"Speaking in Tongues"

[Josiah]

Seems to me that threads about tongues go around and around in circles because those who believe they speak in tongues are convinced that their practise is what the bible teaches about while those who do not or who used to but no longer do are convinced otherwise.

I'm "convinced" of neither. A long, long, long way away from being "convinced" of EITHER.

Thus, my questions.




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[Full O Beans]

I'm "convinced" of neither. A long, long, long way away from being "convinced" of EITHER.

Thus, my questions.

If you seek Him, He will be found. You don't need people to lay it all out for you as I and Brighten have done. You reject that. So, the problem is in your own soul---your will is the problem. Deep down you are saying, "I will not believe!" and so you just don't. You may want to be convinced, but if you do not believe God's word, then there is nothing anyone can teach you, least of all Holy Spirit, who is our ultimate teacher.

 

[Josiah]

If you seek Him, He will be found. You don't need people to lay it all out for you as I and Brighten have done. You reject that. So, the problem is in your own soul---your will is the problem. Deep down you are saying, "I will not believe!" and so you just don't. You may want to be convinced, but if you do not believe God's word, then there is nothing anyone can teach you, least of all Holy Spirit, who is our ultimate teacher.

Friend, I haven't rejected ANYTHING!

And no, so far, none of the questions have been addressed. As you know.

I THOUGHT maybe your point that there is a unique sound would get us going, but so far.... there seems to be nothing there. You won't give a clip of this sound. And what HAS been entered into the discussion are a plethora of different sounds.

NO, I'm NOT saying "I don't believe." I'm TRYING to discuss WHAT is or is not to be believed.

SURE, of course, I'm willing to accept Scripture. So far, none have been offered to address the 4 questions. I acknowledge, YES - it seems to ME at this point (still waiting to be informed more) that 1) there was SOMETHING in the first century - some phenomenon - that is called "speaking in tongues" mentioned in the Bible, but that per se doesn't tell us what that phenomenon was. 2) Paul does seem to diminish it, speak lesser of it, as you've chosen to point out, and yes that gets to one of my questions - what use is "it" - but we first need to determine what "it" is and is not, so that we are discussing what the Bible is. I'm sure you agree.

Friend, if you don't want to participate in the discussion.... or if you feel you have nothing to contribute... that's FINE. I respect that. There is no rule that all members of CH have to post in every thread. But I DO want to understand this! If you can contribute, I'd appreciate it. If you can't, I respect that.



Thanks!


- Josiah

 

[Full O Beans]

I didn't need to hear a sound clip! I just believed God and asked Him for this gift. As a loving and perfect Father, He gave it.

 

[Josiah]

It would help the discussion if you would tell all what exactly "it" is (and is not). I don't doubt AT ALL that you may believe you have "it." Everyone I've meet who claimed they themself had "it" said they themself had "it" and I think they were being sincere. None have presented ANYTHING to support their own claim for their own self, however. This thread is not about what people claim, it's not about who is or is not sincere, it's about what "it" is. In part, so that we can discuss "it" and know when "it" is or is not.

I'm NOT seeking to know if people FEEL they "have" "it." I think they do. That's a whole other issue that I'm NOT exploring AT ALL. I'm trying to understand what "it" is, for starters. See the opening post.


Thank you.


- Josiah




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[Full O Beans]

It would help the discussion if you would tell all what exactly "it" is (and is not). I don't doubt AT ALL that you may believe you have "it." Everyone I've meet who claimed they themself had "it" said they had "it" and I think they were being sincere. This thread is not about what people claim, it's about what it is. See the opening post.

Take the time to pray and read and consult the scriptures I have given. I don't think you've done that. If you do, then maybe the Lord can get through to you about this beautiful gift.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I'm "convinced" of neither. A long, long, long way away from being "convinced" of EITHER.

Thus, my questions.

It may be interesting to see the development of evidence one way or the other in this thread. Have you any current opinion about the meaning of the Greek for tongue in First Corinthians?

 

[Josiah]

It may be interesting to see the development of evidence one way or the other in this thread. Have you any current opinion about the meaning of the Greek for tongue in First Corinthians?

