are we saved if we remain in sin -? no

[MoreCoffee]

If those men prior to Jesus were truly sinless, they would have been the ones to die on the cross. Only the lamb without blemish could do that.

One ought to be careful with the meaning of words such as "sinless", because Job and Enoch are praised by Jehovah with words like "perfect and upright" as well as "pleased Jehovah" and (in the case of Enoch) being received into heaven apparently without physically dying, since one may be completely free of actual sins (sinful acts that a person chooses to do him/her self) yet still be a descendant of Adam and thus under the curse and subject to death. Romans chapter five teaches about this very matter:

Therefore as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned-- sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sins were not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come. But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift in the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. And the free gift is not like the effect of that one man's sin. For the judgement following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brings justification. If, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ. Then as one man's trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one man's act of righteousness leads to acquittal and life for all men. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by one man's obedience many will be made righteous. Law came in, to increase the trespass; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 5:12-21)​

 

[psalms 91]

Praised yes, not declared sinless

 

[Lamb]

One ought to be careful with the meaning of words such as "sinless",

I'll say the same back

 

[MoreCoffee]

I'll say the same back

It is interesting that you've used the word and so have several others but I have not except in quotes of your posts and other people's posts and a word of caution about using it.

 

[psalms 91]

sinless doesnt enter in except with Christ

 

[Lamb]

It is interesting that you've used the word and so have several others but I have not except in quotes of your posts and other people's posts and a word of caution about using it.

Then I believe I missed your point to bring up those men from the bible? We are all saved the same way, not by how good we are but how good Jesus is and His death on the cross is where all our sins were atoned for. Those prior to His death had faith in the Savior who was to come. Their good works stemmed from that faith but was not the cause of their salvation.

1 John 2:2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Then I believe I missed your point to bring up those men from the bible? We are all saved the same way, not by how good we are but how good Jesus is and His death on the cross is where all our sins were atoned for. Those prior to His death had faith in the Savior who was to come. Their good works stemmed from that faith but was not the cause of their salvation.

1 John 2:2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

The point is clear in what I wrote. Job was perfect and righteous. Enoch pleased God. One ought to be careful about accusing the holy ones of sin. Satan is the accuser of the brethren.

 

[Alithis]

And..back to the topic.
he that says he has no sin is a liar ... that's one side of the line
blessed is the man unto who the lord does not impute sin (any sin) -because he is forgiven ..is the other side of the line

does a person who stands washed in the blood of the lamb have sin.. ? no, that would be to say christ failed on the cross .... can that person then go and commit a sin ..yes ,if they walk accroding to the old nature instead of walking in the perfect Holy Spirit to obey him. for if we walk in the spirit we will not fulfill the lust of the flesh -and thereby , sin. (will not- means ,will not )
but in order to arrive at that washed clean state ..they must first admit they have sin. and to not confess they are a sinner is to lie .but it is the very state we must come to that w may be saved from sin.. the state of repentance ..

but once that has occurred then God forgives and Christs blood washes us clean from ALL unrighteousness ,not some .
and it is now ,in that clean state, that we are deemed to be the righteousness of God IN christ Jesus ..for we -if we have been buried into his death by baptism ..are then raised again into his resurection as a new creature in chrsit -the old died the new is reborn out of the waters of baptism . so while we WERE all sinners and none rightous -before we were reborn , we are now not an unrightous sinner but one justified by faith in christ .. and As one justified by faith we must now walk worthy of that state that god has so graciously bought us to by the sacrifice of his own Son . and not return to serving sin .
now that we have been saved to live righteously should we continue in sin from which we were saved and expect to arrive in the kingdom of God ..? nope. sin brings death and God is not mocked what so ever a man sow that wil he also reap.

as ones set free (-if we have indeed be set free and are not just fooling ourselves -) we are set free and empowered to OVERCOME the world as christ overcame the world .
thus no man can sin except he so desires to do so and ignores the holy Spirit and chooses to commit the action he knows to be sin.. this is called wilful sin -and as it is written, "For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment ....................."

