are we saved if we remain in sin -? no

[TurtleHare]

the question posed and answered is

are we saved if we remain in sin ? the answer being -NO .

the reason being that Sin is what leads to death and hell .. righteousness does not lead there ..sin results in death and hell .
we are saved from our sin .
to be saved from it is to be set free from its control over us .

repentance is NOT a one-off act bt it is a continued state of life .

if we feign repentance that falsehood is shown up by a continuous return to sin.. it means we have not turned fully and wholeheartedly to god that he might set us free from sin, but we have turned half-heartedly to him but desire to also enjoy our sin.. that is the proverbial luke warm state and almost indifferent state ..a horrid state of self-deception .

a person who has fully entered into repentance to god forsakes sin ..they do not go back into it to continually practice it . if they do that they simply show they are not yet saved from it, but are still enslaved by it .
that is not what the lord Jesus came to do for us -he came to set us free -fully free .

when we first repent we are being saved ... that is difficult for some to understand but we grasp it by faith .
when we mature we cast off sin and learn to walk in a maintained state of righteousness by obedience .
a child learns obedience but remains a child .but once hey have learned obedience ,they walk in it .
if they do not then they are a rebellious child .. and are thrown out .an unfruitful branch ..cut off .. a foolish virgin ..shut out . rebellion is Sin .
thus - knowing what is right to do and not doing it ..is the sin of rebellion .
obedience, has never been ,is never and will never be excluded from life in the lord Jesus .

our ongoing sanctification can never occur without obedience and if we are not ongoing ..we are drawing back.. and 'my soul shall have no delight in them that draw back .
if we are not ever moving forward and constantly being transformed into the image of christ then we are drawing back from being so .
and,that, is disobedience .
Therefore, I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.

Are they saved if they sin and then repent and then sin and repent and what if they sin again and repent? Is there mercy from God and forgiveness according to your belief system?

 

[psalms 91]

Are they saved if they sin and then repent and then sin and repent and what if they sin again and repent? Is there mercy from God and forgiveness according to your belief system?

The real question is are they trying are thye doing that sinl;ess? What is their heart? Are they truly repentant? We cant know that so thats why God judges

 

[Alithis]

Are they saved if they sin and then repent and then sin and repent and what if they sin again and repent? Is there mercy from God and forgiveness according to your belief system?

i quote the scripture and because you don't like what you hear you call it 'my belief system"?.. what's with that? ..it is not MINE ,it is what the scripture states .
i was once just the way you describe .. sinning & repenting, sinning repenting ,sinning repenting .. it is a false repentance . it is a self delusion .. the reason i returned to it is because i had NOT repented to God ,for when we have done so we then follow the lord jesus .. and i assure you he can not lead us into sin . he gives us HIS holy Spirit to empower us to overcome all sin. not some .and as we listen and obey we ever increasingly overcome - but if we are not increasing in overcoming and so becoming overcomers ..we are not walking in the Spirit of God .And if not walking in the spirit of god there is only the carnal nature of sin left .there is NO neutral ground .

if we say with our mouth we repent but we harbour in our heart the intent to sin (and we cannot sin that sin again unless we have intent to do so in our heart (,as james makes quite clear ) then our repentance is falsified and god is not fooled ..
but he is gracious and he does forgive . but it is when we realize the truth that we have been freed we do not HAVE to ever fall to that sin again... that true repentance occurs in our heart and it can only happen when we turn to the lord with ALL our heart and love him more then we loved our sin.

 

[Alithis]

Truth spoken out is Godly love.no matter how hard to hear .And Godly LOVE will not leave room for error,(wil not give place to the devil nor sin) especially if that error ,if continued in, can lead to death. however i know John speaks in Godly love by inspiration of the Holy Ghost

He says "See how very much our Father loves us, for he calls us his children, and that is what we are! But the people who belong to this world don’t recognize that we are God’s children because they don’t know him. Dear friends, we are already God’s children, but he has not yet shown us what we will be like when Christ appears. But we do know that we will be like him, for we will see him as he really is. And all who have this eager expectation will keep themselves pure, just as he is pure.
Everyone who sins is breaking God’s law, for all sin is contrary to the law of God. And you know that Jesus came to take away our sins, and there is no sin in him. Anyone who continues to live in him will not sin. But anyone who keeps on sinning does not know him or understand who he is.
Dear children, don’t let anyone deceive you about this: When people do what is right, it shows that they are righteous, even as Christ is righteous. But when people keep on sinning, it shows that they belong to the devil, who has been sinning since the beginning. But the Son of God came to destroy the works of the devil. Those who have been born into God’s family do not make a practice of sinning, because God’s life is in them. So they can’t keep on sinning, because they are children of God. So now we can tell who are children of God and who are children of the devil. Anyone who does not live righteously and does not love other believers does not belong to God.... "

none of those are my own words - and they are a continuation of everything John was saying .so if anyone wished to persist in resisting those words and implying they are not true ,they will have to take it up with the Spirit of the Lord ,by whose inspiration, John was speaking .

