Did the word made flesh, born forth from the womb of the virgin need ....

[Alithis]

Did the word made flesh born forth from the womb of the virgin need any part of the woman to be fully man ?

now this is a question for which I have no answer but i have heard it said that it is from her egg that he is conceived..

yet why would that be so ?

Why would the creator need her egg at all ? the angel says the child within is "of the holy GHost ".. he does not say he is of mary AND the holy Ghost .

this is not a statement ..lol

convince me either way .
(and to be transparent i will add the question .. "what about Adam " )

 

[psalms 91]

If Jesus had no humanity as a part how could He be man?

 

[Lamb]

Mary was not just a vessel to carry the Lord on her womb. I will try later to get scripture since I am away from my laptop now.

 

[Josiah]

Did the word made flesh born forth from the womb of the virgin need any part of the woman to be fully man ?

now this is a question for which I have no answer but i have heard it said that it is from her egg that he is conceived..

yet why would that be so ?

Why would the creator need her egg at all ? the angel says the child within is "of the holy GHost ".. he does not say he is of mary AND the holy Ghost .

this is not a statement ..lol

convince me either way .
(and to be transparent i will add the question .. "what about Adam " )

The Savior could not be in place of man without being a man.


Yes - you could THEORIZE that Christianity is wrong and that no Savior was needed (perhaps you believe God just became unjust and said "What the ______, let's just forget") but of course, that's not Christianity. While you are at it, you could equally THEORIZE that there is no God, no heaven, no hell. And some do. But again, that's not Christianity.





.

 

[visionary]

Just as God created man, so also could He have created another being in which He took upon Himself. But instead He chose to take the flesh of fallen man to show that even in a fallen state He can live a pure life.

 

[Lamb]

Isa.7:14: Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Here scripture shows that Mary conceived. Does that mean something different to you?

 

[psalms 91]

what about Adam he was perfect till he fell it was as a man he fell and as man origibal sin was passed on. Christ had to be a man and the last Adam in order to redeem us

 

[MoreCoffee]

what about Adam he was perfect till he fell it was as a man he fell and as man origibal sin was passed on. Christ had to be a man and the last Adam in order to redeem us

That is all true. Amen. And also true is that Christ came to save sinners - human beings - and so to make their salvation secure he had to be a human being and take human nature to heaven when he had risen from the grave. The faithful are assured of their own ultimate salvation because he, as the author and finisher of the faith, is one of us and one of us has already been taken to be with God forever in holy bliss.

 

[psalms 91]

That is all true. Amen. And also true is that Christ came to save sinners - human beings - and so to make their salvation secure he had to be a human being and take human nature to heaven when he had risen from the grave. The faithful are assured of their own ultimate salvation because he, as the author and finisher of the faith, is one of us and one of us has already been taken to be with God forever in holy bliss.

Amen

 

[Alithis]

If Jesus had no humanity as a part how could He be man?

..think on that

Mary was not just a vessel to carry the Lord on her womb. I will try later to get scripture since I am away from my laptop now.

Isa.7:14: Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Here scripture shows that Mary conceived. Does that mean something different to you?

this- the valid scripture a d question that cannot be ignored in this topic . ....

Just as God created man, so also could He have created another being in which He took upon Himself. But instead He chose to take the flesh of fallen man to show that even in a fallen state He can live a pure life.

- A valid point that also could not be ignored .. that is to say .. God did not create adam by causing a virgin to conceive So it raises the question was Adam not fully man because he was not "born from the womb "?-of course he was.. dont shoot me folks it's just a question

That is all true. Amen. And also true is that Christ came to save sinners - human beings - and so to make their salvation secure he had to be a human being and take human nature to heaven when he had risen from the grave. The faithful are assured of their own ultimate salvation because he, as the author and finisher of the faith, is one of us and one of us has already been taken to be with God forever in holy bliss.

...yes but it does not say the word of God became hu-man ..it says the word of God "became flesh" .. a "man" .. again just questions .

General Question - what determines that he is fully man ..fully flesh and blood .. ?if he is the second Adam .., was adam not fully flesh and blood without being born of a woman ? he was. So what part of being born of a woman makes the anointed one any more flesh or not being born of a woman any less flesh .. since all flesh is created by God (even by his word ,for by his word all things were created )
it seems to me at this point that being born forth from the womb has no part in causes him to be flesh ,he is the word of God he is not confined to such a need nor means ,having formed adam from the dust of the earth .
the fact he was born forth from the womb of a virgin has more to do with it being the announcing SIGN that this child is THE ONE then it does with him being fully man . its all very interesting (and i realize there are mysteries involved that none here can answer )

 

[Lamb]

Adam was made man but Jesus was conceived. They were both 100% man yet Jesus is 100% God at the same time.

