behind the venom of some reaction.. It lays bare the truth that. Those that claim to be disciples of jesus... Continue in a repeating behaviour of a particular sin (i cant know what..but they keep implying they do, rather blatantly).for one reason... They dont want to stop.so they make excuse.. But the excuse does not agree with the word of god. So we are face with a double mind.
Gods mind made clear in his word..or.. Thier own mind at enmity with his word.

 

[Alithis]

In a previous post pages back in this thread, Alithis wrote that if the Holy Spirit didn't convict him of sin that he was innocent since if he didn't know he was committing a sin that he wasn't guilty yet that isn't a biblical concept and here's the clincher, he really believes that he's on the right path in eliminating his own little concept of sin. As Josiah said in the other thread, he's making himself into a Savior all the while trying to proclaim Jesus and the Holy Spirit but instead relying on his obedience to try to stop sinning (his concept of what sin is) which we see is him not actually relying on the forgiveness/atonement that Jesus died on the cross. That's breaking the first commandment since God doesn't want us to have any other gods before Him yet, by thinking he's stopping his sin that he will be saved since his remaining in these sins will not save him but he can't see how his theology pushes him away from God's true salvation and puts it onto himself.

It's a shame he is thinking that there is promotion to stay in sin because I haven't seen hide nor hair of that from anyone but him accusing it of folks, you know? It's absolutely "waffle" to imply that people are saying SIN SIN SIN go ahead and sin and all is fine because no one has yet said that and I really doubt anyone would try to encourage others but whatever.

Did not say what you presented here. not even close. You added in entire sentances of your own. Very dishonest.

I said the holy spirit convicts us of sin.
So if he is not doing so ..it is because. We are not doing a sin he needs to convict us of.
He is holy..he does not turn a blind eye ,he does not excuse unrightousness.

Jesus said if you love him ..you will obey him.
Can you testify of when he told you to sin the sin you imply you cant but actually wont) stop sinning.
All the time you attacking me.
But you refuse to adress the topic or the scripture.
So.. I will give you the scripture YET AGAIN..

Turtlehare: Which part of this do you NOT Agree with..?
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. For one who has died has been set free from sin. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.
For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Lamb]

Liar liar was calling you out and you did not like it.. Sorry but thats not a sin .

You deny your sin of acting in an unloving manner as Jesus commands. Saying Liar Liar pants on fire is taunting, it is not said out of love. Of course it's a sin.

Alithis, you have a very weakened view of what sin actually is. I began a new thread on what is sin to help teach you and here is a most excellent reply by someone:

What is the Law?

The Law is the will of God - flowing from His absolute perfection and justice. It is, in essence, that we be as He is - not in terms of essence but character.

Psalm 51:5 "I was sinful at birth"

Genesis 8:21, "Every inclination of man's heart is evil from childhood."

Romans 5:12, "Sin entered the world through one man's sin, and death through sin, and therefore death came to all men for all have sinned."

First John 3:4, "Sin is lawlessness"

Romans 3:12, "There is no one who does good, not even one."

Mark 10:18, "There is none who is good but God exclusively."

First John 1:10, "If we claim we have no sin, we make God a liar and His word is not in us."



What does the Law mandate?

Essentially, that our character be identical to His.


Matthew 5:48, "You must be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect."

1 Peter 1:16, "You must be holy even as God in heaven is holy."

John 15:12, "Love all people just as I (Jesus) first loved you."

Ephesians 4:32, "forgiving one another, just as God in Christ first forgave you."

First John 2:6, "Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did."

Philippians 2:5, "You must have the same attitude that Christ did."



Historically, Christians have spoken of ORIGINAL and ACTUALIZED sin.....