Well, the word (if I recall) simply means a language. In GREEK, it means a known, spoken, human language. OF course, identifable. It's true - I speak English (and some German and Spanish) so do I specifically "speak in tongues" in THIS sense, in the sense of what Paul and the Book of Acts speak of? But I'm not SURE that is ALWAYS how it is meant in this context. I'd like to explore all that. I'd like to understand all that. I WANT to better understand "it." Whatever "it" was and/or is.


Thank you.


A blessed Lenten season to you and yours


- Josiah

 

[MoreCoffee]

Well, the word (if I recall) simply means a language. In GREEK, it means a known, spoken, human language. OF course, identifable. It's true - I speak English (and some German and Spanish) so do I specifically "speak in tongues" in THIS sense, in the sense of what Paul and the Book of Acts speak of? But I'm not SURE that is ALWAYS how it is meant in this context. I'd like to explore all that. I'd like to understand all that. I WANT to better understand "it." Whatever "it" was and/or is.

Thank you.

A blessed Lenten season to you and yours

Josiah

Do you believe that once you hear the evidence on this side and on that that you will be able to reach a sure and certain conclusion? Many with great minds and deep faith have examined the evidence in the holy scriptures and reached differing conclusions will you be guided by any of them or rely solely on your own conclusions?

 

[Josiah]

Do you believe that once you hear the evidence on this side and on that that you will be able to reach a sure and certain conclusion?

Well... my stated goal is a better understanding. And (of course) I'm doing this publicly because my hope is I'd not be the only one to grow as a result, and because I tend to address issues corporately.

And of course, we've had quite a plethora of discussions of practices not shared by all of late here at CH. Most have been ancient, widespread ones; this is one I think is much newer and smaller and less understood. Well, maybe just by me.

Many with great minds and deep faith have examined the evidence in the holy scriptures and reached differing conclusions will you be guided by any of them or rely solely on your own conclusions?

lol. True - I'm not much of a believer in myself.... I decry the reliance on self (most of all ME)... but again, my goal is just to better understand... move the needle of understanding in my pathetic puny brain a notch or two.... and since I shy away from individualism, I want to do this together.

This may be irrelevant and unhelpful, but this is NOT an issue in which I have any vested interest.... it's just never really come up in my life or in my churches or among good friends (I shared one old example of an exception in the opening post). It's not "emotional" at all to me, one way or the other. That probably helps me in this quest to understand "it" better....



Thank you.


A blessed Lenten Season to you and yours....



- Josiah

 

[MoreCoffee]

Well... my stated goal is a better understanding. And (of course) I'm doing this publicly because my hope is I'd not be the only one to grow as a result, and because I tend to address issues corporately.

And of course, we've had quite a plethora of discussions of practices not shared by all of late here at CH. Most have been ancient, widespread ones; this is one I think is much newer and smaller and less understood. Well, maybe just by me.

lol. True - I'm not much of a believer in myself.... I decry the reliance on self (most of all ME)... but again, my goal is just to better understand... move the needle of understanding in my pathetic puny brain a notch or two.... and since I shy away from individualism, I want to do this together.

This may be irrelevant and unhelpful, but this is NOT an issue in which I have any vested interest.... it's just never really come up in my life or in my churches or among good friends (I shared one old example of an exception in the opening post). It's not "emotional" at all to me, one way or the other. That probably helps me in this quest to understand "it" better....

Thank you.

A blessed Lenten Season to you and yours....
- Josiah

I wish you a good journey and as much wisdom as the folk here in CH can provide.

 

[Josiah]

I wish you a good journey and as much wisdom as the folk here in CH can provide.

Thank you. I hope that includes you!



- Josiah

 

[Alithis]

In a court of law many passages of holy scripture would not be accepted as evidence but that is irrelevant anyway. It is claims made by people today about their alleged gift of a tongue or tongues from God. Clearly the claims made at Azusa street were not substantiated and when they themselves put them to the test the gifted persons failed.

circular.. as what you have said here is also.by that measure unsubstatiated hearsay that would not stand up in a court of law.
but thier testimony..spoken in the lords name will stand in the court of God.

 

[Alithis]

Some sincere questions.....


1. According to the words in the New Testament, what exactly IS this? Do we have an exact definition, description so that we can determine what is and is not "speaking in tongues?" How specifically are we told to recognize what it is and is not? Is there ONE speaking in tongues or endless varieties of this? Is "speaking in tongues" today thought to be the same or different from that mentioned in the Bible?


