are we saved if we remain in sin -? no

[Alithis]

Just answer the question and don't flame.

you said "Alithis claims he no longer sins."-that is not a question it is a false statement ..i said i no longer do that which i unambiguously know to be sin,because Jesus set me free so that i do not have to any more it has no dominion over me ,so why should i do that which i have been set free of doing ?


then you said "At least that's what a few of us are reading." but to read that you have to twist my words ,not read them with a desire to remain in sin.. but with a desire to not only know about freedom from sin in christ but actually walk in it yourselves .you should be excited by what i am reminding you,, that christ can to set you free so you dont have to serve sin any more ..you dont have to come back to him time and time again ashamed because you sinned that sin again . Everyone knows "the sin" i speak of .. it may be different for each .. but you know what it is for you .. otherwise you would not keep saying ..?christians sin"- you are ,in truth of heart, speaking about a particular sin you keep committing yourself and you know you do because you call it "sin"

then ..you finally get to the question asking
"Is that true Alithis? Could you confirm or deny please?"- and i need not reply for if you read my posts you will see how i testified already of my sin after being saved and of the lord showing me i only still did that sin because i loved doing it more then i loved obeying him .. and how he called me to repent of it and taught me to love him more and brought me out of it so that Now i do not do it any more and i will not do it any more because i "will" not to . (i dont want to - remember the anguish it caused me over and over and over and i dont desire to ever know that anguish again..so i dont desire to ever do that sin which caused that anguish )
and i greatly rejoice in this freedom christ has purchased for me by his own blood,..because now that i walk free from that sins hindrance, i am able all the more to walk in obedience to the holy Spirit.. and i KNOW that as long as i listen to and obey the holy Spirit .. i cannot sin .. because he will NEVER EVER lead me to do so, he cannot ,

and again .. ( i repeat myself so often but many are hard of hearing ) does that mean I cannot sin because the nature of the holy Spirit in me cannot sin.. ? NO ..it means i can sin if i will to , but i do not will to, for i will love my lord who so graciously set me free ..

this must excite you that what he has done for me he has done for you also ..
how i longed for this freedom .. how i longed to be free of that endless cycle of effort and failure effort and failure and now i am free ..
for i no longer do that sin, and that cycle is ended and i have entered into his rest . i now abide in faith because i have ceased striving against him..

because people forget ,.. when you do an action you know to be sin.. you must strive AGAINST the Holy Spirit who is telling you not to do it .. and this striving is tiresome burdensome and brings death .

but obedience brings freedom from striving in disobedience, and brings life and peace and rest ..
i no longer need strive again,. for i have surrendered to God and sin no longer rules over me that i should obey it

JEsus set me free
and this is what he has always desired for you and me .. for all who will obey the gospel. ]

for if we are still returning to do that action we KNOW is a sin .. then we are still warring AGAINST the spirit of god and have not yet entered into his rest .

but GOOD NEWS ..repent , be baptised for the remission of your sin and you shall receive the holy ghost -whom you can then listen to and obey and rest in and be at peace with god and no longer at enmity with him.

 

[TurtleHare]

tut tut .. liar liar pants on fire .. read the thread more carefully.

Tut tut...look who got caught mocking his neighbor with name calling and not following Jesus command of loving your neighbors. Now we have all seen you do this before on this site which usually is a sign of a person's personality and that is showing everyone that you are stuck in this sin of not loving your neighbors as yourself and that is maybe because you have too much pride.

Since we see that you cannot obey Jesus and love your neighbors as yourself does that mean you arr not saved or are you going to change your theology to save face? Caught you Alithis. You sin just like the rest of us sinful humans and you can't stop can you? Are yoi saved since you remain in sin? Be honest as you command everyone else the proof is evident for all to see.

 

[Josiah]

you seem bent on opposing Any concept of repentance of sin.

Not at all, I just don't make my obedience the cause of my justification (narrow) NOR do I claim that I make Scripture a liar when it states that NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one - because I am (being the one obedient human on the planet).

