"Speaking in Tongues"

[Full O Beans]

So far, we've had one person who insists that "this" provides a "distinct" sound (unlike any other) that is immediately evident as "this" among all.

If that's true, as one has insisted, then it would be a GREAT starting point in our discussion to just provide the sound clip of that "distinctive" sound that is immediately evident to all as "this."

Do you have a link to that sound clip? I'll "google" it - maybe I can find it.



Thank you!


- Josiah

Ask Holy Spirit to teach you about His baptism, and to fill you.

 

[Josiah]

It manifests with a distinct sound, a clear call, evident to everyone in the whole Body


.

Found it. Lonnie Mackley provides the sound clip for us.

https://us.search.yahoo.com/yhs/sea...s+10+Home&p=sound+clip+of+speaking+in+tongues

You need to advance 7 1/2 minutes through this video until we hear the "distinctive sound" that is "evident to all" as speaking in tongues.



Questions:

1. Do you agree this is a "distinct sound?" Unlike any other?

2. Do all agree THAT "distinctive sound" IS specifically, uniquely "speaking in tongues?" Precisely the "distinctive sound" of which the Bible speaks?

2. Is it immediately evident to the whole body of believers as "speaking in tongues?"




Thanks!


- Josiah




.

 

[Brighten04]

I got sent to a whole bunch of search options when I clicked on your link, which option am I to listen to?

 

[Josiah]

I got sent to a whole bunch of search options when I clicked on your link, which option am I to listen to?

Oops. I just clicked on the first utube, the one where Lonnie Mackley provides the sound clip that Full O Beans was hesitant to provide. The video is 9 minutes long, but the first 7.5 minutes is speaking English. Again, you have you skip the first 7 1/2 minutes of his NOT providing the distictive sound, but he gets around to it. Since it is distinctive, I saw no reason to check out the others - they'd all be exactly the same.


I've really appreciate having your responses to the questions.





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[Brighten04]

Did you watch the video I posted? I think that one explains it really well.

 

[Josiah]

Did you watch the video I posted? I think that one explains it really well.

Yes. I admit, I chose to pass over it since it so completely contradicted Full O Bean's point, and simply seemed to complicate the question. Not only be giving a plethora of DIFFERENT sounds (no one distinctive sound that is so central to Full O Beans point) AND revealed that none of those sound is immediately evident to all Christians as "this."

I chose to give ONE example of ONE sound that Full O Beans seemed unwilling to give. It would help if we could all agree on ONE 'distinctive' sound (as Full O Beans so stressed) - ONE sound. THAT is "it." Then, if we could all agree on that specific sound, then we get to Full O Beans second emphasis - ALL Christians recognize it as such. Follow me?

Listen to Lonnie's sound clip. Then, if you desire, answer the questions I asked about it in post # 22. Maybe this will advance the discussion. I hope so!


Thanks!

OPENING POST:



Some sincere questions.....


1. According to the words in the New Testament, what exactly IS this? Do we have an exact definition, description so that we can determine what is and is not "speaking in tongues?" How specifically are we told to recognize what it is and is not? Is there ONE speaking in tongues or endless varieties of this? Is "speaking in tongues" today thought to be the same or different from that mentioned in the Bible?


2. People (sincerely, I believe) claim to "speak in tongues." I've met several. How do we know that what they are doing IS exactly what people where doing 2000 years ago which they called "speaking in tongues?" I'm NOT asking if they are DOING something (they are, IMO).... I'm NOT asking if it's a spiritually moving thing for them (I'm sure it is)..... I'm NOT asking if they are sincere (I'm sure they are), I'm asking how do we KNOW - from the verbatim words found in the NT
- that what they are doing IS specifically "speaking in tongues" as the NT
speaks of it?


3. When I was a teen, a good friend of mine had a mother who was a self-proclaimed and self-ordained Apostle, Prophet, Bishop, Faith Healer and Pastor. She also claimed she had numerous gifts - including speaking in tongues and interpretation thereof. (BTW, I was still on her email list as of a year or so ago.... I got regular updates on revelations she got directly from God; always quite interesting: another matter for another thread). I asked her daughter these two questions and she had no reply, but when she asked me if I speak in tongues, I told her I'm not sure I have any way to know. She told me to say a sentence. "Praise precious Jesus Prince of Peace." Say it with my heart and my mouth. Fast. Faster. Faster still! And if I did - with all my heart..... with great speed.... the Holy Spirit would fall upon me and would give me the Gift of Tongues and I'd just KNOW that I have it. I tried it. It was very hard to do without stumbling - and eventually, that's what I did. Was I speaking in tongues? How do I know? How do you know?