 

[psalms 91]

Yes

 

[MoreCoffee]

The doctrine of the incarnation is summarised in these words:

"We believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God
and Man.

He is God of the substance of the Father begotten before the worlds, and He
is man of the substance of His mother born in the world; perfect God,
perfect man subsisting of a reasoning soul and human flesh; equal to the
Father as touching His Godhead, inferior to the Father as touching His
Manhood.

Who although He be God and Man yet He is not two but one Christ; one
however not by conversion of the GodHead in the flesh, but by taking of the
Manhood in God; one altogether not by confusion of substance but by unity
of Person. For as the reasoning soul and flesh is one man, so God and Man
is one Christ.

Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again from the
dead, ascended into heaven, sits at the right hand of the Father, from
whence He shall come to judge the living and the dead. At whose coming all
men shall rise again with their bodies and shall give account for their own
works. And they that have done good shall go into life eternal, and they
who indeed have done evil into eternal fire."​

 

[Alithis]

Adam was made man but Jesus was conceived. They were both 100% man yet Jesus is 100% God at the same time.

yes of course though not the topic -dont be afraid to search out the things of the scriptures to see if "other things " we have been taught to assume ,are indeed aligned with the scriptures or merely things passed on by assumptions that became tradition that became assumed to be truth. file it under "testing all things "

. So he was born of a virgin for what reason -? based on scripture it was for the reason of "a sign" .. Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.

but why the assumption his "becoming flesh " had anything to do with the virgin ? why the assumption that god required an egg to be fertilized? if he who is spirit and it is "by whom all things were created .for by his word all things were created and without HIM nothing was created that has been created " and he who is spirit became seed then why assume he who is spirit did not also become egg ? so that he who is spirit "became " flesh , just as the word of God states . it does not say the word of God became seed and then entwined with the egg of a woman to fertilize it .. -Yet that is almost an unspoken assumption and an imposed implication . but why would he require that to occur . is he who is spirit can then become a physical being in the form of the seed he could also become the physical being in the form of the egg meaning he could become the fertilized egg also .. he is GOD .
what dictates that he be of any part of sinful man to become the sinless saviour ? nothing i can see in scripture at this point in time dictates that to me .
the only reason i see in scripture that he is born of a virgin at all ..is as a SIGN to the world a sign declaring who he is becaseu it is foretold that it would be .

now .. of course that begs -and rightly so - a look into the word "conceived "

that was interesting . take a look at the link . note the root word etymology also - fascinating . the seizing, taking or "getting " nature of the word is intriguing . Also the many variations of the term and use of the word translated as "conceived" . observing it objectively i see nothing in the meaning of the word either that dictates God required any "part " of mary (ie egg ) in order for his "word " to become manifest as flesh .just as he needed no egg to form adam as flesh ...

 

[Alithis]

The doctrine of the incarnation is summarised in these words:

"We believe and confess ...... <snip> and He is man of the substance of His mother <snip> ."​

we can "believe " many things .. but does that automatically make it so ?we can "state (confess) many things -but dos our declaration automatically make it so simple because we declare it to be so.? in both cases no .
for instance -He is man of the substance of His mother ... (picked this bit because it is on topic ) what scripture is this based on?
or is it the case of "someone assumed it to be so "it then got picked up and taught ,became tradition and has now been ingrained as a doctrine as if it is absolute truth .. but -is it absolute truth ?

 

[MoreCoffee]

...what scripture is this based on?
...

The holy scriptures say that the Lord was born of a woman and made man. The holy scriptures also say that there is one mediator between man and God who is himself a man. Is that enough to meet your needs?

 

[psalms 91]

I agree

 

[TurtleHare]

Doesn't Genesis 3 speak of the woman's offspring?

 

[Alithis]

The holy scriptures say that the Lord was born of a woman and made man. The holy scriptures also say that there is one mediator between man and God who is himself a man. Is that enough to meet your needs?

It says that he "" the "word " became flesh" and that he will be born forth into the world via a virgin -as a sign .

but side note: i asked where it states "and He is man of the substance of His mother"? dont use creeds and declaration as if they establish doctrines they dont they just declare and announce . the word of God is what every doctrine must be built upon .. ie -what the entire scriptures says about any given topic .. never one part only .

Doesn't Genesis 3 speak of the woman's offspring?

THIS - is scripture .thus cannot be ignored -thanks for the reminder !

"And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring (seed)and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel."

if i were tempted to say it merely speaks of thier children generally down through the ages ..as in all of us , i would then be hindered by the use of the word "HE " ..not "them" .
but "he" can mean "them .. so i now must go and look into that ..

 

[MoreCoffee]

Since the Lord was born of a women (Galatians 4:4) and that he is himself a man (Titus 2:5) and since he is descended from Adam (Luke 3:23-38) according to the holy scriptures it is clear that he is a man and received his ancestry through both his mother and his adopted father.