Peter ,speaking by the same spirit agrees saying
-"For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.---"


in a serious warning to the churches the Spirit of God spoke through John also saying
-Remember, then, what you received and heard. Keep it, and repent. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come against you"
since it is the believers he spoke to how is it that he says if they do not repent he will come ..not for them.. but AGAINST them ?

To the galatians by the same Holy Spirit paul writes :
-But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more?-reinforcing the point that once we are set free ,if we return to serving our former master of sin that it will become our master again .he says it more then one time also pointing out that "to whom you yield your body to as servants to obey ..his servant you are whom you obey .

and then Also gives this dire warning when by the Holy Spirit he writes -
"For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has spurned the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace?"

folks like to ignore that he is writing to the BELIEVING hebrews .. he is not writing to, or of, the lost .

so yet again the scripture is so very clear . no one who professes faith in the Lord Jesus can continue to sin . if we do, we show we are not yet free ,not yet born of God, not yet repentant . i do not apologize for pointing out plain simple bible . for when we both HEAR and ACT upon the good news that, upon repentance -as God commands of us ,there is undeserved forgiveness awaiting and a new life to abide in .. not come in and out of ,but ABIDE IN .. (for Jesus said" except we ABIDE in him we cannot bear fruit and if we do not bear fruit we will be cut off and cast into the fire which is never quenched .)


obedience to the gospel is more then simply knowing the gospel .

and we also know the lord disciplines and chastises those he loves


you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons, "MY SON, DO NOT REGARD LIGHTLY THE DISCIPLINE OF THE LORD, NOR FAINT WHEN YOU ARE REPROVED BY HIM;FOR THOSE WHOM THE LORD LOVES HE DISCIPLINES, AND HE SCOURGES EVERY SON WHOM HE RECEIVES." It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline?…

Deuteronomy 8:5
Know then in your heart that as a man disciplines his son, so the LORD your God disciplines you.

Psalm 94:12
Blessed is the one you discipline, LORD, the one you teach from your law;

Psalm 119:75
I know, LORD, that your laws are righteous, and that in faithfulness you have afflicted me.

Proverbs 3:11
My son, do not despise the LORD's discipline, and do not resent his rebuke,

Proverbs 3:12
because the LORD disciplines those he loves, as a father the son he delights in.


Revelation 3:19
Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent.

so we see from clear unambiguous scripture truth being presented IS an act of love no matter how unpalatable to the hearer .-because the truth sets us free from sin and death and leads us to ETERNAL LIFE .-Jesus is the truth .

 

[Josiah]

Truth spoken out is Godly love.no matter how hard to hear .And Godly LOVE will not leave room for error,(wil not give place to the devil nor sin) especially if that error ,if continued in, can lead to death. however i know John speaks in Godly love by inspiration of the Holy Ghost

He says "See how very much our Father loves us, for he calls us his children, and that is what we are! But the people who belong to this world don’t recognize that we are God’s children because they don’t know him. Dear friends, we are already God’s children, but he has not yet shown us what we will be like when Christ appears. But we do know that we will be like him, for we will see him as he really is. And all who have this eager expectation will keep themselves pure, just as he is pure.
Everyone who sins is breaking God’s law, for all sin is contrary to the law of God. And you know that Jesus came to take away our sins, and there is no sin in him. Anyone who continues to live in him will not sin. But anyone who keeps on sinning does not know him or understand who he is.
Dear children, don’t let anyone deceive you about this: When people do what is right, it shows that they are righteous, even as Christ is righteous. But when people keep on sinning, it shows that they belong to the devil, who has been sinning since the beginning. But the Son of God came to destroy the works of the devil. Those who have been born into God’s family do not make a practice of sinning, because God’s life is in them. So they can’t keep on sinning, because they are children of God. So now we can tell who are children of God and who are children of the devil. Anyone who does not live righteously and does not love other believers does not belong to God.... "

none of those are my own words - and they are a continuation of everything John was saying .so if anyone wished to persist in resisting those words and implying they are not true ,they will have to take it up with the Spirit of the Lord ,by whose inspiration, John was speaking .