Original: The inclination, the propensity, that DISEASE that means we are self-centered, egotistical, self-serving, rebellious. It's what is in our hearts that LEADS to sins, it is the root of sin. When a man shoots his boss, the "problem" didn't start with the bullet entering the guys' chest, it began with something deep in the heart of the shooter - which LEAD to the chain of things that ultimately meant his pointed his gun and pulled the trigger. If I have a cold, I may sneeze. The sneeze is not the disease, it flows from the disease (which I may have even if I'm not sneezing at that microsecond; even if I take enough pills to never sneeze I still have a cold).

Actualized: These are the symptoms. They may be our thoughts or our words or our deeds. They may be known (observed) or not (even the sinner may not be aware of them). They may be thoughts or words of deeds we SHOULD have had but didn't (being imperfect)... they may be thoughts or words or deeds we should NOT have had but did (being sinful).



There are different kinds of Law in the OT
.....


Moral Law: Governs behaviors and our relationships to God, each other and our environment. This still applies.

Ceremonial Law: Governs all the ceremonial aspects of the Old Covenant such as the building of the Ark, clothes priests are to wear, not eating certain foods, observing certain Old Covenant festivals, etc. This does not apply.

Civil Law: Governs the state affairs of the ancient kingdom of the Jews, the divine mandates to the kings vis-a-vis political and international relations. This ceased when Israel fell in 722 BC and Judea fell in 587 BC.

 

[Alithis]

Dan Mohler says he can't even remember his last sin. He doesn't sin every day. He has no habitual sin. He knows who he is in Christ, but one great thing he said: to be lead by the Spirit you have to pray.
Harold Hill's tongue was quite venomous. He said: to let the Holy Spirit take control of my tongue I started to speak a lot in tongues.

Hi messy
I'v not read or listened to Dan Mohler.. Butiv heard the name.. Is he affiliated with curry blake ?
I often think torban probabl. Listened to curry blac. ,particulary in dispelling the false theologies around healing.

I think in all this topic the most amaxing thing is... Those sins which i was trapped in a repetative cycle of. Which caused me also to try and say..ouh every one sins ,we are only human.. Etc and all the other consience appeasing delusions we fool ourselves with..
All stopped..when the lord showed me the truth that hehas already set me free and the ONLY reason i continued todo them is because i wanted to..i.had not repented of them .

So i praise God greatly.because he showed me the truth about that repetative cycle of sin and the truth set me free so that i STOPPED and simply do not do those sins any more..
And since that sin held me in self loathing and enmity with God and strife... When they Stopped..so did depression and the like and the deliverance was manifest and my life is filledwith peace and gratitude and freedom from sin and i have entered,by faith ,his rest. And dont ever want to leave.

If i was just speaking a theory i would swayfrom it at every wind that blew. But it is not a theory but an actual ongoing life now.. A life Jesus died on the cross to procure for us to enter into.
But we must hear him ..listen tohim ..obey him.. And he will always lead us to greener pasture..always heaven ward.

 

[Alithis]

You deny your sin of acting in an unloving manner as Jesus commands. Saying Liar Liar pants on fire is taunting, it is not said out of love. Of course it's a sin.

Alithis, you have a very weakened view of what sin actually is. I began a new thread on what is sin to help teach you and here is a most excellent reply by someone:

What is the Law?

The Law is the will of God - flowing from His absolute perfection and justice. It is, in essence, that we be as He is - not in terms of essence but character.

Psalm 51:5 "I was sinful at birth"

Genesis 8:21, "Every inclination of man's heart is evil from childhood."

Romans 5:12, "Sin entered the world through one man's sin, and death through sin, and therefore death came to all men for all have sinned."

First John 3:4, "Sin is lawlessness"

Romans 3:12, "There is no one who does good, not even one."

Mark 10:18, "There is none who is good but God exclusively."

First John 1:10, "If we claim we have no sin, we make God a liar and His word is not in us."



What does the Law mandate?

Essentially, that our character be identical to His.


Matthew 5:48, "You must be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect."

1 Peter 1:16, "You must be holy even as God in heaven is holy."

John 15:12, "Love all people just as I (Jesus) first loved you."

