are we saved if we remain in sin -? no

[Josiah]

Thou shalt love the lord thy God with all thy heart and all thy mind and all thy strength...

DO YOU? Every microsecond from conception through death? IF so, then I understand your offense at the Gospel, your persistent rejection of the Gospel, the reason you don't mention Christ or the Cross or the Blood or mercy or grace, why you think justification is a matter of YOU being SINLESS and OBEDIENT (and why Christ is irrelevant, unnecessary, meaningless, a joke).

And the Law says you are to be PERFECT, morally PERFECT - just as and to the same extent that God in heaven is perfect. ARE YOU? IF so, then I understand your offense at the Gospel, your persistent rejection of the Gospel, the reason you don't mention Christ or the Cross or the Blood or mercy or grace, why you think justification is a matter of YOU being SINLESS and OBEDIENT (and why Christ is irrelevant, unnecessary, meaningless, a joke).

And the Law says that you must be HOLY just as and to the same extent that God in heaven is holy. ARE YOU? IF so, then I understand your offense at the Gospel, your persistent rejection of the Gospel, the reason you don't mention Christ or the Cross or the Blood or mercy or grace, why you think justification is a matter of YOU being SINLESS and OBEDIENT (and why Christ is irrelevant, unnecessary, meaningless, a joke).

And the Law says that you must LOVE the Lord your God with ALL (100%..... not 99.9999764%) of your heart and soul and mind - all of it, FILLED with that..... DO YOU? IF so, then I understand your offense at the Gospel, your persistent rejection of the Gospel, the reason you don't mention Christ or the Cross or the Blood or mercy or grace, why you think justification is a matter of YOU being SINLESS and OBEDIENT (and why Christ is irrelevant, unnecessary, meaningless, a joke).

And the Law says that you must LOVE all 2.2 billion people of the planet with the same love and to the same extent as Christ loved us from the Cross..... DO YOU? IF so, then I understand your offense at the Gospel, your persistent rejection of the Gospel, the reason you don't mention Christ or the Cross or the Blood or mercy or grace, why you think justification is a matter of YOU being SINLESS and OBEDIENT (and why Christ is irrelevant, unnecessary, meaningless, a joke).





.

 

[Alithis]

So, non-Christians may receive forgiveness in Christ? After all, according to you, if I sinned I'm not saved, so, according to you, the unsaved are forgiven. So, why be saved if being unsaved means I'm forgiven anyway?



Why is Scripture wrong when it says that NO ONE (that includes the 2.2 billion Christians), that NO ONE is righteous (sinless)... that NO ONE does what is right... NO ONE (that would include the 2.2 billion Christians), after all, according to you, those who sin aren't save, justified, and thus aren't Christians. Why was SAINT Paul wrong to pen (by inspiration) that he is the "CHIEF" of sinners, or do you claim that Paul was not a Christian?


Additional to contradicting Scripture, you obviously so completely confuse Law and Gospel, sanctification and justification, self and God - all in your very, very persistent and constant effort to make Christ as small as possible and yourself as BIG as possible. At least Catholics give Jesus SOME role (he helps them) but you never so much as mention the Christ, the Cross, the Blood, mercy, forgiveness.... just you..... just ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME and how you don't sin and thus don't need no God, no Christ, no Cross, no Savior cuz you got nothing to be saved from, nothing to be merciful toward, you got you.



Pax CHRISTI



- Josiah

twisting words there josiah .. very dishonest of you .you should not misrepresent what people say to suit your opinions .

 

[Alithis]

DO YOU? Every microsecond from conception through death? IF so, then I understand your offense at the Gospel, your persistent rejection of the Gospel, the reason you don't mention Christ or the Cross or the Blood or mercy or grace, why you think justification is a matter of YOU being SINLESS and OBEDIENT (and why Christ is irrelevant, unnecessary, meaningless, a joke).

And the Law says you are to be PERFECT, morally PERFECT - just as and to the same extent that God in heaven is perfect. ARE YOU? IF so, then I understand your offense at the Gospel, your persistent rejection of the Gospel, the reason you don't mention Christ or the Cross or the Blood or mercy or grace, why you think justification is a matter of YOU being SINLESS and OBEDIENT (and why Christ is irrelevant, unnecessary, meaningless, a joke).

And the Law says that you must be HOLY just as and to the same extent that God in heaven is holy. ARE YOU? IF so, then I understand your offense at the Gospel, your persistent rejection of the Gospel, the reason you don't mention Christ or the Cross or the Blood or mercy or grace, why you think justification is a matter of YOU being SINLESS and OBEDIENT (and why Christ is irrelevant, unnecessary, meaningless, a joke).