2. People (sincerely, I believe) claim to "speak in tongues." I've met several. How do we know that what they are doing IS exactly what people where doing 2000 years ago which they called "speaking in tongues?" I'm NOT asking if they are DOING something (they are, IMO).... I'm NOT asking if it's a spiritually moving thing for them (I'm sure it is)..... I'm NOT asking if they are sincere (I'm sure they are), I'm asking how do we KNOW - from the verbatim words found in the NT - that what they are doing IS specifically "speaking in tongues" as the NT speaks of it?


3. When I was a teen, a good friend of mine had a mother who was a self-proclaimed and self-ordained Apostle, Prophet, Bishop, Faith Healer and Pastor. She also claimed she had numerous gifts - including speaking in tongues and interpretation thereof. (BTW, I was still on her email list as of a year or so ago.... I got regular updates on revelations she got directly from God; always quite interesting: another matter for another thread). I asked her daughter these two questions and she had no reply, but when she asked me if I speak in tongues, I told her I'm not sure I have any way to know. She told me to say a sentence. "Praise precious Jesus Prince of Peace." Say it with my heart and my mouth. Fast. Faster. Faster still! And if I did - with all my heart..... with great speed.... the Holy Spirit would fall upon me and would give me the Gift of Tongues and I'd just KNOW that I have it. I tried it. It was very hard to do without stumbling - and eventually, that's what I did. Was I speaking in tongues? How do I know? How do you know?


4. What is it's purpose in the church? According to the Bible and/or proponents?



Thanks!!!!



- Josiah

number is 4 questions ..i will "try " to address them objectively .
1.a. According to the words in the New Testament, what exactly IS this? tongues .is simply .. other languages . Paul states he spoke in both the tongues of men and the tongues of angels -how he knew this he does not say .

1.b. Do we have an exact definition, description so that we can determine what is and is not "speaking in tongues?" not specifically that i know of

1.c.How specifically are we told to recognize what it is and is not? it is judged by the same measure we use to judge which spirit is speaking as far as i understand- A spirit which denies christ came in the flesh -is not of god ..that sort of thing (covered in the gift of discernment)

continued ..

1.d. Is there ONE speaking in tongues or endless varieties of this?- Tongues are as varied in the spirit as they are upon the earth and since the include the languages of angels i would say even more varied .

1.e. Is "speaking in tongues" today thought to be the same or different from that mentioned in the Bible?- the same . later it is clarified from pauls letters that not "all" occurrences of tongues are in a language understood by the hearer ,ie- they required interpretation (- note the word translation is not used in regard to tongues -only interpretation- not sure how much that point plays a part ).

that simplistically covers Question number ONE from the OP .

 

[Josiah]

number is 4 questions ..i will "try " to address them objectively .
1.a. According to the words in the New Testament, what exactly IS this? tongues .is simply .. other languages . Paul states he spoke in both the tongues of men and the tongues of angels -how he knew this he does not say .

WHAT other languages? Is my speaking English another language? When I speak German or Spanish (neither do I speak well, I confess)?

1.b. Do we have an exact definition, description so that we can determine what is and is not "speaking in tongues?" not specifically that i know of

Any idea then how we know what "it" was and/or is and what "it" was/is not? Any idea on how we can discuss and/or evaluate "it" if we can't know what "it" is?

1.c.How specifically are we told to recognize what it is and is not? it is judged by the same measure we use to judge which spirit is speaking as far as i understand- A spirit which denies chrsit came in the flesh -is not of god ..that sort of thing

Consider the above link to Lonnie, who claims that he is doing "it." I think you confirmed that that sound IS "it." He recorded the distinctive sound for us and provided a sound clip. Listening to that, how can we know if that sound denies Christ came in the flesh or that Jesus not to be called specifically "GOD?" As you listened to that sound.... knowing that sound IS "it" - how did you determine that the sound did NOT deny God came in the flesh and that Jesus should be called "GOD?"

to be continued

Thanks!





- Josiah

 

[Alithis]

WHAT other languages? Is my speaking English another language? When I speak German or Spanish (neither do I speak well, I confess)?






Any idea then how we know what "it" was and/or is and what "it" was/is not? Any idea on how we can discuss and/or evaluate "it" if we can't know what "it" is?