Ephesians 4:32, "forgiving one another, just as God in Christ first forgave you."

First John 2:6, "Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did."

Philippians 2:5, "You must have the same attitude that Christ did."



Historically, Christians have spoken of ORIGINAL and ACTUALIZED sin.....

Original: The inclination, the propensity, that DISEASE that means we are self-centered, egotistical, self-serving, rebellious. It's what is in our hearts that LEADS to sins, it is the root of sin. When a man shoots his boss, the "problem" didn't start with the bullet entering the guys' chest, it began with something deep in the heart of the shooter - which LEAD to the chain of things that ultimately meant his pointed his gun and pulled the trigger. If I have a cold, I may sneeze. The sneeze is not the disease, it flows from the disease (which I may have even if I'm not sneezing at that microsecond; even if I take enough pills to never sneeze I still have a cold).

Actualized: These are the symptoms. They may be our thoughts or our words or our deeds. They may be known (observed) or not (even the sinner may not be aware of them). They may be thoughts or words of deeds we SHOULD have had but didn't (being imperfect)... they may be thoughts or words or deeds we should NOT have had but did (being sinful).



There are different kinds of Law in the OT
.....


Moral Law: Governs behaviors and our relationships to God, each other and our environment. This still applies.

Ceremonial Law: Governs all the ceremonial aspects of the Old Covenant such as the building of the Ark, clothes priests are to wear, not eating certain foods, observing certain Old Covenant festivals, etc. This does not apply.

Civil Law: Governs the state affairs of the ancient kingdom of the Jews, the divine mandates to the kings vis-a-vis political and international relations. This ceased when Israel fell in 722 BC and Judea fell in 587 BC.

Is that it..? Thats all you got..
You accuse me of sinning because you posted a deceptive untruth to mislead others(better known as a lie) and because i called it what it is ..im acting unloving..and thats a sin? Nope it would be missing the mark to not speak up,
Have you ever known godly love to accept lies..nope godly love always but always speaks the truth.
You accusations are merely attempts to excuse you own action.but there is no need. unless of cours. You did something wrong..in which case ,take it to the lord.im not your judge.iforgave it way back..its you that keeps bringing it up again.
..
The rest of your post is single vereses patched together out of thier context.followed by religious waffle.
I do like that word waffle dont i...
Waffles are seemingly substantial peices of food but when you bite into them,,theres nothing really there.

So any way...
How about the other questionthats been avoided by almost every one on the thread...

Which part of this following text do you disagree with?
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. For one who has died has been set free from sin. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.
For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Lamb]

Is that it..? Thats all you got..
You accuse me of sinning because you posted a deceptive untruth to mislead others(better known as a lie) and because i called it what it is ..im acting unloving..and thats a sin? Nope it would be missing the mark to not speak up,
Have you ever known godly love to accept lies..nope godly love always but always speaks the truth.
You accusations are merely attempts to excuse you own action.but there is no need. unless of cours. You did something wrong..in which case ,take it to the lord.im not your judge.iforgave it way back..its you that keeps bringing it up again.
..
The rest of your post is single vereses patched together out of thier context.followed by religious waffle.
I do like that word waffle dont i...
Waffles are seemingly substantial peices of food but when you bite into them,,theres nothing really there.

So any way...
How about the other questionthats been avoided by almost every one on the thread...

Which part of this following text do you disagree with?
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. For one who has died has been set free from sin. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.
For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I asked you to clarify something and instead you were unloving in your response and you say it's not sin to do it. You need to take that to Jesus in prayer since taunting your neighbor and then claiming it's in the name of Jesus is not holy living. It is not godly love to your neighbor. Do you see yet how you remain stuck in this sin and claim it's not?

