Is it immoral for a Christian to eat pork?

tango

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Is God wise? Did He create the animals and knows the ins and outs of them. Does He care about our diet or our health? If so, then what advice has He given mankind?

Something like this?

Act 10:9-15 NKJV The next day, as they went on their journey and drew near the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray, about the sixth hour. (10) Then he became very hungry and wanted to eat; but while they made ready, he fell into a trance (11) and saw heaven opened and an object like a great sheet bound at the four corners, descending to him and let down to the earth. (12) In it were all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air. (13) And a voice came to him, "Rise, Peter; kill and eat." (14) But Peter said, "Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean." (15) And a voice spoke to him again the second time, "What God has cleansed you must not call common."
 

Stravinsk

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Something like this?

Act 10:9-15 NKJV The next day, as they went on their journey and drew near the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray, about the sixth hour. (10) Then he became very hungry and wanted to eat; but while they made ready, he fell into a trance (11) and saw heaven opened and an object like a great sheet bound at the four corners, descending to him and let down to the earth. (12) In it were all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air. (13) And a voice came to him, "Rise, Peter; kill and eat." (14) But Peter said, "Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean." (15) And a voice spoke to him again the second time, "What God has cleansed you must not call common."

That's not the place to stop. Keep reading and according to the story it's clear Peter is not aware of the meaning of the vision. Why is he wondering about it? vrs 17

Again, according to the story, Peter later testifies to the meaning of the vision himself - not to call any man unclean. vrs 28. So unless Peter is going to eat Cornelius or Gentiles in general, then it should be as clear that the vision has nothing to do with a change in the dietary law.
 

tango

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That's not the place to stop. Keep reading and according to the story it's clear Peter is not aware of the meaning of the vision. Why is he wondering about it? vrs 17

Again, according to the story, Peter later testifies to the meaning of the vision himself - not to call any man unclean. vrs 28. So unless Peter is going to eat Cornelius or Gentiles in general, then it should be as clear that the vision has nothing to do with a change in the dietary law.

There's certainly some merit to that argument but the fact that unclean animals were shown in the vision does lead me to wonder why the Spirit wouldn't have just provided a vision of unclean people being considered clean, maybe lepers being cleansed or similar.

There are other things that suggest the dietary laws given to the Jews don't apply to the Gentiles:

Gal 2:11-16 NKJV Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; (12) for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. (13) And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy. (14) But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, "If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews? (15) We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, (16) knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.


Even Jesus said that we aren't made unclean by the things we eat (I think someone already mentioned it further up)

Mat 15:11 NKJV Not what goes into the mouth defiles a man; but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man."

Mat 15:17-20 NKJV Do you not yet understand that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and is eliminated? (18) But those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile a man. (19) For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies. (20) These are the things which defile a man, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man."


If we are going to try and live by the Jewish law we need to live by all of the law. So we'd have to stop trimming the edges of our beards, stop wearing clothing of mixed fibers, regard women as ceremonially unclean during their monthly cycle and so on.

Putting it all together we can see the idea that Jesus told us that things going into our mouths don't make us unclean, Peter is told not to call the things God cleansed unclean, and we aren't Jews anyway (at least I'm not a Jew), so it's hard to put it all together and conclude anything other than I may eat pork if I so choose.
 

Stravinsk

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There's certainly some merit to that argument but the fact that unclean animals were shown in the vision does lead me to wonder why the Spirit wouldn't have just provided a vision of unclean people being considered clean, maybe lepers being cleansed or similar.

I agree, the vision does not seem to fit the conclusion Peter comes to. Merely pointing out that the argument can't be made from the limited context because the extended context shows it is about something else, according to Peter in the passage.

There are other things that suggest the dietary laws given to the Jews don't apply to the Gentiles:

Gal 2:11-16 NKJV Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; (12) for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. (13) And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy. (14) But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, "If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews? (15) We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, (16) knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

I generally don't give Saul/Paul any credence but even though it's a little off topic I feel it's worth pointing out that Saul/Paul's preaching here is hypocritical by his own account that he himself practices "when in Rome" - chameleon behavior. See 1 Corinthians 9:19-23. What he is accusing Peter of in the Galatians passage he is hypocritically doing himself and teaching others to in the 1 Corinthian 9 passage.