And the Law says that you must LOVE the Lord your God with ALL (100%..... not 99.9999764%) of your heart and soul and mind - all of it, FILLED with that..... DO YOU? IF so, then I understand your offense at the Gospel, your persistent rejection of the Gospel, the reason you don't mention Christ or the Cross or the Blood or mercy or grace, why you think justification is a matter of YOU being SINLESS and OBEDIENT (and why Christ is irrelevant, unnecessary, meaningless, a joke).

And the Law says that you must LOVE all 2.2 billion people of the planet with the same love and to the same extent as Christ loved us from the Cross..... DO YOU? IF so, then I understand your offense at the Gospel, your persistent rejection of the Gospel, the reason you don't mention Christ or the Cross or the Blood or mercy or grace, why you think justification is a matter of YOU being SINLESS and OBEDIENT (and why Christ is irrelevant, unnecessary, meaningless, a joke).





.

lol this is just misrepresented waffle -you so angry at the point that has been presented that your just doing a full on attack of me .as if somehow that will cancel the word of god - but sorry it wont .

you insist all christians sin.. as though they have no choice in the matter and cant ever stop .

and i show you the word of god -which states that Jesus came to set us FREE and return that choice to us ..
and since you can't speak for 'all" but know yourself ..you must be speaking of yourself first ..

and so the point of contention -.for i have asked you- 'what sin is it that you say you MUST keep doing ? what sin is it you are referring to that the lord Jesus , you imply .,has failed to set you free from ?

as to your above point .. firstly there is no record of wrongs against me from conception to rebirth..
and the errors i have made after i was born again i have been forgiven for and ceased to do again .thats is the whole point of conviction and correction and chastisement .

So ask those of the lord jesus who walked the earth as a man .to love the lord with all our heart is to obey him always in the one thing he is speaking to our hearts about .. he does not ask us 100 things at the same time .he is not unreasonable .. and as long as we obey him in the one things he is speaking to us about today we show our love for him .. as he said -if you love me you will obey me ..

so a good start would be to go and deal with the sin your being convicted about and trying to defend doing .. repent of doing ti receive forgiveness and go and sin no more .

it would be more productive then pointlessly attacking me .

 

[TurtleHare]

The sinless Alithis right is that what you're preaching to us all? The one and only human on this earth besides Jesus who can stop himself from ever sinning again and no longer needing a savior in his life because he is one himself.

 

[MoreCoffee]

The sinless Alithis right is that what you're preaching to us all? The one and only human on this earth besides Jesus who can stop himself from ever sinning again and no longer needing a savior in his life because he is one himself.

Well, there is Job who Jehovah testified to be perfect and upright. Maybe being perfect is not impossible for a human being if at least two achieved it.

 

[psalms 91]

again not sinless

 

[MoreCoffee]

again not sinless

Do you think that brother Alithis is claiming sinlessness for himself and that he is claiming to be born free of original sin too? One is not sinless simply by being free from sins right now. One can be sinless at this moment yet have sinned in the past. And who can you point to here and now on Earth who is untouched by original sin?

 

[Lamb]

Alithis claims he no longer sins. At least that's what a few of us are reading. Is that true Alithis? Could you confirm or deny please?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Alithis claims he no longer sins. At least that's what a few of us are reading. Is that true Alithis? Could you confirm or deny please?

But a claim like that is not a claim to be sinless.

 

[psalms 91]

Do you think that brother Alithis is claiming sinlessness for himself and that he is claiming to be born free of original sin too? One is not sinless simply by being free from sins right now. One can be sinless at this moment yet have sinned in the past. And who can you point to here and now on Earth who is untouched by original sin?

I hope not and I doubt that is what he is trying to say but it does appear that way

 

[MoreCoffee]

I hope not and I doubt that is what he is trying to say but it does appear that way

Some denominations teach that one can achieve sinless-perfection at some point in one's life. They do not teach that one can be completely sinless for the whole of one's life nor, as far as I know, that one can be free of original sin and hence no liable to death.

 

[Alithis]

Alithis claims he no longer sins. At least that's what a few of us are reading. Is that true Alithis? Could you confirm or deny please?

tut tut .. liar liar pants on fire .. read the thread more carefully.

 

[Josiah]

tut tut .. liar liar pants on fire .. read the thread more carefully.

Perhaps Alithis is claiming that he/she is not saved and is headed right for hell since he/she is not God and ergo not good (Mark 10:18), as Scripture says, "NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one." "NO ONE does what is right." That would seem to include Alithis. So, since his/her whole position is that we must be perfect in order to be justified, and since he/she isn't - ergo, like everyone else, he/she is headed right for hell (and Jesus was a sick joke, a waste of time).