 

[Alithis]

I asked you to clarify something and instead you were unloving in your response and you say it's not sin to do it. You need to take that to Jesus in prayer since taunting your neighbor and then claiming it's in the name of Jesus is not holy living. It is not godly love to your neighbor. Do you see yet how you remain stuck in this sin and claim it's not?

oh i replied plenty clear enough and testified of the journey that led me to my walk in the lord today..,and have testified of that journey openly and often .you just dont like that my reply wasn't what you wanted to hear.
so now we can stop the personal banter and return to the topic.


this text below is a summary of everything i have been saying

Which part of this following text do you disagree with?
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. For one who has died has been set free from sin. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.
What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.
For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Lamb]

oh i replied plenty clear enough and testified of the journey that led me to my walk in the lord today..,and have testified of that journey openly and often .you just dont like that my reply wasn't what you wanted to hear.
so now we can stop the personal banter and return to the topic.

Of course being unkind to your neighbor in a taunting way is a sin yet you think you were fine in your response. Think again. It's also against site rules so think again about that too.

Luke 6:31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.
This is a Christian site and members are expected to act with respect toward others.
Flaming or personal attacks will not be tolerated.

As for your OP, you don't know to distinguish between Law and Gospel. You don't see your own sins even when pointed out to you and yet you remain in them. And yes, it's been pointed out to you.

 

[TurtleHare]

Did not say what you presented here. not even close. You added in entire sentances of your own. Very dishonest.

I said the holy spirit convicts us of sin.
So if he is not doing so ..it is because. We are not doing a sin he needs to convict us of.
He is holy..he does not turn a blind eye ,he does not excuse unrightousness.

Jesus said if you love him ..you will obey him.
Can you testify of when he told you to sin the sin you imply you cant but actually wont) stop sinning.
All the time you attacking me.
But you refuse to adress the topic or the scripture.
So.. I will give you the scripture YET AGAIN..

Turtlehare: Which part of this do you NOT Agree with..?
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. For one who has died has been set free from sin. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.
For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Here's what you wrote, so you better not be calling ME dishonest!~

its a fair comment .
so lets look at it.

we are always to work out our salvation with fer and trembling .. with reverence ,ever desiring to walk in the narrow path the the lord has graciously returned us to .he being the gate of the sheep fold and the door to that path that leads to life .

when it comes to ambiguous unintentional sin
firstly the word unintentioned .. shows there was no will involved this there was noi chosen act of rebellion against the holy Spirit
-and then - you use the term sin we do not know about .. if we do not know about it then how is it sin..
adman and eve did not know they were naked ..in their innocence they walked without shame . in christ and the new nature of the holy spirit which he places in us we are reconciled to god in peace
we know the holy Spirit will convict us of sin .. so where he does not do so we need not be concerned for we once again by the blood of christ walk in innocence .

but when he convicts us .. and he tells us very plainly that what we are intending to do IS sin.. then we must rebel against him in order to Do that sin .

So it brings us full circle BACK to obeying or disobeying the holy Spirit .. not walking according to a set of ordinances. but having died into christ's death we are free from that law to now live in the law of the spirit of life ..which is to listen to and obey the holy Spirit .
and again- since he TELLS US what is right to do and convicts us if we are getting it wrong -- we cannot commit unintentional sin we do not know about as long as we HAVE the Holy Spirit to listen to and obey -because he convicts us of sin that we might turn from it ..

it is truly a wondrous salvation the lord has reconciled us to god with ..it is full it is not partial .
all the more reason that we should walk in it as the scriptures continuously instruct and admonish us to do.

 

[Josiah]

Is that it..? Thats all you got..
You accuse me of sinning because you posted a deceptive untruth to mislead others(better known as a lie) and because i called it what it is ..im acting unloving..and thats a sin? Nope it would be missing the mark to not speak up,
Have you ever known godly love to accept lies..nope godly love always but always speaks the truth.
You accusations are merely attempts to excuse you own action.but there is no need. unless of cours. You did something wrong..in which case ,take it to the lord.im not your judge.iforgave it way back..its you that keeps bringing it up again.
..
The rest of your post is single vereses patched together out of thier context.followed by religious waffle.
I do like that word waffle dont i...
Waffles are seemingly substantial peices of food but when you bite into them,,theres nothing really there.

