are we saved if we remain in sin -? no

[Alithis]

IN Christ Jesus they who believe and repent and are baptized and receive the holy Spirit
are saved from sin..
We are not saved from hell first,
nor are we saved from death first ,
But we are saved from that which results in both .
We are saved from the cause of the other occurring

We are saved from sin and from it power and dominion over us
this means what it says . it has no dominion over us
we do not have to listen to it ,obey it ,serve it live in it ,or do it .

so many keep saying "but Christians sin ".. but the truth is those that continue to sin ( and we are speaking of direct unambiguous sin which the individual KNOWS is sin that they then chose to do any way.) are only "claiming to be Christian ..but their action contradicts their claim and displays the truth that they are not yet saved . for as person who has tasted the fullness of the grace of God has no desire to ever go back into the horror of what they were saved from .

the lord Jesus has set me free from sin -i knew what sin was and i had continued in doing it
the lord showed me very plainly in his word that if i continues to do so i would perish in it -never mind some sinners prayer, prayed once long ago.
repentance is a turning away -a sinners prayer without repentance is nothing more then lying to God and deceiving self .
so such a one who continue to practice that which they out-rightly KNOW to be sin ..simply shows by their action they are not yet saved from it .but are still a prisoner to it .

When they get saved they will cease from it because it will no longer have Dominion over them and their love for the lord Jesus will result in their obedience to him.for he said ..they who love me will do what i instruct them .. and again, my sheep hear my voice and i know them and they follow ME .

it is time to cast off unbelief - this is what the LORD Jesus came to accomplish in us he came to SET US FREE from sin and its destruction and the judgment that will come upon all who continue in it .
start believing that God is fully able to do in you what he has said he came to do when he displayed his love to us in The lord Jesus Christ when he went to the cross .
he did not do all that so that you can languish as a miserable slave to sin .

Whether you believe it or not- it is SO.- I both believe and KNOW his word is true and he CAN and DOES fully set us free from sin so that we do not are no longer compelled by it.it is no longer master over us he(the lord JESUS) has given us the power to OVER COME it .

For it is to the over comers that he gives the crown of life .. not to the ones who succumb ! -When the lord Jesus has gifted us so great a power to overcome all sin in him.. we would be fools not to exercise that power and use it for which it is given. To over come the world as HE over came the world .

If we do not forgive ,neither will our heavenly Father forgive us -This one verse alone displays how sin, not dealt with, not repented of ,not over come..brings certain death.. .do not be deceived . and in like manner the forgiveness of god to the obedient repentant heart credits righteousness to us and brings certain LIFE

ALL of the good news of the salvation of God in Christ JESUS is useless to us unless we are obedient to it .. to be saved from a certain peril caused by sin. and then to turn back and serve the very sin we were set free from, is to both spit in the face of the one who saved us and place ourselves back in ever more peril .

For how terrible it will be for those who trample under foot the grace of God .
We are saved to be holy unto God ,when we return to the practice of sin we deem holiness as a filthy thing -there is nothing more perverse then the self justifying acceptance of sin you know to be sin in your life .

now is the day of salvation ,NOW if you will hear his voice and not harden your hearts as in the rebellion .

The lord Jesus is the word spoken forth from the heart of God
and he became flesh ..one of us .
he had no sin and did no wrong but he was taken and flogged and bruised for OUR guilt executed violently for OUR sin .
he shed his blood on the cross and lay down his life as punishment for our sin to saying full the debt of death we owed God for OUR SIN against him
he whom we owed came and paid the debt WE owed HIM .!
he lay in the ground for three days and three nights and then he ROSE AGAIN from the dead to live in eternal victory over sin and death and is able now to fully give that sanme victory and life to all who believe and obey .

HOW To have all he has done CREDITED to our account with him? we must do as he has instructed us to do

BELIEVE on the lord Jesus
REPENT of our sin and turn to God
Be Baptized for the remission of our sin (when a debt is paid in full you get a remission slip stating "paid in FULL " ) to obtain this remission slip we must be baptized as GOD instructs us to be -HE paid the debt thus he has the divine right to state how it can be credited to our account - to ignore his instruction is to remain in rebellion to him.
and you WILL receive the Holy Spirit --who is the eternal spirit of life (everlasting life ) .

now is the day of salvation ,NOW if you will hear his voice and not harden your hearts as in the rebellion .