4. What is it's purpose in the church? According to the Bible and/or proponents?



.

- Josiah

 

[Brighten04]

Why these questions? Are you seeking to speak in tongues yourself? If not, i see no need to try to explain this to you. Really FullOBeans gave you from scripture all you need to understand about speaking in tongues. The Holy Spirit will teach you more than we can.

 

[Josiah]

Why these questions? Are you seeking to speak in tongues yourself?

I'm trying to understand it. Is there a reason I shouldn't?


Here is the opening post:

Some sincere questions.....


1. According to the words in the New Testament, what exactly IS this? Do we have an exact definition, description so that we can determine what is and is not "speaking in tongues?" How specifically are we told to recognize what it is and is not? Is there ONE speaking in tongues or endless varieties of this? Is "speaking in tongues" today thought to be the same or different from that mentioned in the Bible?


2. People (sincerely, I believe) claim to "speak in tongues." I've met several. How do we know that what they are doing IS exactly what people where doing 2000 years ago which they called "speaking in tongues?" I'm NOT asking if they are DOING something (they are, IMO).... I'm NOT asking if it's a spiritually moving thing for them (I'm sure it is)..... I'm NOT asking if they are sincere (I'm sure they are), I'm asking how do we KNOW - from the verbatim words found in the NT - that what they are doing IS specifically "speaking in tongues" as the NT speaks of it?


3. When I was a teen, a good friend of mine had a mother who was a self-proclaimed and self-ordained Apostle, Prophet, Bishop, Faith Healer and Pastor. She also claimed she had numerous gifts - including speaking in tongues and interpretation thereof. (BTW, I was still on her email list as of a year or so ago.... I got regular updates on revelations she got directly from God; always quite interesting: another matter for another thread). I asked her daughter these two questions and she had no reply, but when she asked me if I speak in tongues, I told her I'm not sure I have any way to know. She told me to say a sentence. "Praise precious Jesus Prince of Peace." Say it with my heart and my mouth. Fast. Faster. Faster still! And if I did - with all my heart..... with great speed.... the Holy Spirit would fall upon me and would give me the Gift of Tongues and I'd just KNOW that I have it. I tried it. It was very hard to do without stumbling - and eventually, that's what I did. Was I speaking in tongues? How do I know? How do you know?


4. What is it's purpose in the church? According to the Bible and/or proponents?



Thanks!!!!

Several question marks there. I guess we could now add one: Is precisely what Lonnie voicing in that video The DISTINCTIVE sound, THAT is what "it" is? Do all agree? AND then, is THAT recognized by all as precisely "Speaking in Tongues" as some did as recorded in the NT, that's the distinctive sound (unique) that IS and WAS "speaking in tongues" which all Christians acknowledge? Or is there some other sound (such as the several in the video you provided)? Or maybe you want to skip all that and just go back to the questions I asked.



I'd be pleased if you contribute to this discussion, but that's up to you.



Thanks!



- Josiah

 

[Brighten04]

I'm trying to understand it. Is there a reason I shouldn't?


Here is the opening post:





I'd be pleased if you contribute to this discussion, but that's up to you.



Thanks!



- Josiah

OK, I will take that as a dismissal. I see no need to answer questions you already have Your answers to. Enjoy your argument.

 

[Josiah]

OK, I will take that as a dismissal. I see no need to answer questions you already have Your answers to. Enjoy your argument.

I have no answers to any of the questions. Which is why I asked them.

If you don't want to participate (as you seemed to suggest twice before), that's fine! I respect that (although I thrice indicated my hope that you would). And of course, you have no "need" to post in any thread at CH. But friend, I didn't dismiss you. Obviously.



- Josiah

 

[Stravinsk]

Always thought (even when I believed all the Bible to be inspired) that what is commonly known as speaking in tongues was at the least seriously odd. At one place I used to attend, during worship, someone broke out in "tongues" - utterances unintelligible to me, and then the pastor's wife "interpreted". The interpretation went something along these lines:

"I am here with you"
"You are my chosen people"
"This is my chosen church"
"I love you"

Mmm hmm. With that kind of endorsement, I'm sure no one would be thinking about leaving that particular flock!

At another church, again during worship, someone broke out in "tongues" and in the uncomfortable silence that followed one could hear a penny drop. No interp, just a break in the worship with some gibberish that no one seemed to understand.

Even though I do not believe the story is legit, an in context reading of the first NT case of this in Acts lends itself to understanding that the people were actually speaking in known languages, and were being understood by other people who did not have knowledge of those languages.

I notice there are tutorials on *how* to speak in tongues on youtube. Interesting.

