Is it immoral for a Christian to eat pork?

[Stravinsk]

The holy scriptures call it "old covenant". Here's an example: "But their minds were hardened; for to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away." (2 Corinthians 3:14)

Writing of Saul/Paul, the deceiver and false prophet, who had 0 named witnesses to his "blinding light conversion", quotes Dionysus from Bacchae in his telling of the event and who's conversion story contradicts itself in it's 3 versions.

The holy scriptures call the old covenant abolished. I showed that before in this verse: "He has abolished the law with its commandments and ordinances, so that he might create in himself one new humanity in place of the two, thus making peace," (Ephesians 2:15)

Quote from Saul/Paul - who's name means "Asked for", "Question him", "Grave" - named after a wicked and disobedient King whom the Israelites wanted because they rejected God. Saul/Paul - who's Ephesians address was penned exactly 666 years after the writing of the prophet Habakkuk, who mentions him in Habakkuk chapter 2 as a deceiver and who leads people astray.

It isn't merely an opinion that I happen to hold it is what the holy scriptures explicitly state. You happen to reject those holy scriptures so you reach whatever conclusions suit.

I reject the false apostle Saul/Paul.

It is what my religion tells me because it is what Christ taught and what the apostles transmitted as the teaching of Christ. You reject many of the teachings of Christ because you reject the holy scriptures that contain them. That is more a matter of your religion being divergent from Christianity than it is a peculiarity of my religion. The truth is that every Christian Church and virtually every Christian denomination and group rejects the dietary laws of the old covenant because they were abrogated.

Nope - you reject the real teachings of Christ in favor of the deceiver Saul/Paul's teachings - who is not a real apostle despite what he claims.

Yes, and also from eating finned fish, vegetables, grains, fruit, and all manner of foods. Your argument is highly biased by selectivity in the claims you advance. Sure one can be infected by various pathogens by eating almost any food. That is why the condition is called food poisoning rather than pork & shell fish poisoning.

No, it is rightly called shellfish poisoning if it is from shellfish. Try googling the term.

Your final observation is strange when one considers that other demons were cast out in the holy scriptures and did not infect pigs. In at least one case the Lord spoke of demons wandering looking for a home. Using the kind of interpretation you've advanced we ought to be careful of wildernesses. "Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil." (Matthew 4:1) "'When the unclean spirit has gone out of a person, it wanders through waterless regions looking for a resting-place, but it finds none. Then it says, "I will return to my house from which I came." When it comes, it finds it empty, swept, and put in order. Then it goes and brings along seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they enter and live there; and the last state of that person is worse than the first. So will it be also with this evil generation.'" (Matthew 12:43-45)

I am glad that few exegetes would offer such an absurd doctrine built on so inadequate a foundation as the one you've used.

It is not strange. Pigs just happened to be in the area and according to God - they are unclean animals. Like vultures and other unclean animals - they are designed as the world's garbage collectors. So when Yeshua cast some demons into them, it was simply a matter of letting the garbage collectors take out the garbage. The demons, from memory even asked to be sent in to herd of swine.

 

[MoreCoffee]

[MENTION=216]Stravinsk[/MENTION], you really ought not to be participating in this thread if your intent is to denigrate the holy scriptures.

 

[psalms 91]

I agree with MC

 

[Stravinsk]

[MENTION=216]Stravinsk[/MENTION], you really ought not to be participating in this thread if your intent is to denigrate the holy scriptures.

I will not apologize for telling the truth, nor will I apologize for giving my reasons for rejecting Christianity's favorite Pharisee. You can quote Saul/Paul all day and keep repeating that his writings are "holy", and as long as you do to back up an argument I'm going to call him into question. If it stings and you don't like it, that is too bad.

Which part of what I said is "denigrating" Saul/Paul's writings? Everything I pointed out is true.

The favorite wolf from the tribe of Benjamin (like King Saul) snarls and growls when he is caught. As he was caught by the Ephesus Jews:

Revelation 2 “To the angel[a] of the church in Ephesus write:

These are the words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand and walks among the seven golden lampstands. 2 I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked people, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false. 3 You have persevered and have endured hardships for my name, and have not grown weary.

The same ones that interrupted Saul/Paul's Nazirite ritual in Acts 21: 27-32

The same ones Paul complains that have rejected him in his own writings: 2 Timothy 1:15

Yes, Yeshua commends them.

 

[Stravinsk]

Double post

 

[psalms 91]

wow just wow what twisting

 

[MoreCoffee]

I will not apologize for telling the truth, nor will I apologize for giving my reasons for rejecting Christianity's favorite Pharisee. You can quote Saul/Paul all day and keep repeating that his writings are "holy", and as long as you do to back up an argument I'm going to call him into question. If it stings and you don't like it, that is too bad.

Which part of what I said is "denigrating" Saul/Paul's writings? Everything I pointed out is true.

The favorite wolf from the tribe of Benjamin (like King Saul) snarls and growls when he is caught. As he was caught by the Ephesus Jews:

Revelation 2 “To the angel[a] of the church in Ephesus write:

These are the words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand and walks among the seven golden lampstands. 2 I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked people, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false. 3 You have persevered and have endured hardships for my name, and have not grown weary.

The same ones that interrupted Saul/Paul's Nazirite ritual in Acts 21: 27-32

The same ones Paul complains that have rejected him in his own writings: 2 Timothy 1:15

Yes, Yeshua commends them.

Double post

Twice the button pressing results in ... twice the anti-Paul propaganda. Take it to a different subforum.

 

[visionary]

From the Ten commandments you get the code of morality. ... from the dietary laws you get good advise from God that which is good to eat.

 

[Stravinsk]

Twice the button pressing results in ... twice the anti-Paul propaganda. Take it to a different subforum.