If we say "oh but I can't stop doing that sin no matter how had i try".. then we have not yet been saved from it .. we can't say I have been set free while we remain a prisoner .so our actions displays that we do not yet know God .
we cant say we are under grace because a person who has tasted the grace of God so loves the lord so much that he does not desire to ever oppose and rebel against the one he loves ..just as the lord Jesus said ,,if you love me you will keep my teachings (it equates to ..you will do as i say and as i showed you )

we judge our own hearts ..
we are justified by faith and washed clean from all sin ,set free from its power and dominion .. do we then LET it have dominion over us ?
we are set free we say .. do we then enslave ourselves to that which we claim to be set free from ?

if all we claim of the power of the blood of christ is true .. then what can compel us to practice actions which we KNOW to be sin ? is there then a power greater than the redemptive blood of there lord jesus that disables him from setting us free from some particular sin ? i know of NONE . there is no sin so great that the one born again of the spirit of God cannot over come it and walk in the victory the lord jesus has FULLY won . -if indeed you have been born again of water and of the spirit of God .

 

[Alithis]

.

 

[psalms 91]

The point is clear in what I wrote. Job was perfect and righteous. Enoch pleased God. One ought to be careful about accusing the holy ones of sin. Satan is the accuser of the brethren.

The Word says that all men are sinners

 

[MoreCoffee]

The Word says that all men are sinners

That is not exactly correct. A verse of holy scripture says it. Yet, another verse of holy scripture says of Job that he is perfect and righteous. And still another verse of holy scripture says that the Lord Jesus Christ was without sin. And one other verse of holy scripture says the Enoch walked with God and that he pleased God.

 

[Full O Beans]

The point is clear in what I wrote. Job was perfect and righteous. Enoch pleased God. One ought to be careful about accusing the holy ones of sin. Satan is the accuser of the brethren.

Everyone is born a sinner---even Job and Enoch. But once we have experienced God's great forgiveness and mercy, through faith in Jesus Christ, we are no longer considered sinners by God, but His righteous sons and daughters. Those who have experienced Jesus Christ no longer walk in sin, but have a whole new paradigm---they now have an aversion to sin.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Everyone is born a sinner---even Job and Enoch.

What do you mean by "born a sinner"? Where do the holy scriptures say that "everyone is born a sinner"?

But once we have experienced God's great forgiveness and mercy, through faith in Jesus Christ, we are no longer considered sinners by God, but His righteous sons and daughters. Those who have experienced Jesus Christ no longer walk in sin, but have a whole new paradigm---they now have an aversion to sin.

 

[Full O Beans]

What do you mean by "born a sinner"? Where do the holy scriptures say that "everyone is born a sinner"?

Just as David has said---we are born just as he was, in sin.

Psalm 51:5
For I was born a sinner—
yes, from the moment my mother conceived me.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Just as David has said---we are born just as he was, in sin.

Psalm 51:5
For I was born a sinner—
yes, from the moment my mother conceived me.

That verse says that Psalmist was born a sinner. What about all the billions of people who are not that Psalmist? Where is the passage in holy scripture that says they are all "born a sinner"?

 

[Full O Beans]

That verse says that Psalmist was born a sinner. What about all the billions of people who are not that Psalmist? Where is the passage in holy scripture that says they are all "born a sinner"?

We are no different from David.

 

[MoreCoffee]

We are no different from David.

They most certainly are different. And you have not shown a verse that says "everyone is born a sinner" or teaches that idea using different words.

 

[Full O Beans]

They most certainly are different. And you have not shown a verse that says "everyone is born a sinner" or teaches that idea using different words.

Wrong. We are born in sin just as David was.

Romans 5:12
When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam’s sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned.


.
We are all born unbelievers!

Romans 11:32
For God has imprisoned everyone in disobedience so he could have mercy on everyone.

John 16:8-9
And when he comes, he will convict the world of its sin, and of God’s righteousness, and of the coming judgment. 9 The world’s sin is that it refuses to believe in me.


.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Wrong. We are born in sin just as David was.

Romans 5:12
When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam’s sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned.

Job is called perfect and righteous. Jesus is said to be without sin. Enoch is said to have pleased God and to have been taken [to heaven] because he pleased God. These facts appear to challenge the interpretation you are giving to the psalm and the way you're using Romans 5:12.

We are all born unbelievers!

Jesus was certainly not born an unbeliever.

Romans 11:32
For God has imprisoned everyone in disobedience so he could have mercy on everyone.

John 16:8-9
And when he comes, he will convict the world of its sin, and of God’s righteousness, and of the coming judgement. 9 The world’s sin is that it refuses to believe in me.

 

[psalms 91]

Jesus the only one born without original sin and the only one sinless. How many scriptures do you have to ripout to make this so called sinless man fit? Quite a few and the bibnle says what someone is that says he is without sin