One of the ironies of some who proclaim the evils of division among believers is that the doctrine that "tongues are a sign", which I so often see as an advertisement for pentacostal type churches is actually very divisive in itself. It's a way for certain Christians to compare themselves to other Christians and make a certain distinction:

" Tongues are a sign. I speak in tongues. I have the holy spirit. You do not. Neener neener. I'm one of God's chosen ones. I'm legit. " ointing:

Love in action, right? :wink: I've seen this attitude and the fruit of it on more than one occasion.

 

[Full O Beans]

Found it. Lonnie Mackley provides the sound clip for us.

https://us.search.yahoo.com/yhs/sea...s+10+Home&p=sound+clip+of+speaking+in+tongues

You need to advance 7 1/2 minutes through this video until we hear the "distinctive sound" that is "evident to all" as speaking in tongues.



Questions:

1. Do you agree this is a "distinct sound?" Unlike any other?

2. Do all agree THAT "distinctive sound" IS specifically, uniquely "speaking in tongues?" Precisely the "distinctive sound" of which the Bible speaks?

2. Is it immediately evident to the whole body of believers as "speaking in tongues?"




Thanks!


- Josiah




.

Yes, this man is bona fide praying in the Spirit.

 

[Full O Beans]

Yes. I admit, I chose to pass over it since it so completely contradicted Full O Bean's point, and simply seemed to complicate the question. Not only be giving a plethora of DIFFERENT sounds (no one distinctive sound that is so central to Full O Beans point) AND revealed that none of those sound is immediately evident to all Christians as "this."

I chose to give ONE example of ONE sound that Full O Beans seemed unwilling to give. It would help if we could all agree on ONE 'distinctive' sound (as Full O Beans so stressed) - ONE sound. THAT is "it." Then, if we could all agree on that specific sound, then we get to Full O Beans second emphasis - ALL Christians recognize it as such. Follow me?

Listen to Lonnie's sound clip. Then, if you desire, answer the questions I asked about it in post # 22. Maybe this will advance the discussion. I hope so!


Thanks!










- Josiah

Nothing in that first video contradicted anything I have presented.

 

[Josiah]

Yes, this man is bona fide praying in the Spirit.

Is "praying in the Spirit" speaking in tongues?

Is THIS then the DISTINCTIVE sound that IS what was and is precisely "speaking in tongues?"

Does the whole body of believers recongize THIS as precisely "speaking in tongues?"

 

[Josiah]

Nothing in that first video contradicted anything I have presented.

In MY opinion, it contradicted everything you said. First of all, there was not one sound but a whole plethora of DIFFERENT sounds - no one distinctive sound. EVERY example was a DIFFERENT sound. And it seems to me there was not one case where the whole body of believers acknowledge each of these different sounds as "speaking in tongues." Indeed, the whole point of the video is that this whatever seems to NOT be seen by all believers as such.

Which was yet another reason for me to ask you for a sound clip of the distinctive sound - unique among all sounds - that you claim IS "this." You wouldn't, so I found one on the net. Of course, it's a different sound than any in the video that our friend offered - but at least it's ONE sound.

Now, you claim THAT is the DISTINCTIVE sound.... I don't know if you claim that is "speaking in tongues" (the issue of this thread... and what you said is "the distinctive sound that the whole body of believers recognizes as specifically Speaking in Tongues), but YOU seem to be acknowledging Lonnie as doing.... something.... "bona"

IF that IS "the distinctive sound" of "speaking in tongues" .... and IF that is precisely the sound that those made in the first century (we still need to get to that).... then we're to your second point: The whole body of believers KNOWS it. That THAT is The Distinctive (unique) sound.



Thanks!


- Josiah

 

[Full O Beans]

Praying in the Spirit is praying in tongues.

Look at 1 Corinthians 14:14 and also the compelling 1 Corinthians 14:15 for your desire for distinction.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Seems to me that threads about tongues go around and around in circles because those who believe they speak in tongues are convinced that their practise is what the bible teaches about while those who do not or who used to but no longer do are convinced otherwise.

 

[Full O Beans]

In MY opinion, it contradicted everything you said. First of all, there was not one sound but a whole plethora of DIFFERENT sounds - no one distinctive sound. And it seems to me there was not one case where the whole body of believers acknowledge each of these different sounds as "speaking in tongues." Indeed, the whole point of the video is that this whatever seems to NOT be seen by all believers as such.

Which was yet another reason for me to ask you for a sound clip of the distinctive sound - unique among all sounds - that you claim IS "this." You wouldn't, so I found one on the net. Of course, it's a different sound than any in the video that our friend offered - but at least it's ONE sound.