OR....

Althis is like God alone - good, perfect, holy, loving just as God is. And thus, justified.


But I think our friend is SO, SO very confused, our friend has entirely confused, mixed-up, entangled Law and Gospel so as to become an (unintentional) enemy of the Gospel, attacking Christ and what He has done, and instead relating (well) the justification view of Judaism, Islam and some forms of Hinduism in opposition to Christianity, not even bothering to mention the Cross or the Blood or mercy (and typically, not even mentioning Christ). Someone has preached/taught this friend HORRIBLY and confused him/her utterly and tragically. I pray he/she READS things that are written and comes to know that Jesus saves. NOT self. Jesus is the obedient one, NOT self.





Pax CHRISTI



- Josiah

 

[MoreCoffee]

Perhaps Alithis is claiming that he/she is not saved and is headed right for hell since he/she is not God and ergo not good (Mark 10:18), as Scripture says, "NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one." "NO ONE does what is right." That would seem to include Alithis. So, since his/her whole position is that we must be perfect in order to be justified, and since he/she isn't - ergo, like everyone else, he/she is headed right for hell (and Jesus was a sick joke, a waste of time).
OR....
Althis is like God alone - good, perfect, holy, loving just as God is. And thus, justified.
But I think our friend is SO, SO very confused, our friend has entirely confused, mixed-up, entangled Law and Gospel so as to become an (unintentional) enemy of the Gospel, attacking Christ and what He has done, and instead relating (well) the justification view of Judaism, Islam and some forms of Hinduism in opposition to Christianity, not even bothering to mention the Cross or the Blood or mercy (and typically, not even mentioning Christ). Someone has preached/taught this friend HORRIBLY and confused him/her utterly and tragically. I pray he/she READS things that are written and comes to know that Jesus saves. NOT self. Jesus is the obedient one, NOT self.
Pax CHRISTI
- Josiah

Too mocking I think. Too unfair to what Alithis has written.

 

[Josiah]

Too mocking I think. Too unfair to what Alithis has written.

I can see why you - as a Catholic - can affirm SOME of the things Alithis has written.

SOME of it is stuff we are accustom to hearing from some Catholics and Mormons. Although, I think our friend has taken this to a radical extreme that no Catholic or Mormon would (but maybe I'm wrong there). Yes - to an extent anyway - Althis and Catholics are sharing a view, for as our Catholic teachers taught us, "Jesus opened the door to heaven but you gotta get yourself through it by what you do" Althis just makes what is necessary for us to achieve absolute perfection (Catholics tend to retain SOME sense of mercy - at least they pray for it so perhaps sense some need for it). But yes, that you - as a Catholic - like SOME of what Althis posts surprises no one, Catholicism too is about making Christ small and self large. I can understand why you and Althis are not completely at odds here.



- Josiah



.

 

[Alithis]

the topic is - are we saved if we remain in sin..

some (well most here actually ) are trying to say you can remain in sin ..
the scriptures tell us we must repent .. turn from turn away cease doing and follow God in obedience to him who saved us from sins power .

some here say christ has given us victory over sin-..but then they continue living as if he has not given victory over sin ,but failed to do so .they contradict their confession of faith .. they say "i have faith in christ" and then they behave as if they do not even believe a word has has spoken .. thier actions deny their words .

some here simply dont want to admit they still do things which they know to be sin ...
who's to say what? .. God knows and you know yourself .
After all, sin, for the born again disciple of the lord Jesus ,who is free from the past due to their burial into the death of christ jesus (if they have been buried with him by baptism into his death (thus sprinkling is excluded )- is knowing what is RIGHT to do .. and NOT doing it .. thus sin is nothing about thous shalt not .. and everything to do with because you are saved you "will " not .. your will has been transformed when you were made a new creature in christ ..and by his spirit are made alive again TO christ with the nature of Christ who cannot sin ... so we walk in HIS nature we also cannot sin..
but if we walk in our old nature we can sin..
and if we do that and then we realize our error and repent god forgives us and we go on and do not do that sin any more ..
and when the lord makes known to us some other sin we then obey him in that also and cease from it ... and this process never stops .
but those that say they believe but then refuse to Obey him and continue to do the sin they know to be sin.. perhaps they continue to lie about their taxes ,perhaps they continue to look at porn.. perhaps they continue to harbour malice and not forgive ... they know it is right to forgive they know it is right to tel the truth about their tax ,they know it is right to stop looking at porn.. but they refuse to do what is right .. they thus DISOBEY God ..they abide in sin and are not saved from it ..for they have chosen to remain subservient to their sin.

at the same time they say But god has set me free and so contradict their own confession of faith .. for they are hearers of the word but not doers .. they look in the mirror of the word of god and straight away they go and forget what it showed them and they know no change of mind nor heart . they are not being transformed into the image of christ.
they draw back from following the new master jesus and they return to serve the old master of sin .

they think they can have it both ways .. they have never repented of sin .. they sorry and fully intend to do it again .