So any way...
How about the other questionthats been avoided by almost every one on the thread...

Which part of this following text do you disagree with?
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. For one who has died has been set free from sin. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.
For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1. We're still waiting for the list of at least 10 living Christians who are PERFECT just as and to the same extend that God is heaven is perfect, HOLY just as and to the same extent that God in heaven is holy, LOVING to all 7.3 billion people just as and to the same extent as Christ on the Cross, who have made disciples of ALL people, etc. These obedient people you claim all Christians are. And imply that you are. There are 2.2 billion people who claim to be Christians, now of 2.2 billion surely you can come up with 10 that prove your theology, your point.


2. How about JUST YOU? Are you obedient to all God mandates? Do YOU fulfill all in point 1 above? Do YOU make Scripture a liar when it states that NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one? When it states that ALL fall short? When it says that NO ONE is good? Are you THAT superior to St. Paul who refers to himself as the CHIEF of sinners? Are YOU proof of your theology? See First John 1:10 (but perhaps you think Scripture is wrong there, too)

What is the Law?

The Law is the will of God - flowing from His absolute perfection and justice. It is, in essence, that we be as He is - not in terms of essence but character.


Psalm 51:5 "I was sinful at birth"

Genesis 8:21, "Every inclination of man's heart is evil from childhood."

Romans 5:12, "Sin entered the world through one man's sin, and death through sin, and therefore death came to all men for all have sinned."

First John 3:4, "Sin is lawlessness"

Romans 3:12, "There is no one who does good, not even one."

Mark 10:18, "There is none who is good but God exclusively."

First John 1:10, "If we claim we have no sin, we make God a liar and His word is not in us."



What does the Law mandate?

Essentially, that our character be identical to His.



Matthew 5:48, "You must be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect."

1 Peter 1:16, "You must be holy even as God in heaven is holy."

John 15:12, "Love all people just as I (Jesus) first loved you."

Ephesians 4:32, "forgiving one another, just as God in Christ first forgave you."

First John 2:6, "Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did."

Philippians 2:5, "You must have the same attitude that Christ did."



Historically, Christians have spoken of ORIGINAL and ACTUALIZED sin.....

Original: The inclination, the propensity, that DISEASE that means we are self-centered, egotistical, self-serving, rebellious. It's what is in our hearts that LEADS to sins, it is the root of sin. When a man shoots his boss, the "problem" didn't start with the bullet entering the guys' chest, it began with something deep in the heart of the shooter - which LEAD to the chain of things that ultimately meant his pointed his gun and pulled the trigger. If I have a cold, I may sneeze. The sneeze is not the disease, it flows from the disease (which I may have even if I'm not sneezing at that microsecond; even if I take enough pills to never sneeze I still have a cold).

Actualized: These are the symptoms. They may be our thoughts or our words or our deeds. They may be known (observed) or not (even the sinner may not be aware of them). They may be thoughts or words of deeds we SHOULD have had but didn't (being imperfect)... they may be thoughts or words or deeds we should NOT have had but did (being sinful).



There are different kinds of Law in the OT

Moral Law: Governs behaviors and our relationships to God, each other and our environment. This still applies.

Ceremonial Law: Governs all the ceremonial aspects of the Old Covenant such as the building of the Ark, clothes priests are to wear, not eating certain foods, observing certain Old Covenant festivals, etc. This does not apply.

Civil Law: Governs the state affairs of the ancient kingdom of the Jews, the divine mandates to the kings vis-a-vis political and international relations. This ceased when Israel fell in 722 BC and Judea fell in 587 BC.





.

Pax CHRISTI



- Josiah





.