I believe that JESUS is THE Savior (in the sense of justification narrow) - thus, I'm not. It has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with MY obedience, MY perfection, MY holiness, MY love, MY works (making Jesus a sad joke.... and making Jewish and Islamic soteriology correct rather than Christianity's). And that as one with the gift of faith (and thus justification), I'm NOT ergo void of sin and therefore void of any need for Christ, the Cross, the Blood, mercy, forgiveness, repentance because I'M absolutely, divinely PERFECT and HOLY and LOVING 24/7, every microsecond. THAT'S what we disagree on - your constant, perpetual insistence that justification results from OUR obedience, and that those justified have no sin.

but be encouraged you won't die if you stop that particular sin..

Actually, we ALL die because we ALL sin (well, I know you claim to be sinless and thus will never die), but in Christ, we have life beyond death - NOT because we were perfect but because CHRIST is..... not because we are good but because GOD is.... not because we love all perfectly but because CHRIST does.... not because we merit it (at all!) but because of mercy.... MERCY...... in view of the Blood of the Lamb.




I'm still waiting for that list of just 10 of the 2.2 billion Christians who are void of sin as you insist Christians are (and must be).




Pax CHRISTI



- Josiah

 

[Alithis]

Not at all, I just don't make my obedience the cause of my justification (narrow) NOR do I claim that I make Scripture a liar when it states that NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one - because I am (being the one obedient human on the planet).

I believe that JESUS is THE Savior (in the sense of justification narrow) - thus, I'm not. It has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with MY obedience, MY perfection, MY holiness, MY love, MY works (making Jesus a sad joke.... and making Jewish and Islamic soteriology correct rather than Christianity's). And that as one with the gift of faith (and thus justification), I'm NOT ergo void of sin and therefore void of any need for Christ, the Cross, the Blood, mercy, forgiveness, repentance because I'M absolutely, divinely PERFECT and HOLY and LOVING 24/7, every microsecond. THAT'S what we disagree on - your constant, perpetual insistence that justification results from OUR obedience, and that those justified have no sin.





Actually, we ALL die because we ALL sin (well, I know you claim to be sinless and thus will never die), but in Christ, we have life beyond death - NOT because we were perfect but because CHRIST is..... not because we are good but because GOD is.... not because we love all perfectly but because CHRIST does.... not because we merit it (at all!) but because of mercy.... MERCY...... in view of the Blood of the Lamb.




I'm still waiting for that list of just 10 of the 2.2 billion Christians who are void of sin as you insist Christians are (and must be).




Pax CHRISTI



- Josiah

and here lays your utter contradiction.
on one hand you say your are justifies by faith .. -forgiven ..
the scriptures states that all record of wrong is wiped out so every believer who has been forgiven has no record of sin against them what so ever

-until they resist the holy spirit disobey him and go and sin again .

"neither do i condemn you ,now Go.. and sin no more "- Jesus .

 

[Josiah]

and here lays your utter contradiction.
on one hand you say your are justifies by faith .. -forgiven ..
the scriptures states that all record of wrong is wiped out so every believer who has been forgiven has no record of sin against them what so ever

Which means we are FORGIVEN, not that we don't sin. Apples and oranges. WHOLE different enchilada.

"either do i condemn you ,now Go.. and sin no more "- Jesus .

It's called LAW. Yes, again, NO ONE here has REMOTELY indicated that a letter of the law is terminated. But remember: NO ONE keeps the Law. NO ONE is good but God alone. NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one (which I suspect is why you CANNOT give me that list of 10 perfect living people!). The Law directs us to how we should live.... it provides a goal.... but NO ONE attains it, which is WHY we CONTINUE to NEED Christ, the Cross, the Blood, MERCY, forgiveness - because your whole premise is false: Christians do NOT obey Him, we SIN. Christians do NOT save themselves by their perfection and holiness (whether empowered by God or otherwise), we are saved BY CHRIST (HIS perfection and holiness, HIS life and death and resurrection, HIS works, HIS obedience).