Peter ,speaking by the same spirit agrees saying
-"For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.---"


in a serious warning to the churches the Spirit of God spoke through John also saying
-Remember, then, what you received and heard. Keep it, and repent. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come against you"
since it is the believers he spoke to how is it that he says if they do not repent he will come ..not for them.. but AGAINST them ?

To the galatians by the same Holy Spirit paul writes :
-But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more?-reinforcing the point that once we are set free ,if we return to serving our former master of sin that it will become our master again .he says it more then one time also pointing out that "to whom you yield your body to as servants to obey ..his servant you are whom you obey .

and then Also gives this dire warning when by the Holy Spirit he writes -
"For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has spurned the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace?"

folks like to ignore that he is writing to the BELIEVING hebrews .. he is not writing to, or of, the lost .

so yet again the scripture is so very clear . no one who professes faith in the Lord Jesus can continue to sin . if we do, we show we are not yet free ,not yet born of God, not yet repentant . i do not apologize for pointing out plain simple bible . for when we both HEAR and ACT upon the good news that, upon repentance -as God commands of us ,there is undeserved forgiveness awaiting and a new life to abide in .. not come in and out of ,but ABIDE IN .. (for Jesus said" except we ABIDE in him we cannot bear fruit and if we do not bear fruit we will be cut off and cast into the fire which is never quenched .)


obedience to the gospel is more then simply knowing the gospel .

and we also know the lord disciplines and chastises those he loves


you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons, "MY SON, DO NOT REGARD LIGHTLY THE DISCIPLINE OF THE LORD, NOR FAINT WHEN YOU ARE REPROVED BY HIM;FOR THOSE WHOM THE LORD LOVES HE DISCIPLINES, AND HE SCOURGES EVERY SON WHOM HE RECEIVES." It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline?…

Deuteronomy 8:5
Know then in your heart that as a man disciplines his son, so the LORD your God disciplines you.

Psalm 94:12
Blessed is the one you discipline, LORD, the one you teach from your law;

Psalm 119:75
I know, LORD, that your laws are righteous, and that in faithfulness you have afflicted me.

Proverbs 3:11
My son, do not despise the LORD's discipline, and do not resent his rebuke,

Proverbs 3:12
because the LORD disciplines those he loves, as a father the son he delights in.


Revelation 3:19
Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent.

?????????????


"OBEY the GOSPEL?" I don't even know what that means...... How does one "obey" the GOSPEL? Can you quote some Scriptures that state these 3 words together, "obey the Gospel?"


And again.... yet again..... since ALL Christians sin, doesn't THAT alone mean that either sin per se does NOT remove justification OR that thus all Christians are damned and not saved? Which is it?





.

 

[TurtleHare]

i quote the scripture and because you don't like what you hear you call it 'my belief system"?.. what's with that? ..it is not MINE ,it is what the scripture states .
i was once just the way you describe .. sinning & repenting, sinning repenting ,sinning repenting .. it is a false repentance . it is a self delusion .. the reason i returned to it is because i had NOT repented to God ,for when we have done so we then follow the lord jesus .. and i assure you he can not lead us into sin . he gives us HIS holy Spirit to empower us to overcome all sin. not some .and as we listen and obey we ever increasingly overcome - but if we are not increasing in overcoming and so becoming overcomers ..we are not walking in the Spirit of God .And if not walking in the spirit of god there is only the carnal nature of sin left .there is NO neutral ground .

if we say with our mouth we repent but we harbour in our heart the intent to sin (and we cannot sin that sin again unless we have intent to do so in our heart (,as james makes quite clear ) then our repentance is falsified and god is not fooled ..
but he is gracious and he does forgive . but it is when we realize the truth that we have been freed we do not HAVE to ever fall to that sin again... that true repentance occurs in our heart and it can only happen when we turn to the lord with ALL our heart and love him more then we loved our sin.

Jesus told his disciples to forgive 70 times 7 and yet he doesn't forgive that many times or is that your interpretation that Jesus doesn't forgive really as much as we think if we sin repent and sin and repent and sin and repent. Do you have some magical number of times that Jesus will stop forgiving because the gospel will trump your law you know but you don't want to know that.