 

[Alithis]

Of course being unkind to your neighbor in a taunting way is a sin yet you think you were fine in your response. Think again. It's also against site rules so think again about that too.

Luke 6:31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.
This is a Christian site and members are expected to act with respect toward others.
Flaming or personal attacks will not be tolerated.

As for your OP, you don't know to distinguish between Law and Gospel. You don't see your own sins even when pointed out to you and yet you remain in them. And yes, it's been pointed out to you.

Again..though tedious.if it is in your estimation a sin to call out a lie (or as you ambiguously imply "be unkind to your nieghbor by telling them the truth) though i see no command in the word of God sayong not to do so and see the lord jesus do so often .one must note that your self defense has drawn you into the UNIntended error of implying the apostles and the lord jesus kept sinning every time they unkindly spoke the truth of a matter.
I do not see the comnand in regard to a measure of what is sin that says "thou shalt not speak the truth" .so is Gods rightousness forfeited simply because the hearer does not enjoy what they hear and only wants to hear sweet words. Nope it is not.and since his rightousness is never violated by speaking the truth at any time for the truth sets free.then it is love to speak it. I have known the fruit of halftruths (lies) ,those who speak kindly to protect a child from pain ,they are lied to in earthly wisdom.who then must have the sting of betrayel added to thier pain later when they learn the truth. It is Never a sin to speak truth.no matter how unpalatable to the heaerer.

Now if your all done with the personal attack against me ..
Perhaps you can return to the question i have posed many times now..
Since romans ch 6 is a good summary of everything i have said on this thread..
Which part of romans ch 6 Are you disagreeing with ?

Which part of this following text do you disagree with?
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. For one who has died has been set free from sin. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.
What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.
For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.


Sent from my LG-V500 using Tapatalk

 

[Alithis]

Here's what you wrote, so you better not be calling ME dishonest!~

thanks ..for the repost . i said you added in words i did not say and that was dishonest. i stand by everything in the post presented in its correct context and advice you to read 1 John ch 3.in reference to our consince not condemning us .

YOU stated ... "In a previous post pages back in this thread, Alithis wrote that if the Holy Spirit didn't convict him of sin that he was innocent since if he didn't know he was committing a sin that he wasn't guilty yet "

but what i actually said is " we know the holy Spirit will convict us of sin .., so where he does not do so ,we need not be concerned for we ,once again, by the blood of christ, walk in innocence .but when he convicts us .. and he tells us very plainly that what we are intending to do IS sin.. then we must rebel against him in order to Do that sin ."

you see when we walk IN THE SPIRIT to obey him he says to us 'this is the way ..walk in it " he tells us before hand if what our heart is planning is of the flesh that we might put it to death and not obey it and he leads us ALWAYS in the path of LIFE . so it remains when we continue to do actions which we unambiguously know to be sin.. we are nither repentance nor obedient to the Gospel nor are we being transformed into the image of Christ nor are we abiding in christ nor are we being fruitful .. and we will be cut off from the vine as a fruitless branch we will have the door shut on us and the lord will say 'i do not know you ,you workers of iniquity ' there shall be weeig and gnashing of teeth .
so as to the thread topic .. are we c]saved if we continue in sin.. NOPE .

now how about addressing that annoying questions we've all ignored ..
Which part of this following text do you disagree with?
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. For one who has died has been set free from sin. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.
What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.
For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Lamb]

Yes, it's extremely tedious when someone name calls and then tries to repeatedly defend his rudeness and unloving behavior by attempting to say it was in the name of truth. Name calling is not condoned by scripture in that attitude and you need to learn the difference. What if I called you a jerk because your behavior was poor? It was done in truth so does that make it right?

I asked you to clarify your post. You didn't like the way I asked it but that's how I did it so deal with it. There was absolutely no need for you to reply in the unloving, childish taunt of "liar liar pants on fire" which again I remind you is against site rules.