 

[Josiah]

Just because sin no longer has MASTERY or DOMINION over us does not make the Bible false when it says that NO ONE is righteous, no not even one..... that ALL sin and fall short.....

The fixation of looking in the mirror as the basis of our relationship with God will only kill it.... we need to be looking to the Cross, the Christ, the Blood, the Lamb; to mercy and grace. And yes, doing THAT empowers and changes us..... not the guilt or ego of looking in the mirror.


Lord, have MERCY
Christ, have MERCY
Lord, have MERCY




.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Just because sin no longer has MASTERY or DOMINION over us does not make the Bible false when it says that NO ONE is righteous, no not even one..... that ALL sin and fall short.....

At least one is righteous, right? Jesus is righteous is he not? Enoch pleased the Lord and was taken to be with the Lord. Job is called perfect and upright.

The fixation of looking in the mirror as the basis of our relationship with God will only kill it.... we need to be looking to the Cross, the Christ, the Blood, the Lamb; to mercy and grace. And yes, doing THAT empowers and changes us..... not the guilt or ego of looking in the mirror.
Lord, have MERCY
Christ, have MERCY
Lord, have MERCY

 

[Lamb]

Jesus is the only sinless man and we are covered in His righteousness.

We are not to be the judge of who is saved and who isn't and Jesus told the disciples not to try to separate them. If you are going around saying that because you see this guy caught up in sin that he's already damned then you're playing God and proclaiming to see whether or not the man still has faith. That's God's job, not yours. You have no idea how God is working in that man's life to turn him around so really, you're just being one of those self-righteous Christians who think they're better than others if you go around doing that. You should really stop if that's what you're doing. Let God do His job.

God uses the Law to bring people to their knees in contrition. He uses the Gospel (not the law driven gospel that has been spouted here on this site, but the sweet full flavor Gospel of only what GOD has done for forgiveness) to bring people to faith or sustain their faith. The Law won't give us faith. Or keep us there. It will show us our wrong but only by faith can we actually turn to God. The Holy Spirit is at work in us and we can't see that. We might see a man doing horrible things and wonder but we can't ever know for certain. It's not for us to know. We can caution that man and use Law and Gospel, but to declare him already damned to hell, that's not our job. We can tell him he's on the path though.

 

[psalms 91]

Great post Lamm

 

[MoreCoffee]

At least one is righteous, right? Jesus is righteous is he not? Enoch pleased the Lord and was taken to be with the Lord. Job is called perfect and upright.

Jesus is the only sinless man and we are covered in His righteousness.

We are not to be the judge of who is saved and who isn't and Jesus told the disciples not to try to separate them. If you are going around saying that because you see this guy caught up in sin that he's already damned then you're playing God and proclaiming to see whether or not the man still has faith. That's God's job, not yours. You have no idea how God is working in that man's life to turn him around so really, you're just being one of those self-righteous Christians who think they're better than others if you go around doing that. You should really stop if that's what you're doing. Let God do His job.

God uses the Law to bring people to their knees in contrition. He uses the Gospel (not the law driven gospel that has been spouted here on this site, but the sweet full flavor Gospel of only what GOD has done for forgiveness) to bring people to faith or sustain their faith. The Law won't give us faith. Or keep us there. It will show us our wrong but only by faith can we actually turn to God. The Holy Spirit is at work in us and we can't see that. We might see a man doing horrible things and wonder but we can't ever know for certain. It's not for us to know. We can caution that man and use Law and Gospel, but to declare him already damned to hell, that's not our job. We can tell him he's on the path though.