 

[visionary]

How many times does Yeshua have to forgive before you quit sinning? Until the searing happens, or until the transformation.

 

[psalms 91]

Yup we all sin

 

[Alithis]

?????????????


"OBEY the GOSPEL?" I don't even know what that means...... How does one "obey" the GOSPEL? Can you quote some Scriptures that state these 3 words together, "obey the Gospel?"


And again.... yet again..... since ALL Christians sin, doesn't THAT alone mean that either sin per se does NOT remove justification OR that thus all Christians are damned and not saved? Which is it?





.

Mm..this is embarrasing, but you did ask..

when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, 8dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,"

And again - " For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?"-
More then 3 words..but you must read the scriptures..truth lays therein.

What sin is it your referring to that you as a christian ..keep sinning?what sin has the lord jesus failed to set you free from that you feel you must keep doing josiah ?

 

[Alithis]

How many times does Yeshua have to forgive before you quit sinning? Until the searing happens, or until the transformation.

I have a feeling this post went wooosh over the head of some ...
But yes and yes .
It is the same as when i say those who have truly tasted the grace of God do not go back into what he so graciously saved them out of.

 

[Alithis]

Jesus told his disciples to forgive 70 times 7 and yet he doesn't forgive that many times or is that your interpretation that Jesus doesn't forgive really as much as we think if we sin repent and sin and repent and sin and repent. Do you have some magical number of times that Jesus will stop forgiving because the gospel will trump your law you know but you don't want to know that.

So your planning to keep disobeying the holy spirit and sinning agaist the lord jesus because he Has to forgive you...
Where is repentance in not turning away from your sin ..i thought you love the lord Jesus.. ? That doesnt sound like love to me. It sounds like a spouse that says to the groom.. Sorry i was unfaithful to you last night,i slept with another but you have to forgive me. And then does it again the next night. ..because he has to forgive you..and does it again and again... That does not sound like one who loves to me. Jesus said if you love you will obey him.abide in him,be faithful to him. Howj is repetedly betraying him by sinning doing any of the things that prove we love him ?
You need to have a serious renewing of your mind to bring your thinking into agreement with the spirit of God.

 

[Josiah]

Mm..this is embarrasing, but you did ask..

Maybe it would help if ... You would llst the names and addresses of a few Christians (oh, no need for more than 10) who never sin...... NO sinful nature (ever, not from conception to death), NO sinful thoughts or words or deeds, NOTHING left undone what should be done, ALWAYS perfect in righteousness and morality, ALWAYS holy exactly as God in Heaven is holy, ALWAYS loving to all 7.3 billion people EXACTLY AS and to the SAME EXTENT AS Jesus loved on the Cross, making diciples of all 7.3 billion people. Just list the full names and addresses of just 10 or so, maybe. Then we might just have some idea of these sinless Christians you keep talking about. OR is it that Christians aren't saved and are hellbound because they do sin (all this Christianity stuff thus being a joke)?


But frankly, I think we just have more amazing, tragic confusion of Law and Gospel, sanctification and justification, yourself and God.... all jumbled up, confused, entangled (in the same way some Catholics and Mormons do)..... all to make yourself as big as possible and Christ as small and irrelevant and laughable as possible.... all so it comes down to YOU, good old, wonderful, glorious, righteous, holy, sinless (and therefore obedient) YOU. Your persistent desire to shift everything from Christ to you..... His works to yours..... your persistent confusion, entangling, blending, switching of sanctification with justification and your subjecting the Gospel to the Law... well.... it's very disturbing.





.

 

[psalms 91]

Christians who never
sin = 0

Christians who say they never sin that lie = all

 

[Josiah]

Christians who never
sin = 0

Christians who say they never sin that lie = all

I agree.

Thus, this point that justification is cancelled and Jesus made a joke if we sin - well, it's wrong. OF COURSE, the Law doesn't terminate when faith is given to us (and thus we are justified)..... we are to be PERFECT just as and to the same extent that God is PERFECT..... sure, we are to be HOLY exactly as and to the same extent that God is holy.... sure we are to LOVE all people always exactly as and to the same extent that Jesus loved on the Cross.... sure, we are to love the Lord our God with ALL (100%) of our mind, soul and body.... sure, we are to make disciples of all 7.3 billion people..... sure, that's what the Law says! BUT, no one does that. As the Bible says, NO ONE is righteousness, no not even one! As the Bible says, "ALL fall short." Thus, this confusion of Law and Gospel, of sanctification and justification.... this entangling of the two.... this subjection of the Gospel to the Law.... this subjection of Christ to self that we see from this member over and over and over, in thread after thread.... it's not only wrong, it's dangerous, it's opposition to the Gospel, it's not only wrong, its dangerous. We're use to this from Catholics and Mormons, it's sad to see it increasingly from modern American "Evangelicals."