.

 

[Alithis]

Tut tut...look who got caught mocking his neighbor with name calling and not following Jesus command of loving your neighbors. Now we have all seen you do this before on this site which usually is a sign of a person's personality and that is showing everyone that you are stuck in this sin of not loving your neighbors as yourself and that is maybe because you have too much pride.

Since we see that you cannot obey Jesus and love your neighbors as yourself does that mean you arr not saved or are you going to change your theology to save face? Caught you Alithis. You sin just like the rest of us sinful humans and you can't stop can you? Are you saved since you remain in sin? Be honest as you command everyone else the proof is evident for all to see.

the statement i replied to was a lie . thus i called it what it is .it is not loving to lie .it is loving to speak the truth , truth is harsh sometimes -it cuts .did i sin to do so .. nope . (this goes back to my discussion on some of the weird things people think sin is .
did i reply in the most gracious manner possible .. NO .. but that is not sin .
i observed that for quite some pages now those who do not want to deal with the topic of repentance and ceasing from their own sin have turned the thread into attacking me ..THAT in itself says a lot . you wont answer to me ,Im only repeating gods word

you are simply acting as devils advocate to accuse .your not discussing the topic .in fact most of your posts here are simply personal digs at me the person .
i repeat the scriptures to you and you attempt to accuse me and condemn me for doing so .. had you a cross handy i sense you would nail me to it to silence me .

you say with one hand you love god and then you imply you must sin and cant stop and will do so ..
so you imply Jeuss has not set you free .. but you wil find the truth is ..if you truly believe what he has done for you and if you put your FAITH in him that he will lead you OUT of sinful practice (and swiftly ) and caue you to walk in His righteousness andto over come as HE has overcome .

its good news .

 

[psalms 91]

I understqand what you are tryiing to say Altheis but the truth is we all sin daily, that is a fact and scripture tells us so. We need a saviour every day, the goal is to be more like Jesus andhopefully we are moving towards that but we all fall short

 

[Alithis]

Which means we are FORGIVEN, not that we don't sin. Apples and oranges. WHOLE different enchilada.





It's called LAW. Yes, again, NO ONE here has REMOTELY indicated that a letter of the law is terminated. But remember: NO ONE keeps the Law. NO ONE is good but God alone. NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one (which I suspect is why you CANNOT give me that list of 10 perfect living people!). The Law directs us to how we should live.... it provides a goal.... but NO ONE attains it, which is WHY we CONTINUE to NEED Christ, the Cross, the Blood, MERCY, forgiveness - because your whole premise is false: Christians do NOT obey Him, we SIN. Christians do NOT save themselves by their perfection and holiness (whether empowered by God or otherwise), we are saved BY CHRIST (HIS perfection and holiness, HIS life and death and resurrection, HIS works, HIS obedience).




.

since you refuse to read entire posts in context
and since you persist in snipping single sentences out to misrepresent them in a dishonest nature .presenting them out of the context in which they are presented .
i must assume you have simply returned to the practice of attacking me ,
perhaps to appease your conscience.

no one has said the things your are presenting in your above post .for without his grace and what he has done we are not able to obey ..obedience is the evidence that what he has done is made effectual in your life .

if you are continuing in the practice of Sin the it is not yet made effectual in your life
you are disobeying the good news .you have not yet repented , you have not yet been buried into his death by baptism according to the scripture and you have not yet received the baptism of the holy Spirit and thus cannot and do not desire yo be free from your sin preferring rather to continue in it and attempt to justify doing so at every step of the way -you remain at enmity

And since ,again. you refuse to deal with the topic and persist in dishonest misrepresentation
it is best i end discourse with you , i mean george and i disagree vehemently but i don't have to place him on ignore because he does not turn our point of disagreement into a personal barrage of false unsubstantiated accusations .
So back on ignore you go for a while .

and i encourage you ..if you dont like seeing me repeat the scriptures (i posted the entire 4 chapters of romans in the other thread )then feel free to place me on ignore also

 

[Josiah]

Which means we are FORGIVEN, not that we don't sin, that we are obedient. Apples and oranges. WHOLE different enchilada.