It's not right to quote from a psalm as if what it says is absolute doctrine. Josiah's post alluded to a psalm that saint Paul quotes. It is wrong to disregard what the context of saint Paul's remarks are and what the psalm is about. The fact remains that the holy scriptures give examples of men who were righteous. Jehovah calls Job perfect (righteous) and Jehovah was pleased with Enoch and so he took him. It is an error of exegesis to tale "all have sinned" as an absolute statement of truth admitting of no exceptions. Certainly the Lord Jesus Christ is an exception. Job and Enoch may also be exceptions as far as sinning goes. Here is what the scriptures say about these two men.

Of Job is it said:

• (Job 1:1 ASV) There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and turned away from evil.
• (Job 1:8 ASV) And Jehovah said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job? for there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and turneth away from evil.

Of Enoch it is said:

• Genesis 5:18-24 ASV And Jared lived a hundred sixty and two years, and begat Enoch: (19) and Jared lived after he begat Enoch eight hundred years, and begat sons and daughters: (20) and all the days of Jared were nine hundred sixty and two years: and he died. (21) And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah: (22) and Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters: (23) and all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: (24) and Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
• Hebrews 11:5-6 ASV By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and he was not found, because God translated him: for he hath had witness borne to him that before his translation he had been well-pleasing unto God: (6) and without faith it is impossible to be well-pleasing unto him; for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that seek after him.

 

[psalms 91]

It's not right to quote from a psalm as if what it says is absolute doctrine. Josiah's post alluded to a psalm that saint Paul quotes. It is wrong to disregard what the context of saint Paul's remarks are and what the psalm is about. The fact remains that the holy scriptures give examples of men who were righteous. Jehovah calls Job perfect (righteous) and Jehovah was pleased with Enoch and so he took him. It is an error of exegesis to tale "all have sinned" as an absolute statement of truth admitting of no exceptions. Certainly the Lord Jesus Christ is an exception. Job and Enoch may also be exceptions as far as sinning goes. Here is what the scriptures say about these two men.

Of Job is it said:

• (Job 1:1 ASV) There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and turned away from evil.
• (Job 1:8 ASV) And Jehovah said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job? for there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and turneth away from evil.

Of Enoch it is said:

• Genesis 5:18-24 ASV And Jared lived a hundred sixty and two years, and begat Enoch: (19) and Jared lived after he begat Enoch eight hundred years, and begat sons and daughters: (20) and all the days of Jared were nine hundred sixty and two years: and he died. (21) And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah: (22) and Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters: (23) and all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: (24) and Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
• Hebrews 11:5-6 ASV By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and he was not found, because God translated him: for he hath had witness borne to him that before his translation he had been well-pleasing unto God: (6) and without faith it is impossible to be well-pleasing unto him; for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that seek after him.

It is not wrong to say all havve sinned, the Word says that. Blameless is not the same as sinless.

 

[Josiah]

At least one is righteous, right? Jesus is righteous is he not?

Yes, of course, JESUS is righteous and alone may stand before the Father claiming obedience rather than pleading for MERCY for Christs' sake.




.

 

[MoreCoffee]

It is not wrong to say all have sinned, the Word says that. Blameless is not the same as sinless.

Blameless is not sinful is it?

 

[Alithis]

Jesus is the only sinless man and we are covered in His righteousness.

We are not to be the judge of who is saved and who isn't and Jesus told the disciples not to try to separate them. If you are going around saying that because you see this guy caught up in sin that he's already damned then you're playing God and proclaiming to see whether or not the man still has faith. That's God's job, not yours. You have no idea how God is working in that man's life to turn him around so really, you're just being one of those self-righteous Christians who think they're better than others if you go around doing that. You should really stop if that's what you're doing. Let God do His job.

God uses the Law to bring people to their knees in contrition. He uses the Gospel (not the law driven gospel that has been spouted here on this site, but the sweet full flavor Gospel of only what GOD has done for forgiveness) to bring people to faith or sustain their faith. The Law won't give us faith. Or keep us there. It will show us our wrong but only by faith can we actually turn to God. The Holy Spirit is at work in us and we can't see that. We might see a man doing horrible things and wonder but we can't ever know for certain. It's not for us to know. We can caution that man and use Law and Gospel, but to declare him already damned to hell, that's not our job. We can tell him he's on the path though.

who is judging ? ..judge yourselves that's what we are supposed to do . it is odd how so often the topic is first given an accusation of judgement . But then it raises the question ,what is it people fear bringing before the throne of God thats caseus them toi cry "dont judge me" ?
if we are in christ Jesus are we not saved from just that judgement .. IF we ARE in him that is .