.

 

[Alithis]

?????????????


"OBEY the GOSPEL?" I don't even know what that means...... How does one "obey" the GOSPEL? Can you quote some Scriptures that state these 3 words together, "obey the Gospel?"


And again.... yet again..... since ALL Christians sin, doesn't THAT alone mean that either sin per se does NOT remove justification OR that thus all Christians are damned and not saved? Which is it?





.

Mm..this is embarrasing, but you did ask..

when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, 8dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,"

And again - " For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?"-
More then 3 words..but you must read the scriptures..truth lays therein.

What sin is it your referring to that you as a christian ..keep sinning?what sin has the lord jesus failed to set you free from that you feel you must keep doing josiah ?

Maybe it would help if ... You would llst the names and addresses of a few Christians (oh, no need for more than 10) who never sin...... NO sinful nature (ever, not from conception to death), NO sinful thoughts or words or deeds, NOTHING left undone what should be done, ALWAYS perfect in righteousness and morality, ALWAYS holy exactly as God in Heaven is holy, ALWAYS loving to all 7.3 billion people EXACTLY AS and to the SAME EXTENT AS Jesus loved on the Cross, making diciples of all 7.3 billion people. Just list the full names and addresses of just 10 or so, maybe. Then we might just have some idea of these sinless Christians you keep talking about. OR is it that Christians aren't saved and are hellbound because they do sin (all this Christianity stuff thus being a joke)?


But frankly, I think we just have more amazing, tragic confusion of Law and Gospel, sanctification and justification, yourself and God.... all jumbled up, confused, entangled (in the same way some Catholics and Mormons do)..... all to make yourself as big as possible and Christ as small and irrelevant and laughable as possible.... all so it comes down to YOU, good old, wonderful, glorious, righteous, holy, sinless (and therefore obedient) YOU. Your persistent desire to shift everything from Christ to you..... His works to yours..... your persistent confusion, entangling, blending, switching of sanctification with justification and your subjecting the Gospel to the Law... well.... it's very disturbing.





.

list names of those who do not sin from conception to death ?? cant ..al have sinned -past tense .. they did not have mush hope there ,they were born in a sinful nature . But those BORN AGAIN.. they have the nature of christ .. does the nature of christ sin? does christ sin ? ..that's not even a question to be asked .he cannot .
and since we are set free from sin ..do we ever HAVE to sin again after that ? - nope ! why would we . so if you are doing so .. CUT IT OUT ..repent of it and god will forgive you and then you can go on and not do so any more .because you are free from it .
if you refuse to do that .. your simply in a continuous state of rebellion and need saving for the sin of rebellion.
So since we have established from direct scripture that the Gospel(good news0 is a packaged message containing instructions that are to be obeyed ... ie -obey the Gospel ( good news) -
let us Do so with willing hearts .let us ACT in faith and receive the salvation of God ,displaying by our obedience to the gospel that our faith is real and not feigned lip service.
i know you dont like it but its simply how it is . god has made a way for us to be free AND to live in that freedom . he did not fail on the cross ..so if you still do the same sin over and over it is not because god failed to set you free ..it is because you desire to obey the sin more then you desire to love the lord Jesus . -end

So.. What sin is it your referring to that you, as a christian ,..keep sinning? what sin has the lord jesus failed to set you free from that you feel you must keep doing josiah ?-answer= there is NONE .you simply do what you choose to do, what you WILL to do ...but if you believe the scriptures then you know that if we have truly repented .. and been baptised all our past life is BURIED by baptism into the death of christ .. and we are raised again as a new creation in christ unto righteousness.
that is of course unless you have only been sprinkled into a church rather then baptised into christ JEsus .. -in which case you have not yet obeyed the gospel and that would explain why you cant yet understand what is being said .

 

[visionary]

Nope wrong... you are not free from the law... you are free from the law of "sin and death." You are NOT free from the Torah.

Torah is wisdom, LIFE, TRUTH they way in which we should go. It is a lamp unto our feet(LIGHT) Honor, length of days....