It's called LAW. Yes, again, NO ONE here has REMOTELY indicated that a letter of the law is terminated. But remember: NO ONE keeps the Law. NO ONE is good but God alone. NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one (which I suspect is why you CANNOT give me that list of 10 perfect living people!). The Law directs us to how we should live.... it provides a goal.... but NO ONE attains it, which is WHY we CONTINUE to NEED Christ, the Cross, the Blood, MERCY, forgiveness - because your whole premise is false: Christians do NOT obey Him, we SIN. Christians do NOT save themselves by their perfection and holiness (whether empowered by God or otherwise), we are saved BY CHRIST (HIS perfection and holiness, HIS life and death and resurrection, HIS works, HIS obedience).



.

for without his grace and what he has done we are not able to obey .

Whether we are ABLE to obey or not is irrelevant, because we don't. NO CHRISTIAN DOES. NO PAGAN DOES. NO ONE. Your entangling justification with sanctification, Gospel with law has lead you to this very wrong idea that we save ourselves by becoming obedient, sinless, perfect. It's wrong on both counts. We NEVER save yourselves (making Jesus a sad, bad joke... irrelevant, a waste) - with or without help. Jesus is the Savior. You are not. Not now, not ever. Not of you, not of anyone. Not in whole, not in part. AND you aren't obedient, NO ONE IS. NO ONE is good but God alone. NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one. Your entangling and confusing has lead you to persistently proclaim these wrong things: justification is the result of OUR obedience..... WE obey (and thus need no justification).

obedience is the evidence that what he has done is made effectual in your life

Then He failed because no one is obedient. No one is good. No one is rightous, No one does what is right. With Paul, we must confess that we are CHIEF of sinners..... that what we wish we did, we do not.

So back on ignore you go for a while .

A good way to evade correction.




.

 

[TurtleHare]

the statement i replied to was a lie . thus i called it what it is .it is not loving to lie .it is loving to speak the truth , truth is harsh sometimes -it cuts .did i sin to do so .. nope . (this goes back to my discussion on some of the weird things people think sin is .
did i reply in the most gracious manner possible .. NO .. but that is not sin .
i observed that for quite some pages now those who do not want to deal with the topic of repentance and ceasing from their own sin have turned the thread into attacking me ..THAT in itself says a lot . you wont answer to me ,Im only repeating gods word

you are simply acting as devils advocate to accuse .your not discussing the topic .in fact most of your posts here are simply personal digs at me the person .
i repeat the scriptures to you and you attempt to accuse me and condemn me for doing so .. had you a cross handy i sense you would nail me to it to silence me .

you say with one hand you love god and then you imply you must sin and cant stop and will do so ..
so you imply Jeuss has not set you free .. but you wil find the truth is ..if you truly believe what he has done for you and if you put your FAITH in him that he will lead you OUT of sinful practice (and swiftly ) and caue you to walk in His righteousness andto over come as HE has overcome .

its good news .

She asked you a question for confirmation and you responded not in a loving manner toward your neighbor but with nastiness in attitude and that was NOT Christ-like! You are a sinner and it's bad for you to pretend otherwise bit it's here for public scrutiny and you failed to live up to Jesus command for perfect obedience. Confess your sins and own up to it.

