Dead know not anything...

MoreCoffee

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You will hear that conversation one day. .. as it really plays out before the world... then everyone will know...

I've already "heard" it. I've even heard it. I can hear it now as I play it back on my audio bible.
Now there was a certain rich man, and he was clothed in purple and fine linen, faring sumptuously every day: and a certain beggar named Lazarus was laid at his gate, full of sores, and desiring to be fed with the crumbs that fell from the rich man’s table; yea, even the dogs come and licked his sores.And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and that he was carried away by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: and the rich man also died, and was buried.And in Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am in anguish in this flame.But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and Lazarus in like manner evil things: but now here he is comforted and thou art in anguish.And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, that they that would pass from hence to you may not be able, and that none may cross over from thence to us.And he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house; for I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.But Abraham saith, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one go to them from the dead, they will repent.And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, if one rise from the dead.​
 

psalms 91

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Ah the layers of scripture. There is usually no one meaning to scripture as there ais layers and layers of meaning
 

MoreCoffee

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Ah the layers of scripture. There is usually no one meaning to scripture as there are layers and layers of meaning

The story of the rich man and Lazarus has one obvious meaning but one can add allegorical and moral and practical interpretations on top of the obvious meaning. But the obvious meaning is the one that has to govern everything.
 

psalms 91

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OK we all have different understanding
 

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OK we all have different understanding

Do you yourself believe and teach that men when they die in this world go into an unconscious state like sleep and their soul/spirit remains quiescent and unaware? If you do believe and teach this then what of the Lord Jesus Christ was he sleeping in the tomb and unaware while in it was his soul/spirit also unaware?
 

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The waiting is for the living... the departed know nothing.

Yet, in Revelation, we read of martyrs crying out, "How long?"

Revelation 6:9-10
When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of all who had been martyred for the word of God and for being faithful in their testimony. 10 They shouted to the Lord and said, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you judge the people who belong to this world and avenge our blood for what they have done to us?”
 

MoreCoffee

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Yet, in Revelation, we read of martyrs crying out, "How long?"

Revelation 6:9-10
When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of all who had been martyred for the word of God and for being faithful in their testimony. 10 They shouted to the Lord and said, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you judge the people who belong to this world and avenge our blood for what they have done to us?”

They cried out for justice, they did not snore in their "sleep" awaiting their bodily resurrection because they were not sleeping, no indeed they were awake and conscious and knew of the passage of time and events on Earth.
 

psalms 91

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Do you yourself believe and teach that men when they die in this world go into an unconscious state like sleep and their soul/spirit remains quiescent and unaware? If you do believe and teach this then what of the Lord Jesus Christ was he sleeping in the tomb and unaware while in it was his soul/spirit also unaware?
Of course not
 

visionary

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Yet, in Revelation, we read of martyrs crying out, "How long?"

Revelation 6:9-10
When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of all who had been martyred for the word of God and for being faithful in their testimony. 10 They shouted to the Lord and said, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you judge the people who belong to this world and avenge our blood for what they have done to us?”
Genesis 4:10 The LORD said, "What have you done? Listen! Your brother's blood cries out to me from the ground.
 

MoreCoffee

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Genesis 4:10 The LORD said, "What have you done? Listen! Your brother's blood cries out to me from the ground.

Do you take that verse to imply that Able was sleeping and his blood talked? Do you think it refutes the teaching of Christ in the story of the rich man and Lazarus? If not then why did you quote it and add not explanation of why you chose to quote it?
 

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Do you take that verse to imply that Able was sleeping and his blood talked? Do you think it refutes the teaching of Christ in the story of the rich man and Lazarus? If not then why did you quote it and add not explanation of why you chose to quote it?

Hebrew mindset understanding. To the Lord, blood talks to Him...

There is no refuting the story of the rich man and Lazarus,... it will happen.. it will be at the Camp of God wall.. and then it will make perfect sense.
 

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Hebrew mindset understanding. To the Lord, blood talks to Him...

Is it an imaginary voice or does the "blood" really speak as the holy scripture says it does?
 

visionary

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Is it an imaginary voice or does the "blood" really speak as the holy scripture says it does?

I believe God used those terms to convey an understanding about His knowing.
 

MoreCoffee

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I believe God used those terms to convey an understanding about His knowing.

Does your reply mean that the blood didn't speak?
 

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Does the text say not anything?
In Dutch it says they know nothing.
Not anything is better. They don't know what's going on on earth.
Btw Abraham etc. were not the dead. Jesus said: He's a God of the living, not the dead. Samuel knew something about Saul and what was going on.
 

psalms 91

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Yes, so much to consider
 

MoreCoffee

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Does the text say not anything?
In Dutch it says they know nothing.
Not anything is better. They don't know what's going on on earth.
Btw Abraham etc. were not the dead. Jesus said: He's a God of the living, not the dead. Samuel knew something about Saul and what was going on.

Perhaps it is important for readers to notice that it says "the dead" rather than "the faithful" or "the saints". But I am persuaded that the author of Ecclesiastes had a very gloomy outlook and often wrote words from the perspective of gloomy worldliness rather than words from God as revelation about God and God's purposes.
 

psalms 91

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Solomon was the author of Eccleeastes and in the end he worshiped false gods and turned from God
 

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Solomon was the author of Eccleeastes and in the end he worshiped false gods and turned from God

Solomon did turn from God to false gods.
 
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