He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. does the righteousness of God continue in sin?

 

[Alithis]

Just because sin no longer has MASTERY or DOMINION over us does not make the Bible false when it says that NO ONE is righteous, no not even one..... that ALL sin and fall short.....

The fixation of looking in the mirror as the basis of our relationship with God will only kill it.... we need to be looking to the Cross, the Christ, the Blood, the Lamb; to mercy and grace. And yes, doing THAT empowers and changes us..... not the guilt or ego of looking in the mirror.


Lord, have MERCY
Christ, have MERCY
Lord, have MERCY




.

all sin and fall short of the glory of God .. and that is why we cannot save ourselves - but NOW in christ we are saved if we are obedient to the message of good news he has declared to us ..
if we are born again. then that one who fell short has died in christ when he was buried with him into hs death and raised again into Christs resurrection . A NEW CREATURE in christ ,made alive again by the holy Spirit (if we have rceived the promised holy Spirit ) to now walk in rightousness .. not made alive again to walk in sin .

if a person says otherwise then please do point out ,as we walk in obedience to the holy Spirit .which sin is it he is instructing you to continue doing ? which sin is it he has excused as "ok" in utter contradiction of his own righteousness ? of course there is None.

so what sin is it you desire to be excused so that you may continue in it ?

 

[Alithis]

Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance; 15 but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, 16 because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.

And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear; knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

 

[psalms 91]

Blameless is not sinful is it?

Are you trying to say that anyone other than Christ was without sin? If so I have a word for you from the bible that sauys if any man say he is without sin then he is a liar

 

[MoreCoffee]

Are you trying to say that anyone other than Christ was without sin? If so I have a word for you from the bible that sauys if any man say he is without sin then he is a liar

I am saying that the holy scriptures call Job blameless (perfect) and upright. I am saying that those words come from Jehovah's conversation. God himself says it. Who will oppose his words?

 

[Alithis]

Are you trying to say that anyone other than Christ was without sin? If so I have a word for you from the bible that stays if any man says he is without sin then he is a liar

its a fine line but can be misinterpreted either way if there is doctrinal preference .

he that says he has no sin is a liar ... that's one side of the line
blessed is the man unto who the lord does not impute sin (any sin) -because he is forgiven ..is the other side of the line

does a person who stands washed in the blood of the lamb have sin.. ? no, that would be to say christ failed on the cross .... can that person then go and commit a sin ..yes ,if they walk accroding to the old nature instead of walking in the perfect Holy Spirit to obey him. for if we walk in the spirit we will not fulfill the lust of the flesh -and thereby , sin. (will not- means ,will not )
but in order to arrive at that washed clean state ..they must first admit they have sin. and to not confess they are a sinner is to lie .but it is the very state we must come to that w may be saved from sin.. the state of repentance ..

but once that has occurred then God forgives and Christs blood washes us clean from ALL unrighteousness ,not some .
and it is now ,in that clean state, that we are deemed to be the righteousness of God IN christ Jesus ..for we -if we have been buried into his death by baptism ..are then raised again into his resurection as a new creature in chrsit -the old died the new is reborn out of the waters of baptism . so while we WERE all sinners and none rightous -before we were reborn , we are now not an unrightous sinner but one justified by faith in christ .. and As one justified by faith we must now walk worthy of that state that god has so graciously bought us to by the sacrifice of his own Son . and not return to serving sin .
now that we have been saved to live righteously should we continue in sin from which we were saved and expect to arrive in the kingdom of God ..? nope. sin brings death and God is not mocked what so ever a man sow that wil he also reap.

as ones set free (-if we have indeed be set free and are not just fooling ourselves -) we are set free and empowered to OVERCOME the world as christ overcame the world .
thus no man can sin except he so desires to do so and ignores the holy Spirit and chooses to commit the action he knows to be sin.. this is called wilful sin -and as it is written, "For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment ....................."