I was such a man .. and then the lord spoke to my heart and warned me of the error i was in and of the deception of sin..
he worked in me godly repentance so that i do not return to that sin any more but seek to know AND DO his will ..
but that cannot even begin unto we repent and STOP doing the sin we know to be sin ..

judge your own hearts ,i'm not your judge ..

the lord jesus will say "depart from me your workers of iniquity ..and he will say this to all who refuses to STOP SINNING .to all those who do works of iniquity.
committing actions by their own choice and will ,which they KNOW to be sin .. and refusing to STOP .

 

[Josiah]

the topic is - are we saved if we remain in sin..

List for us just 10 names (full names please) of Christians who have no sin. Or can't you think of just 10? Therefore, are all Christians damned and going to hell?


I think you have been SO very, very confused by some preacher or teacher...... you have become SO confused by the entangling, mixing of justification and sanctification, gospel and law, Christ and self.... and it's lead you to this very tragic rejection of the Gospel, opposition to the Gospel, this belittling of Christ and engrandizing of self.



Pax CHRISTI



- Josiah

 

[MoreCoffee]

I can see why you - as a Catholic - can affirm SOME of the things Alithis has written.
SOME of it is stuff we are accustom to hearing from some Catholics and Mormons. Although, I think our friend has taken this to a radical extreme that no Catholic or Mormon would (but maybe I'm wrong there). Yes - to an extent anyway - Alithis and Catholics are sharing a view, for as our Catholic teachers taught us, "Jesus opened the door to heaven but you gotta get yourself through it by what you do" Alithis just makes what is necessary for us to achieve absolute perfection (Catholics tend to retain SOME sense of mercy - at least they pray for it so perhaps sense some need for it). But yes, that you - as a Catholic - like SOME of what Alithis posts surprises no one, Catholicism too is about making Christ small and self large. I can understand why you and Alithis are not completely at odds here.
- Josiah

I thank God for every affirmation of the truth present in what Alithis writes and for every mention of the truth in what you write. So you are right to affirm that I "can affirm SOME of the things Alithis has written". I can do the same thing with some of what you have written.

You say "SOME of it is stuff we are accustom to hearing from some Catholics and Mormons." I do not know very much about Mormon beliefs but whenever a Mormon affirms something that is true I would happily thank God for it. Truth is not made untrue because of who affirms it. I do not know what purpose you have in mentioning Mormons. They have formed no part of any of my posts except this one (or if you mentioned them before then maybe in a reply from me if I replied to any such mention) and what Mormons believe is not relevant to anything I am affirming in my posts.

Your statement about what "our Catholic teachers taught us" bears no resemblance to any teaching I have received from Catholic teachers. I do not know why your post includes such a statement but no doubt you have some reason for writing it and for using plurals like "our" and "us" when describing teaching that you may have received but I reiterate that I have not received - I have received no such teaching from Catholic teachers.

You also state "Catholicism too is about making Christ small and self large." Your statement is untrue. But that has been repeatedly demonstrated in numerous quotes from the CCC so there is no good reason to repeat the things that the Catholic Church affirms when it appears that failure to take them into account is going to happen no matter how often they are displayed for a testimony to what is true about Catholic teaching.

 

[Alithis]

....

Josiah[/QUOTE]

List for us just 10 names (full names please) of Christians who have no sin. Or can't you think of just 10? Therefore, are all Christians damned and going to hell?


I think you have been SO very, very confused by some preacher or teacher...... you have become SO confused by the entangling, mixing of justification and sanctification, gospel and law, Christ and self.... and it's lead you to this very tragic rejection of the Gospel, opposition to the Gospel, this belittling of Christ and engrandizing of self.



Pax CHRISTI



first please note..i dont cut single sentences out of your posts as that risks misrepresenting what you have said.
but to make your own opinionated accusation make any sense you have to cut and chop bits of my post and misrepresent what i have said.
that dishonest approach is in itself a warning of where you are coming from.

as to your post one thing stands out.
you seem bent on opposing Any concept of repentance of sin.
any concept of ceasing from practising a behaviour you know to be sin.
but be encouraged you won't die if you stop that particular sin..

 

[Lamb]

tut tut .. liar liar pants on fire .. read the thread more carefully.

Just answer the question and don't flame.