Consider the above link to Lonnie, who claims that he is doing "it." I think you confirmed that that sound IS "it." He recorded the distinctive sound for us and provided a sound clip. Listening to that, how can we know if that sound denies Christ came in the flesh or that Jesus not to be called specifically "GOD?" As you listened to that sound.... knowing that sound IS "it" - how did you determine that the sound did NOT deny God came in the flesh and that Jesus should be called "GOD?"







Thanks!





- Josiah

to be honest ..the next questions are coming a bit fast .. and i am not keen to answer them too quickly with what we call pat or standard answers .
i speak in tongues by the utterance of the holy spirit since i was baptised in the Holy Spirit almost 30 years ago ..but that does not make me an expert on the topic -so i dont want to answer without careful consideration or overlay my carnal reasoning over the top .
so forgive me if i just choose one small piece at a time and address "that"

Q -WHAT other languages? Is my speaking English another language? When I speak German or Spanish (neither do I speak well, I confess)?

no its not just speaking a "learned " language -of that i can speak with certainty and base it on Acts chapter two .. We do the moving of the mouth we allow willingly the work of the ability of the holy Spirit through us , we have the will to close our mouth and remain silent-but when we open our mouth because the Holy Spirit within rises up like water flooding up and outwards and begins to manifest outwardly the language that proceeds outwards is not of our choosing nor ability nor learning .

i understand the "mormons" teach such things and imply that the bible gift og tongues is the ability to "learn " another language -so they say people gifted at learning another language have the "gift of tongues " but of course that is not so as we observe from the book of acts - what transpired was immediate and powerful (and very very nosiey lol )

there is so much i can add to each reply but i want to keep it direct and simply related to each specific question and let you put the pieces together in your own heart because there is great blessing upon you for seeking about these things -i know from my own life that there is little (other then faith) that pleases god More when we seek the things of HIM from above .


add; havent checked the link yet ..wil do so


add -have now done so - sure it sounds like he is speaking a language as we would call tongues .
but seeking the truth of this matter is best done with a bible and a prayer closet - there is nothing the devil would like more then to distract you with everything opposed to the word of god that he possibly can throw at you .
thats why i also do not want to answer your questions from my "carnal" understanding ..but from the world of God .

firstly the promise - jesus said one of the signs that wil folow those who beleive is - "they will speak in other tongues " so lets remove any niggling doubts as to it being the will of God the Lord jesus said it's going to happen . let that settle in our hearts and be established there for his word is absolute truth .

to be continued

 

[MoreCoffee]

circular.. as what you have said here is also.by that measure unsubstantiated hearsay that would not stand up in a court of law but their testimony..spoken in the lords name will stand in the court of God.

Hearsay is when person X says that person Y said such and such about event E. Person X is not a witness or participant in event E. Person X merely says that Person Y said such and such about E. That is quite different from the case mentioned in my post. In the case related in my post it is Person Y who says that event E failed and person Y is a participant in event E. Specifically members of the Azusa Street Mission reported their own failure to communicate in the foreign languages used in the foreign lands to which they were sent.

 

[Alithis]

off topic distracting sidelines aren't going to be helpful.
i intend to answer alll the op's questions as honestly as i can from the direct word of God.
and where i cannot do so i will offer opinion from life experience.and state that it is merely my opinion.

 

[tango]

Coming a bit late to the party, but some thoughts anyway...

Some sincere questions.....

1. According to the words in the New Testament, what exactly IS this? Do we have an exact definition, description so that we can determine what is and is not "speaking in tongues?" How specifically are we told to recognize what it is and is not? Is there ONE speaking in tongues or endless varieties of this? Is "speaking in tongues" today thought to be the same or different from that mentioned in the Bible?

In Acts chapter 2 we see the Holy Spirit descending and people speaking with other tongues (2:4). We can see that the tongues were known human languages as people from all around heard their own language (2:6-11). The gift of tongues served a specific purpose here.

Today, aside from having a gift of discernment (which is perhaps a topic for another thread) I'm not sure there is some way of determining whether someone is speaking in tongues or uttering gibberish. Anyone can whisper shundai, kushanda and sound like they are speaking in tongues. On the other hand if someone present recognises the language and can verify its meaning that's a good sign that the tongues are genuine.