So do you want to reconsider that this wasn't done out of love or in truth? Christians don't respond like that to others in the name of Christ. They respond in love and that means in tone as well and you need to learn that.

Again..though tedious.if it is in your estimation a sin to call out a lie (or as you ambiguously imply "be unkind to your nieghbor by telling them the truth) though i see no command in the word of God sayong not to do so and see the lord jesus do so often .one must note that your self defense has drawn you into the UNIntended error of implying the apostles and the lord jesus kept sinning every time they unkindly spoke the truth of a matter.
I do not see the comnand in regard to a measure of what is sin that says "thou shalt not speak the truth" .so is Gods rightousness forfeited simply because the hearer does not enjoy what they hear and only wants to hear sweet words. Nope it is not.and since his rightousness is never violated by speaking the truth at any time for the truth sets free.then it is love to speak it. I have known the fruit of halftruths (lies) ,those who speak kindly to protect a child from pain ,they are lied to in earthly wisdom.who then must have the sting of betrayel added to thier pain later when they learn the truth. It is Never a sin to speak truth.no matter how unpalatable to the heaerer.

Now if your all done with the personal attack against me ..
Perhaps you can return to the question i have posed many times now..
Since romans ch 6 is a good summary of everything i have said on this thread..
Which part of romans ch 6 Are you disagreeing with ?

Which part of this following text do you disagree with?
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. For one who has died has been set free from sin. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.
What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.
For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.


Sent from my LG-V500 using Tapatalk

 

[TurtleHare]

Alithis, I agree with scripture and what I disagree with is YOUR interpretation which is a twisting of Law and Gospel and is what others have tried to correct you on and have responded to what you keep on copying and pasting and you don't want to hear it. If you might actually take some time to read what the posts are saying to you then you'd get it but you're too busy thinking you no longer sin which is dishonest.

 

[Alithis]

Yes, it's extremely tedious when someone name calls and then tries to repeatedly defend his rudeness and unloving behavior by attempting to say it was in the name of truth. Name calling is not condoned by scripture in that attitude and you need to learn the difference. What if I called you a jerk because your behavior was poor? It was done in truth so does that make it right?

I asked you to clarify your post. You didn't like the way I asked it but that's how I did it so deal with it. There was absolutely no need for you to reply in the unloving, childish taunt of "liar liar pants on fire" which again I remind you is against site rules.

So do you want to reconsider that this wasn't done out of love or in truth? Christians don't respond like that to others in the name of Christ. They respond in love and that means in tone as well and you need to learn that.

you require my repentance from the form of reply which offended you ? if in order that you may forgive me that is good
if it is so that you might condemn me then its just accusations for the sake of being an accuser .
if the form of rebuke i used against you offended you, i apologize for the form of rebuke i used -i do not apologize for "the rebuke" for it was called for .but i apologize for the form of rebuke i used .
there is NEVER anything unloving about speaking the truth . If the truth offends you then accept it . the pharisees refused to accept it, holding rather to the offence ,so much so that they crucified the lord for speaking the truth .


now.. if YET again we can return to the topic ..

romans ch 6 is a great summary of everything i have been saying in this thread .

so i ASK AGAIN ..to all and any one .


Which part of this following text do you disagree with?
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. For one who has died has been set free from sin. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.
What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.
For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Lamb]

I forgive you for your bad behavior toward me.

 

[Rens]

Are we saved if we remain in Him? Yes! Problem solved.
Thanks btw Alithis, I'm back on track again. I hardly prayed anymore.

 

[visionary]

Are we saved if we remain in Him? Yes! Problem solved.
Thanks btw Alithis, I'm back on track again. I hardly prayed anymore.

Prayer and listening for God to speak to your heart... saying Yes, Lord here I am... goes a long way towards a working relationship.

 

[TurtleHare]

How about rather Yes Lord there you are? That goes a lot further.

 

[psalms 91]

Depends on what you are listening for