 

[TurtleHare]

Whether we are ABLE to obey or not is irrelevant, because we don't. NO CHRISTIAN DOES. NO PAGAN DOES. NO ONE. Your entangling justification with sanctification, Gospel with law has lead you to this very wrong idea that we save ourselves by becoming obedient, sinless, perfect. It's wrong on both counts. We NEVER save yourselves (making Jesus a sad, bad joke... irrelevant, a waste) - with or without help. Jesus is the Savior. You are not. Not now, not ever. Not of you, not of anyone. Not in whole, not in part. AND you aren't obedient, NO ONE IS. NO ONE is good but God alone. NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one. Your entangling and confusing has lead you to persistently proclaim these wrong things: justification is the result of OUR obedience..... WE obey (and thus need no justification).





Then He failed because no one is obedient. No one is good. No one is rightous, No one does what is right. With Paul, we must confess that we are CHIEF of sinners..... that what we wish we did, we do not.






A good way to evade correction.




.

He is choosing to hide because he is a sinner like the rest as proven with evidence above.

 

[Lamb]

you are ,in truth of heart, speaking about a particular sin you keep committing yourself and you know you do because you call it "sin"

No, when we say Christians sin we mean that we sin. Apparently you have a totally different definition of what sin is. It means to miss the mark. WE miss the mark because of original sin and because of our sinful actions in the things that we do and do not do. Your statements only indicate that you're controlling certain areas of your life and you think you're doing okay. It's fine that you've controlled some of your sinful urges and no one condemns you for that. Yet, you still sin. Do you love God with your whole heart? I doubt it. None of us can fully live up to that. Do you pray without ceasing? Nope. None of us do that. Do you sometimes think of yourself before God? Of course you do. We all do. We turn ourselves into little gods without even trying. You do it too but you are afraid to admit it. People don't like it pointed out to them and they get mad as you've gotten at Josiah here on the forum. He was pointing out what is biblical to you.

So please don't resort into childlike taunting as you did. It's not what God expects of His children and as Turtlehare mentioned, you have failed in your obedience to Him by not being perfect.

 

[Alithis]

No, when we say Christians sin we mean that we sin. Apparently you have a totally different definition of what sin is. It means to miss the mark. WE miss the mark because of original sin and because of our sinful actions in the things that we do and do not do. Your statements only indicate that you're controlling certain areas of your life and you think you're doing okay. It's fine that you've controlled some of your sinful urges and no one condemns you for that. Yet, you still sin. Do you love God with your whole heart? I doubt it. None of us can fully live up to that. Do you pray without ceasing? Nope. None of us do that. Do you sometimes think of yourself before God? Of course you do. We all do. We turn ourselves into little gods without even trying. You do it too but you are afraid to admit it. People don't like it pointed out to them and they get mad as you've gotten at Josiah here on the forum. He was pointing out what is biblical to you.

So please don't resort into childlike taunting as you did. It's not what God expects of His children and as Turtlehare mentioned, you have failed in your obedience to Him by not being perfect.

we miss the mark because of original sin? ...

oh so you're not born again yet then ?you're still under adam and not christ ?
you are not made a new creation in christ Jesus yet then ?

I'm not mad at josiah lol. i just know when a person is simply attacking me to detract from the topic .
you yourself are now doing so .with childish and dishonest accusations .

the point is- are we saved if we remain in sin .. and the answer still remains to be NO .
and THIS is the issue people are not liking .
they say with their lips that JEsus came to set us free ..then they also say they are slaves to sin and cant stop doing it ..An absolute contradiction.

so whom do you advice I listen to?.. thier contradictions ..or the word of God ?

the word of god plainly states that we are saved from sin so that we might NOT serve it any more ..we are set free so that we do not HAVE to do it any more.

so why oh why are people telling me i have to sin ? why should i do that which i unambiguously know to be sin..
please do tell me ..why must i do so ? - is it because you do and it will make you feel better if i do also ?
then we can both feel good and perish .

why are you 3 preaching that people who are set free from sin ..MUST continue to do so .. because that is the message your giving in your attempt to oppose the scriptures .

lets be reminded now of what the scriptures DO say ...