Years ago I heard a guy I knew praying in tongues, and I remember hearing one specific word repeatedly (it's not the only time that happened, I picked out the term for "God" in another language when hearing a native speaker of it praying as it occurred many times). Recently I was reading a Hebrew dictionary and suddenly realised that one of the words I was looking at matched the sound this guy had been making when praying. I don't think he knew Hebrew (I could be wrong), but on knowing him and seeing that (admittedly not court-proof evidence) I was satisfied that he was praying in Hebrew.

There's some disagreement over the meaning of 1Co 13:1 where Paul writes of speaking in the tongues of men and angels. Some say it means "I speak in the tongues of men and angels but if I have no love it means nothing" while others say it means "If I speak in the tongues of men, and even if I speak in the tongues of angels, it would be worthless if I have no love". The latter is critically different because it's equivalent to "even if I could leap the tallest buildings it would be for nothing" as opposed to "I can leap tall buildings but..."

2. People (sincerely, I believe) claim to "speak in tongues." I've met several. How do we know that what they are doing IS exactly what people where doing 2000 years ago which they called "speaking in tongues?" I'm NOT asking if they are DOING something (they are, IMO).... I'm NOT asking if it's a spiritually moving thing for them (I'm sure it is)..... I'm NOT asking if they are sincere (I'm sure they are), I'm asking how do we KNOW - from the verbatim words found in the NT - that what they are doing IS specifically "speaking in tongues" as the NT speaks of it?

Short of recognising the language I don't think there is a foolproof way we can verify that the sounds they are making are useful, any more than someone describing their dream or vision can be exhaustively tested. The difference with a dream or vision is that it can be considered for meaning and any meaning considered can be tested against the known word of God. If someone is uttering a load of sounds that make no sense it's all but impossible to know for sure whether they are speaking in tongues by the power of the Holy Spirit, speaking in tongues by the power of demons, speaking a language they naturally know, or making up a load of gibberish.

3. When I was a teen, a good friend of mine had a mother who was a self-proclaimed and self-ordained Apostle, Prophet, Bishop, Faith Healer and Pastor. She also claimed she had numerous gifts - including speaking in tongues and interpretation thereof. (BTW, I was still on her email list as of a year or so ago.... I got regular updates on revelations she got directly from God; always quite interesting: another matter for another thread). I asked her daughter these two questions and she had no reply, but when she asked me if I speak in tongues, I told her I'm not sure I have any way to know. She told me to say a sentence. "Praise precious Jesus Prince of Peace." Say it with my heart and my mouth. Fast. Faster. Faster still! And if I did - with all my heart..... with great speed.... the Holy Spirit would fall upon me and would give me the Gift of Tongues and I'd just KNOW that I have it. I tried it. It was very hard to do without stumbling - and eventually, that's what I did. Was I speaking in tongues? How do I know? How do you know?

Honestly, this kind of thing makes it easier for people to ridicule speaking in tongues. The Holy Spirit isn't an option in a cosmic vending machine where you press the right buttons, pull the lever, and you get the gift of tongues. Paul is clear in 1Co 12:30 that not everybody will speak in tongues. There are many gifts that are given as the Spirit decides (1Co 12:4).

4. What is it's purpose in the church? According to the Bible and/or proponents?

Aside from being misused in some quarters to prove a higher degree of spirituality (I've read at least one author who seems to believe that unless you speak in tongues you don't have the Holy Spirit at all, and if you don't speak in tongues you can't possibly have any other gifts. Maybe Paul got it wrong...), it does have purposes.

I've come across a few cases (that posted on a forum are little more than hearsay, but I trust the people enough to believe their stories are true) where people have prayed for someone in English only for that person to "know they were OK" because "they spoke such beautiful (language)". The person concerned prayed in English because they didn't speak the other person's language, but the other person heard their own language. I was personally once in a situation where someone prayed and I heard gibberish but the person next to me (who I trust pretty much without limit) heard English.

Looking purely at Biblical expressions of its purpose, they may be used in public in church but they must be interpreted (1Co 14:27) and if no interpretation is forthcoming the person should be silent in church (1Co 14:28). Aside from the situation where no interpretation is forthcoming, Paul also writes that speaking in tongues should not be forbidden (1Co 14:39).

The person speaking in tongues edifies himself (1Co 14:4) although it seems reasonable to assume that when spoken out and duly interpreted it can edify the church.