Now, you claim THAT is the DISTINCTIVE sound.... I don't know if you claim that is "speaking in tongues" (the issue of this thread... and what you said is "the distinctive sound that the whole body of believers recognizes as specifically Speaking in Tongues), but YOU seem to be acknowledging Lonnie as doing.... something.... "bona"

IF that IS "the distinctive sound" of "speaking in tongues" .... and IF that is precisely the sound that those made in the first century (we still need to get to that).... then we're to your second point: The whole body of believers KNOWS it. That THAT is The Distinctive (unique) sound.



Thanks!


- Josiah

Please expand on your "plethora of DIFFERENT sounds" idea.

 

[Josiah]

Please expand on your "plethora of DIFFERENT sounds" idea.

Listen to the video that our friend presented. There are SEVERAL examples of "praying in Tongues" or "Prayer Language" or whatever. They are not distinctive, every case sounds different from the others. And different from Lonnie's in the video I presented. You stressed that it is a DISTINCTIVE, unique sound.... A sound.... one sound.... unique in human utterences..... unique among sounds...... ONE. Well.... leaving our friends video in the discussion means we now have to decide WHICH of these many sounds IS "the distinctive, unique sound" (not .... soundS). I chose to keep it simple and just see if there could be an agreement on ONE sound. Maybe not.

But say all do. Lonnie's SOUND is the one, unique, distinctive sound among all sounds in the universe that IS "speaking in tongues" or "prayer language" or whatever. THAT'S it. If all agreed - that would be a huge step forward! THEN we could address whether THAT sound is exactly what Paul is talking about in the NT, and your point that the whole body of believers immediately acknowledges THAT sound as specifically "it."

Look at 1 Corinthians 14:14 and also the compelling 1 Corinthians 14:15 for your desire for distinction.

Yes, both of those verses seem to speak rather lowly of "it." But neither tells us what "it" is. And neither says that "it" is a singular, distinctive, unique sound not heard otherwise in the universe that is immediately acknowledged and recognized by all believers as "it."

I appreciate the verses, I really do, they just don't seem related to your points and don't seem to be addressing any of the questions of the opening post. But yes, I think it likely that 1) Paul acknowledges that "it" existed, at least then. 2) Paul seems to diminish it (but that doesn't mean "it" didn't exist or have value in some way).



Thank you!


- Josiah

 

[Josiah]

Always thought (even when I believed all the Bible to be inspired) that what is commonly known as speaking in tongues was at the least seriously odd. At one place I used to attend, during worship, someone broke out in "tongues" - utterances unintelligible to me, and then the pastor's wife "interpreted". The interpretation went something along these lines:

"I am here with you"
"You are my chosen people"
"This is my chosen church"
"I love you"

Mmm hmm. With that kind of endorsement, I'm sure no one would be thinking about leaving that particular flock!

At another church, again during worship, someone broke out in "tongues" and in the uncomfortable silence that followed one could hear a penny drop. No interp, just a break in the worship with some gibberish that no one seemed to understand.

Even though I do not believe the story is legit, an in context reading of the first NT case of this in Acts lends itself to understanding that the people were actually speaking in known languages, and were being understood by other people who did not have knowledge of those languages.

I notice there are tutorials on *how* to speak in tongues on youtube. Interesting.

One of the ironies of some who proclaim the evils of division among believers is that the doctrine that "tongues are a sign", which I so often see as an advertisement for pentacostal type churches is actually very divisive in itself. It's a way for certain Christians to compare themselves to other Christians and make a certain distinction:

" Tongues are a sign. I speak in tongues. I have the holy spirit. You do not. Neener neener. I'm one of God's chosen ones. I'm legit. " ointing:

Love in action, right? :wink: I've seen this attitude and the fruit of it on more than one occasion.

Thank you for your contribution.


I too have heard what at least one (the speaker) has claim is "this."

ONE of my hopes is that we'll come to some way to know whether what was heard IS "speaking in tongues" (especially, is what PAUL specifically was referring to). Just trying to understand what "it" is - and is not.

I notice there are tutorials on *how* to speak in tongues on youtube. Interesting.

THAT of course gets to ONE of my questions (# 3). I've been taught HOW to do "it" - but never what "it" is, so how can any know if I'm doing or not doing "it"? I DID say the sentence..... often and fast..... and I WAS told ergo I would speak in "Tongues" so did I? Could I tape my sounds and compare them to Lonnie's video (I provided the link) and see if it's the SAME sound and know? Or would that not be helpful and certainly not definitive? If not, what would be?




Thanks again.



- Josiah