What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. For one who has died has been set free from sin. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.
For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Alithis]

I understqand what you are tryiing to say Altheis but the truth is we all sin daily, that is a fact and scripture tells us so. We need a saviour every day, the goal is to be more like Jesus andhopefully we are moving towards that but we all fall short

this insidious and ambiguous argument needs to be addressed ..
we are told if we walk in the spirit we will not fulfil the evil desires of the flesh ...
so which evil desires of the flesh did you fulfill today and why did you disobey the holy Spirit in order to do so ?

what sin did you commit today ? and more importantly who accused you of it being sin?
this was addressed very early on in the thread .. what some people perceive to be sin is merely the accuser of the brethren wanting to bring them down ..
and he is a liar .. we dont decise whther we have sinned or not based on what the liar says .But by what the holy Spirit ..who cannot sin or lie ..is speaking to us about and know that to disobey him who is telling us the right thing to do ..is sin .

it is not some blur of ambiguity of which we speak

did you tell a lie today ?
did you steal today
did you withhold urgent need from a neighbor today ?
did you despise god today ?
did you covet your neighbor's things and so go and act in a manner to obtain them ?
did you lust another's wife and so begin actions to take her unto yourself ?(being adultery and porn )
did you harbour hate in your heart so that you desire to bring about a persons unlawful death?
etc etc
these thing are not some ambiguous idea of sin.. they are clear distinct sin.
why on earth would we .. who are set free from the power they had over us .. now go and do them again ?

and that is why i ask ... and why i always [personalize the question.. when people say "all christians sin every day ..they cannot know that they cannot speak for all christians ..so they are making that statement based on their own life

so what sin is it you have committed or are planning in your heart to commit ? james states that we can only be tempted to sin if the desire to do so is in us .
we can be aware of the flesh and its desire .. but we are now given the POWER -not by our own doing but by the grace of god - to live after the spirit and not the flesh ..
and since we are set free .. we cannot say ,i could not help it -we cannot accidentally sin that sin which we know to be sin.
and we can CHOOSE to not do it .. jesus has made it possible .

we do not speak of some random bad thought that pops into your head when you had no intent nor premeditated will to think it .. that is just the flesh and the enemy .we simply shun such thoughts and bring them into subjection to the knowledge of Christ -we eschew evil we dont embrace it .

Jesus set us free to walk free
he didn not set us free to laugh in his face and go back to serving ehat he has set us free from.

to say we sin every day is merely a admission that we walk unrepentant every day
we remain in rebellion to God every day .
we ignore all he has done for us on the cross .

it does not ever have to be this way
i was ,past tense , this way but the lord worked in me GODLY repentance so that i do not do that sin any more ..

either we believe and so place our faith in him to do as he has promised
or we disbelieve and exercise no faith and remain in sin .

to be unrepentant of sin.. is to remain unsaved

 

[Alithis]

EVERYTHING and every reason the lord spoke his heart out and his word became flesh ..goes back to the sin of mankind .we are the reason for HIS suffering!

he hath borne our griefs

carried our sorrows

he was wounded for our transgressions

was bruised for our iniquities

The chastisement of our peace was upon him.

the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

for he shall bear their iniquities.

when we stop to consider that all he suffered, he suffered, to set us free for the very sin that caused him to suffer it.
how could we not forever seek to walk worthy of the freedom he has bought for us by his own blood shed in anguish and suffering .

how can we then so disdain all he has done for us to so lightly consider it of no import and go and do again that which he died in suffering to set us free from .
shame upon shame shall be to those who do that and refuse to repent .for they so disdain all the lord has done for them and repay him by continuing in the very sin he anguished to set them free from. and then have the gall to say they love him? .. love is not in words but in Actions -bring forth fruits of repentance .
for such it is who stand on word with out deed - who say we are strong and rich and need nothing and cannot see they are blind, naked, wretched and poor .luke warm to the core .

 

[Josiah]

the point is- are we saved if we remain in sin .. and the answer still remains to be NO .