Ironic, isn't it - that the "anti-Paul propaganda" is coming straight from passages included in what you deem holy Scripture, such as Acts and Timothy, which I don't, and Revelation, which I do.

Check those dates on when Habakkuk was written in comparison to Ephesians yet? Probably not. 666 years. Habakkuk chapter 2 is about a major figure that leads lots of people astray. 666 years later, Ephesians is penned by Saul/Paul. Those Ephesians reject him as an Apostle both in Acts and Revelation.

Did you just start this thread to hear confirmation for your own beliefs from the like minded?

That is weakness.

As a side note - perhaps you will think twice about encouraging another to break their own faith when the thing they may struggle with you are encouraging them to do. You know I'm not a fan of Saul/Paul, but even he says this is wrong.

 

[MoreCoffee]

From the Ten commandments you get the code of morality. ... from the dietary laws you get good advise from God that which is good to eat.

If it is merely good advice then it is not a sin to not heed it.

 

[psalms 91]

of course it is not a sin just good advice that if heeded will make you more healthy

 

[MoreCoffee]

of course it is not a sin just good advice that if heeded will make you more healthy

More healthy than who?

 

[psalms 91]

More healthy than who?

good grief is everything a question with you? enough already

 

[MoreCoffee]

good grief is everything a question with you? enough already

I presume that you meant "more healthy than you would otherwise have been", but then the same or better can be said for being a vegetarian. You get exasperated because your claims are not well founded and cannot withstand serious examination. If the laws on clean & unclean foods were a health measure then vegetarianism would have been better advice than the advice in the Law. But they were not a health measure. They were religious laws about purity and ritual. And that is why they no longer persist as rules which Christians ought to observe. Our religion has no sacrifices and hence no clean & unclean animals that are worthy sacrifices for Jehovah. Since we offer no sacrifices we have no Law about them or about which beasts are clean and which are unclean.

 

[visionary]

Is God wise? Did He create the animals and knows the ins and outs of them. Does He care about our diet or our health? If so, then what advice has He given mankind?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Is God wise? Did He create the animals and knows the ins and outs of them. Does He care about our diet or our health? If so, then what advice has He given mankind?

You're offering opinions and human reasoning to justify a religious stance that is not consistent with the gospel. Pork is not prohibited to the faithful under the new covenant.

 

[visionary]

You're offering opinions and human reasoning to justify a religious stance that is not consistent with the gospel. Pork is not prohibited to the faithful under the new covenant.

All those were questions and not opinions.

 

[MoreCoffee]

All those were questions and not opinions.

Questions?

Okay, God is wise, did you really not know that? If it was a question and not a bit of rhetoric dressed up as a question then you must not have known and that is a frighting thing to see in your posts since you set yourself up as a teacher. Were you really asking or just using the "question" as a tool to advance some argument you wish to make?

Did He create the animals and knows the ins and outs of them do you really not know? Honestly?

Does He care about our diet or our health no, not in the way you think. The lord Jesus Christ says: "Do you not see that whatever goes into the mouth passes into the stomach, and so passes on?" (Matthew 15:17)

if so, then what advice has He given mankind Advice? The commands are not advice. They are commands given through Moses to Israel to be observed in all their generations forever. For those who identify as Israelites under the old covenant the laws are fully binding and remain in force even if they cannot obey them because they have no temple and cannot offer sacrifices. Yet for those who Identify as the true Israel, the Israel of God, which is the Church of the living God, these have no laws about sacrifices because their once for all time sacrifice is already made and they have no clean & unclean animals to be used in any other sacrifices. The Law of sacrifice is abrogated, Christ himself has become the sacrifice offered for the sins of the faithful under the new covenant. No more are the people of God to be bound by laws of sacrifice and laws about clean and unclean animals or clean and unclean foods.

 

[visionary]

Questions?

Okay, God is wise, did you really not know that? If it was a question and not a bit of rhetoric dressed up as a question then you must not have known and that is a frighting thing to see in your posts since you set yourself up as a teacher. Were you really asking or just using the "question" as a tool to advance some argument you wish to make?

Did He create the animals and knows the ins and outs of them do you really not know? Honestly?

Does He care about our diet or our health no, not in the way you think. The lord Jesus Christ says: "Do you not see that whatever goes into the mouth passes into the stomach, and so passes on?" (Matthew 15:17)

if so, then what advice has He given mankind Advice? The commands are not advice. They are commands given through Moses to Israel to be observed in all their generations forever. For those who identify as Israelites under the old covenant the laws are fully binding and remain in force even if they cannot obey them because they have no temple and cannot offer sacrifices. Yet for those who Identify as the true Israel, the Israel of God, which is the Church of the living God, these have no laws about sacrifices because their once for all time sacrifice is already made and they have no clean & unclean animals to be used in any other sacrifices. The Law of sacrifice is abrogated, Christ himself has become the sacrifice offered for the sins of the faithful under the new covenant. No more are the people of God to be bound by laws of sacrifice and laws about clean and unclean animals or clean and unclean foods.

What a mess... That branch of thought will break.

 

[MoreCoffee]

What a mess... That branch of thought will break.

No reply?

The commands are not advice. They are commands given through Moses to Israel to be observed in all their generations forever. For those who identify as Israelites under the old covenant the laws are fully binding and remain in force even if they cannot obey them because they have no temple and cannot offer sacrifices. Yet for those who Identify as the true Israel, the Israel of God, which is the Church of the living God, these have no laws about sacrifices because their once for all time sacrifice is already made and they have no clean & unclean animals to be used in any other sacrifices. The Law of sacrifice is abrogated, Christ himself has become the sacrifice offered for the sins of the faithful under the new covenant. No more are the people of God to be bound by laws of sacrifice and laws about clean and unclean animals or clean and unclean foods.