If we say "oh but I can't stop doing that sin no matter how had i try".. then we have not yet been saved from it .. we can't say I have been set free while we remain a prisoner .so our actions displays that we do not yet know God .
we cant say we are under grace because a person who has tasted the grace of God so loves the lord so much that he does not desire to ever oppose and rebel against the one he loves ..just as the lord Jesus said ,,if you love me you will keep my teachings (it equates to ..you will do as i say and as i showed you )

we judge our own hearts ..
we are justified by faith and washed clean from all sin ,set free from its power and dominion .. do we then LET it have dominion over us ?
we are set free we say .. do we then enslave ourselves to that which we claim to be set free from ?

if all we claim of the power of the blood of christ is true .. then what can compel us to practice actions which we KNOW to be sin ? is there then a power greater than the redemptive blood of there lord jesus that disables him from setting us free from some particular sin ? i know of NONE . there is no sin so great that the one born again of the spirit of God cannot over come it and walk in the victory the lord jesus has FULLY won . -if indeed you have been born again of water and of the spirit of God .

 

[visionary]

Yeshua said "Go and sin no more"... therefore He believed it is possible to live without sin... since He also lived it.. as living proof it can be done and we are to be "imitators of Christ"

 

[psalms 91]

Exactly, He is our example of what man can do through the Holy Spirit

 

[Lamb]

If those men prior to Jesus were truly sinless, they would have been the ones to die on the cross. Only the lamb without blemish could do that.

 

[MoreCoffee]

It is interesting to see the variety of opinion between Lutheran and Pentecostal (word of faith) Christians.

 

[Josiah]

I am saying that the holy scriptures call Job blameless (perfect) and upright. I am saying that those words come from Jehovah's conversation. God himself says it. Who will oppose his words?

No. The verse says ON EARTH...... you keep deleting that part. There may have been 50,000 people on the Earth then (not a lot anyway)..... and COMPARED TO THEM, those sinners, those with a sinful nature, those with original sin according to the RC Denomination.... ON EARTH, Job was special. Okay. That's a long way from saying Job saved himself (or more precisely, was the one who didn't need saving). But again, the Law is NOT, "Thou shalt be better than the average sinful bloat on earth at any given moment." It's, "Thou shalt be perfect as God in heaven is perfect." "Thou shalt be holy as God is holy." Are you? Perfect just as God is? Holy just as God is? From the microsecond of your conception to the microsecond of your death? NO sinful nature? NO original sin? NO sins of commission or omission? NO sins of thought or word or deed? The moral equal of God? Really? I guess one with a sufficient ego (or in a complete state of denial) could so claim, but I think many Christians fall short there. Perhaps the reason why you are so, so very compelled to make self as big as possible and make God as small as possible..... why you insist on looking in the mirror at self and boasting instead of looking to the Cross and confessing is because you've evaded the Law, watered it down to nothing, and replaced it with an enormous ego. Perhaps. In any case, no matter the thread, every time something about soteriology comes up, you evade Christ and the Cross and the Blood and the Lamb and mercy... if Christ is mentioned at all (and that's very rare!), He's just a helper. But mostly, it's you. YOU, YOU, YOU, YOU, YOU. Yeah, at times, informed and articulate Catholics will affirm the soteriology of Islam and some Hindus by stressing that they don't save themselves by themselves but get divine HELP - they echo Islam and Hinduism and TRY to make it sound Christian, but it's not....

I think all notice your persistent, passionate effort to distance yourself as a Catholic from Christ, the Cross, the Blood, mercy.... and this constant, passionate aggrandizing of self, this constant claim of how good you are. This effort to make self as large as possible, Christ as small as possible. It IS what many Catholics do. And there are non-RCC'ers who notice it and note it.... what you post is why.




Pax


- Josiah