Then AGAIN, yet AGAIN, either prove that Christians don't sin (I've made it simple, I've ONLY asked for a list of just TEN, only ten, of the 2.2 billion christians that you can prove NEVER sin, ALWAYS obey, ALWAYS are 100% divinely perfect, 100% divinely holy, 100% divinely loving. But you have persistently refused) OR no one is saved, Christ is irrelevant and a bad joke, and Christians are all headed for hell no less than any other. Which is it? Since you can't produce even ONE name of a sinless person (Christian or otherwise), I think the ONLY choice given your theology is all are hell-bound and you reject Christ and the Gospel.


But frankly, I'm convinced some preacher or teacher as SO totally confused you with some BAD theology that you have entangled, confused and mixed-up justification and sanctification, Gospel and Law, Christ and you - twisted and confused these SO much - so very, very much - that it has caused you (unwillingly, I suspect) to attack the Gospel, attack the very core of Christianity, making Christ as small as possible and making yourself as big as possible, making it all about YOU - YOUR obedience, YOUR holiness, YOUR righteousness, YOUR perfection, YOUR lack of need for justification, mercy, forgiveness.... you need no Christ, no Gospel, no Cross because you got you. THAT is what I find so dangerous, no horrible, so much in need of correction. I HOPE to bring you back to Christianity (and reality).

why are you 3 preaching that people who are set free from sin ..MUST continue to do so

NO ONE has said we "MUST" sin. Only that Scripture says we DO. "NO ONE is righteousness, no, not even one." "NO ONE is good, only God alone." "NO ONE does what is right."

But more critically, we are saying the Christ is the Savior. You are insisting that each saves self by making self not needing salvation (or God or Christ or the Cross or mercy) - by being "obedient" and "sinless."

But I think someone has completely confused you..... twisting, entangling, confusing Law and Gospel, leading you out of Christianity. And, I admit, these is a very disturbing growing element in modern American "Evangelicalism" Very, very disturbing!




Pax CHRISTI




- Josiah






.

 

[psalms 91]

I think a distinction has to be made between unintentional sin and the sin that we know and do

 

[Josiah]

I think a distinction has to be made between unintentional sin and the sin that we know and do

Both are sin. Both are disobedience. Both are falling short. Both are NOT being righteous, NOT being good.

True.... some in Christian history (especially in Catholicism) make a distinction between what is intentional and premeditated and perhaps perpetual - and what is not, but regardless, it's SIN (Catholicism agrees). Anything that is not the will of God is sin. ANYTHING short of absolute divine perfection, holiness, love - ALL the time, in EVERY situation is sin.

Our justification (salvation in the narrow sense) is the result of CHRIST, not self..... CHRIST'S works, not ours..... CHRIST'S perfection, not ours..... CHRIST'S love, not ours, CHRIST'S obedience, not ours. CHRIST is the Savior, not self. And while the Law is not terminated by the Cross, nor is sin... it is FORGIVEN, not eliminated. For ALL sin.... for NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one.... for no one is good except God exclusively.... Paul is correct to state by inspiration that he is the CHIEF of SINNERS (as indeed, we all are).


Lord, have MERCY.
Christ, have MERCY.
Lord, have MERCY.





Pax CHRISTI



- Josiah

 

[Rens]

I told a lie yesterday. You can buy a family card for a kids park and then grandpa's and grandma's can go with the same card. So I gave the name of my parents and next time had to bring the pics. I said: Mom you can go too for free! What? We're not going there. We're way too old. Hm, well, the dad can go on the same card, but I'm divorced and it's so stupid to ask if he and his wife can go with the kids instead. I looked it up on internet if that was possible, but everything is for normal families and exes don't get that idea I think. So whatever, I just gave their pics instead.
Those are grandpa and grandma? she asked.
Yes.
I also had to laugh while saying it.
They won't go anyway. Not gonna change it. I said sorry Lord and left the lie intact. Is that grandpa? hahahahahahahaha

 

[Rens]