Even Jesus said that we aren't made unclean by the things we eat (I think someone already mentioned it further up)

Mat 15:11 NKJV Not what goes into the mouth defiles a man; but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man."

Mat 15:17-20 NKJV Do you not yet understand that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and is eliminated? (18) But those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile a man. (19) For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies. (20) These are the things which defile a man, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man."

Context is very important. Jesus is not eating some bacon or ham. The criticism leveled at Him has to do with ceremony - in this case - washing hands before one eats. Without that context, any doctrine can be made of this insofar as food goes. That He also points out a spiritual truth (vrs 18-20) in the latter part does not negate this context. If in fact He was eating something unclean (pork, shellfish etc), then those making the criticism would almost certainly point that out - rather than a ceremonial matter of washing hands.

If we are going to try and live by the Jewish law we need to live by all of the law. So we'd have to stop trimming the edges of our beards, stop wearing clothing of mixed fibers, regard women as ceremonially unclean during their monthly cycle and so on.

Putting it all together we can see the idea that Jesus told us that things going into our mouths don't make us unclean, Peter is told not to call the things God cleansed unclean, and we aren't Jews anyway (at least I'm not a Jew), so it's hard to put it all together and conclude anything other than I may eat pork if I so choose.

I admit I cannot see the moral sense in beard trimming or clothing of two different kinds of fibers. I can see the moral sense of not giving a person under-cooked meat which can make him or her sick. In the same way, I can see the moral sense in letting someone know that pork and shellfish can still make one sick even (if they happen to be) farmed by strict standards and cooked thoroughly.
 

MoreCoffee

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There's certainly some merit to that argument but the fact that unclean animals were shown in the vision does lead me to wonder why the Spirit wouldn't have just provided a vision of unclean people being considered clean, maybe lepers being cleansed or similar.

There are other things that suggest the dietary laws given to the Jews don't apply to the Gentiles:

Gal 2:11-16 NKJV Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; (12) for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. (13) And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy. (14) But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, "If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews? (15) We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, (16) knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.


Even Jesus said that we aren't made unclean by the things we eat (I think someone already mentioned it further up)

Mat 15:11 NKJV Not what goes into the mouth defiles a man; but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man."

Mat 15:17-20 NKJV Do you not yet understand that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and is eliminated? (18) But those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile a man. (19) For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies. (20) These are the things which defile a man, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man."


If we are going to try and live by the Jewish law we need to live by all of the law. So we'd have to stop trimming the edges of our beards, stop wearing clothing of mixed fibers, regard women as ceremonially unclean during their monthly cycle and so on.

Putting it all together we can see the idea that Jesus told us that things going into our mouths don't make us unclean, Peter is told not to call the things God cleansed unclean, and we aren't Jews anyway (at least I'm not a Jew), so it's hard to put it all together and conclude anything other than I may eat pork if I so choose.

It isn't just beard trimming and dietary restrictions that are enjoined in the law but also animal sacrifices. And the definitions of clean & unclean animals relate to which are suitable for sacrifice and which are not. The whole economy of animal sacrifice is inextricably tied to feasts and the dietary laws and the rules about clean & unclean things. It is all about the shedding of blood for the cleansing of the people and the articles in the temple. If one wants to keep the law and observe the feasts and the dietary rules then one cannot ignore the sacrifices which are commanded for each of the feasts nor the sacrifices for cleansing a person who has accidentally become unclean through contact with somebody or something that was unclean.
 

visionary

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Something like this?

Act 10:9-15 NKJV The next day, as they went on their journey and drew near the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray, about the sixth hour. (10) Then he became very hungry and wanted to eat; but while they made ready, he fell into a trance (11) and saw heaven opened and an object like a great sheet bound at the four corners, descending to him and let down to the earth. (12) In it were all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air. (13) And a voice came to him, "Rise, Peter; kill and eat." (14) But Peter said, "Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean." (15) And a voice spoke to him again the second time, "What God has cleansed you must not call common."