Paul says that it is HOLY and Good.... So please explain to me how it is that a believer does not want that which is HOLY and Good? That which produces WISDOM and discretion. Bestows HONOR and is TRUTH. That which is a lamp to our feet directing us in the way we should go??????

 

[Josiah]

list names of those who do not sin from conception to death ?? cant ..al have sinned -past tense ..

I see. So, it's easy. Just give the full name and address of all the people to whom sins are PAST TENSE, at some microsecond on some date (could you give that for each?), they on the list became absolutely PERFECT even as God in heaven is perfect, absolutely HOLY just as God in heaven is holy, VOID of any sinful nature, VOID of any sin of thought, word or deed, VOID of any right left undone, they (as of that date) perfectly LOVE all 7.3 billion people even as and to the same extent that Jesus loved on the Cross, who are making disciples of all 7.3 billion people - who thus need no Christ, no mercy, no forgiveness no nothing because they are PERFECT. List those a dozen or so of those living people for us; I'd like to research them. I want to know why Scripture is wrong when it says that NO ONE is righteous, NO, NOT EVEN ONE. Obviously, you think the Bible is wrong and I'd like you to supply the names of folks that prove Sripture so wrong.

So.. What sin is it your referring to that you, as a christian ,..keep sinning?

I don't think I need to (nor have time to) post for you all my sins.... all the ways in which I'm not PERFECT as God is, not HOLY as God is, not as LOVING as Christ is, etc. It is enough that I affirm what the Bible says, that NO ONE is righteous, no not even one. It is enough that I admit that I'm a sinner and that I need Christ, I need love, I need mercy (thus, I'm a Christian).

if we have truly repented

But when you post the list of perfect people, it will be the list of those who need not repent.... they have nothing to repent of, nothing to look to Christ for.




But what is evident is your COMPLETE confusion of Law and Gospel, of sanctification and justification, of yourself and Christ.... entangled, mixed-up, confused..... all to make YOU as big as possible, to make CHRIST as small and insignifcant and irrelevant as possible, to oppose the Gospel. We expect that a bit from Catholics and Mormons (though not as radical as you), but it's so sad to see it from those who CALL themselves "Protestant" but who attack the very foundation, the very core of Protestantism (and Christianity): CHRIST, as SAVIOR. Not Christ as helper or possibility maker with SELF so wonderful, so good, so glorious, that self don't need no mercy, no salvation cuz self has self. Sure, if your point is true (and the Bible wrong) that you are SINLESS then you need no Christ, no Cross, no mercy, no forgiveness, no nothing cuz you got you: you may look in the mirror rather than to the Cross because when you look in the mirror you see perfection, holiness, sinlessness, wonderfulness to perfection.


When you give the full names and addresses of these living PERFECT people, you'll support your point that the Bible errs when it says that NO ONE is righteous, no not even one and that Christians don't sin anymore.






.

 

[TurtleHare]

So your planning to keep disobeying the holy spirit and sinning agaist the lord jesus because he Has to forgive you...
Where is repentance in not turning away from your sin ..i thought you love the lord Jesus.. ? That doesnt sound like love to me. It sounds like a spouse that says to the groom.. Sorry i was unfaithful to you last night,i slept with another but you have to forgive me. And then does it again the next night. ..because he has to forgive you..and does it again and again... That does not sound like one who loves to me. Jesus said if you love you will obey him.abide in him,be faithful to him. Howj is repetedly betraying him by sinning doing any of the things that prove we love him ?
You need to have a serious renewing of your mind to bring your thinking into agreement with the spirit of God.

Why do you persist in turning the Gospel in the Law?

When someone asks about forgiveness why do you turn it around into a person's obedience and did Jesus do that or did He forgive those in need of forgiveness. I think you need to return to the study of what Forgiveness is and how generous our lord truly is. I'm saved by the grace of God who has had mercy on me and forgives me all my sins. Are you?

 

[visionary]

Why do you persist in turning the Gospel in the Law?

When someone asks about forgiveness why do you turn it around into a person's obedience and did Jesus do that or did He forgive those in need of forgiveness. I think you need to return to the study of what Forgiveness is and how generous our lord truly is. I'm saved by the grace of God who has had mercy on me and forgives me all my sins. Are you?

When was forgiveness separated from obedience. Evidence of accepting the forgiveness is shown in the obedience.

 

[Lamb]

Our obedience is to remain in faith and not reject the forgiveness that gives us eternal life (by faith). If we look to how much we obey then we fail. If we look to how much Jesus obeyed then we know we are saved.