In 1Co 14:22 Paul writes that tongues are a sign to unbelievers. For a sign to be useful to unbelievers the unbelievers in question would have to hear a language they understood - a roomful of people mumbling a load of unintelligible gibberish wouldn't be much of a sign to anyone. So that further confirms the validity of their use when speaking to those who do not believe, if the tongues in question are human languages understood by the listener.

Romans 8:26 refers to "groanings which cannot be uttered". Some say this is a reference to other tongues, although personally I find it hard to see how something with cannot be uttered can refer to speaking another language.


One belief I consider to be damaging is the notion that tongues are the only valid evidence of the Holy Spirit. In Acts 2 we see the disciples speaking in other languages as they received the Spirit, and likewise in Acts 19:6 Paul laid hands on people and they received the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues and prophesied. But to insist that because God worked in that particular way then means he can only work in that way now seems excessively restrictive, especially in the light of what Paul wrote in 1Co 12:29-30 that basically says not everybody has every gift. So on that basis I'd say that tongues may be a valid expression of the presence of the Holy Spirit but a lack of tongues doesn't mean a lack of the Spirit. Jesus said we would know people by their fruits, not by their gifts.

 

[Alithis]

Some sincere questions.....


1. According to the words in the New Testament, what exactly IS this? Do we have an exact definition, description so that we can determine what is and is not "speaking in tongues?" How specifically are we told to recognize what it is and is not? Is there ONE speaking in tongues or endless varieties of this? Is "speaking in tongues" today thought to be the same or different from that mentioned in the Bible?


2. People (sincerely, I believe) claim to "speak in tongues." I've met several. How do we know that what they are doing IS exactly what people where doing 2000 years ago which they called "speaking in tongues?" I'm NOT asking if they are DOING something (they are, IMO).... I'm NOT asking if it's a spiritually moving thing for them (I'm sure it is)..... I'm NOT asking if they are sincere (I'm sure they are), I'm asking how do we KNOW - from the verbatim words found in the NT - that what they are doing IS specifically "speaking in tongues" as the NT speaks of it?


3. When I was a teen, a good friend of mine had a mother who was a self-proclaimed and self-ordained Apostle, Prophet, Bishop, Faith Healer and Pastor. She also claimed she had numerous gifts - including speaking in tongues and interpretation thereof. (BTW, I was still on her email list as of a year or so ago.... I got regular updates on revelations she got directly from God; always quite interesting: another matter for another thread). I asked her daughter these two questions and she had no reply, but when she asked me if I speak in tongues, I told her I'm not sure I have any way to know. She told me to say a sentence. "Praise precious Jesus Prince of Peace." Say it with my heart and my mouth. Fast. Faster. Faster still! And if I did - with all my heart..... with great speed.... the Holy Spirit would fall upon me and would give me the Gift of Tongues and I'd just KNOW that I have it. I tried it. It was very hard to do without stumbling - and eventually, that's what I did. Was I speaking in tongues? How do I know? How do you know?


4. What is it's purpose in the church? According to the Bible and/or proponents?



Thanks!!!!



- Josiah

Questions number 1 is 4 questions ..i will "try " to address each part them objectively .


1.a. According to the words in the New Testament, what exactly IS this? tongues .is simply .. other languages . Paul states he spoke in both the tongues of men and the tongues of angels -how he knew this he does not say .

1.b. Do we have an exact definition, description so that we can determine what is and is not "speaking in tongues?" not specifically that i know of - "another tongue (language ) is usually defined by the fact that we do not understand what is being spoken to us therefore they are speaking in an unknown language (tongue )

1.c.How specifically are we told to recognize what it is and is not? it is judged by the same measure we use to judge which spirit is speaking as far as i understand- A spirit which denies christ came in the flesh -is not of god ..that sort of thing (covered in the gift of discernment)

continued ..

1.d. Is there ONE speaking in tongues or endless varieties of this?- Tongues are as varied in the spirit as they are upon the earth and since the include the languages of angels i would say even more varied .

1.e. Is "speaking in tongues" today thought to be the same or different from that mentioned in the Bible?- the same . later it is clarified from pauls letters that not "all" occurrences of tongues are in a language understood by the hearer ,ie- they required interpretation (- note the word translation is not used in regard to tongues -only interpretation- not sure how much that point plays a part ).

that simplistically covers Question number ONE from the OP .