Keep reading... For Peter explains what the visions means...

16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven. 17 Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate, 18 And called, and asked whether Simon, which was surnamed Peter, were lodged there. 19 While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee. 20 Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them. 21 Then Peter went down to the men which were sent unto him from Cornelius; and said, Behold, I am he whom ye seek: what is the cause wherefore ye are come? 22 And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee. 23 Then called he them in, and lodged them. And on the morrow Peter went away with them, and certain brethren from Joppa accompanied him. 24 And the morrow after they entered into Caesarea. And Cornelius waited for them, and he had called together his kinsmen and near friends. 25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him. 26 But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man. 27 And as he talked with him, he went in, and found many that were come together.

28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
 

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I have some bacon in the fridge which I ought to cook tonight. God willing I'll cook it with some sweet potato, onions, carrots, peas, corn, a couple of potatoes, and some Brussels sprouts. A little dollop of sour bream with it is all cooked and ready to serve will top it off beautifully.
 

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I have some bacon in the fridge which I ought to cook tonight. God willing I'll cook it with some sweet potato, onions, carrots, peas, corn, a couple of potatoes, and some Brussels sprouts. A little dollop of sour bream with it is all cooked and ready to serve will top it off beautifully.
It is your health... you do as you choose...
 

tango

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Keep reading... For Peter explains what the visions means...

16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven. 17 Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate, 18 And called, and asked whether Simon, which was surnamed Peter, were lodged there. 19 While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee. 20 Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them. 21 Then Peter went down to the men which were sent unto him from Cornelius; and said, Behold, I am he whom ye seek: what is the cause wherefore ye are come? 22 And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee. 23 Then called he them in, and lodged them. And on the morrow Peter went away with them, and certain brethren from Joppa accompanied him. 24 And the morrow after they entered into Caesarea. And Cornelius waited for them, and he had called together his kinsmen and near friends. 25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him. 26 But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man. 27 And as he talked with him, he went in, and found many that were come together.

28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

Just had this discussion with Stravinsk.
 

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Find me a spot where God said it shall be food for you.

since it enters, not his heart but his stomach, and so passes on?" (Thus he declared all foods clean.) (Mark 7:19 RSV)
 

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The point is that while all foods are clean not all are beneficial. The way stuff is today you need to always pray over your food
 

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The point is that while all foods are clean not all are beneficial. The way stuff is today you need to always pray over your food

The point is that since all foods are clean the old covenant distinctions about clean and unclean are ended since what one eats enters, not his heart but his stomach, and so passes on?" That is how the Lord Jesus Christ declared all foods clean and broke down the wall separating Israel from the Gentiles.
 

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Yup but not all are wise to eat, but it is your choice
 

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Yup but not all are wise to eat, but it is your choice

So you keep saying while you at the same time hint or directly state that it is wicked to eat pork.
 

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unwise is not the same as wicked
 

psalms 91

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same reason eating fries is
 

Stravinsk

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since it enters, not his heart but his stomach, and so passes on?" (Thus he declared all foods clean.) (Mark 7:19 RSV)

Where does God say bacon is food? Or shellfish?

One cannot look at their culture, what people eat, then apply some biblical passage like the one you've taken here out of both it's immediate and larger context and assume it's the same.

In certain cultures bugs are considered "food". Do you consider grasshoppers and locusts "food"? Do you eat them? Wasn't it John the baptist that ate locusts and wild honey? And yet they are clean to eat.

To a Jew of Christ's time - pork and shellfish products were not on the menu. They were not part of Jewish culture, just like eating locusts isn't a part of western culture. They wouldn't have even referred to it as "food". One of the main reasons they wouldn't is because of the specific prohibitions against these things. It would be like you or I going into a restaurant and seeing on the menu "gorilla brains" or "roasted vulture carcass".
 
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