Justified by works ...

MoreCoffee

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Consider the case, my brothers, of someone who says he has faith but he does not have works? That faith cannot save him, can it? If a brother or a sister is lacking clothing and enough food for the day, yet one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but you do not give them what they need for their body, of what good is that? So, too, faith by itself, without works, is dead.

This is how to answer people of that kind: “You say you have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith without works. I will show you my faith by my works.” You believe that there is one God? That's commendable. And yet the demons believe the same thing and shudder. But do you care to know, you senseless man, that faith without works is useless? You surely know that Abraham our father was justified by his works after he offered up Isaac his son on the altar? There you have it, faith and works were working together; his faith was perfected by his works, and the scripture was fulfilled that says: “Abraham put faith in the Lord and it was counted to him as righteousness”, and he came to be called the Lord’s friend. You see now that a man is justified by doing good works and not by faith alone. In the same manner, wasn't Raʹhab the prostitute justified by her good works after she received the messengers hospitably and sent them out by another way? A body dies when it is separated from the spirit, in the same way faith without works is dead. (James 2:14-26)

The way of justification may not be the legal declaration that some think it to be because saint James clearly teaches that being justified is not merely a matter of a legal declaration that one is just one must also work the kind of works that justice demands.
 

psalms 91

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Consider the case, my brothers, of someone who says he has faith but he does not have works? That faith cannot save him, can it? If a brother or a sister is lacking clothing and enough food for the day, yet one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but you do not give them what they need for their body, of what good is that? So, too, faith by itself, without works, is dead.

This is how to answer people of that kind: “You say you have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith without works. I will show you my faith by my works.” You believe that there is one God? That's commendable. And yet the demons believe the same thing and shudder. But do you care to know, you senseless man, that faith without works is useless? You surely know that Abraham our father was justified by his works after he offered up Isaac his son on the altar? There you have it, faith and works were working together; his faith was perfected by his works, and the scripture was fulfilled that says: “Abraham put faith in the Lord and it was counted to him as righteousness”, and he came to be called the Lord’s friend. You see now that a man is justified by doing good works and not by faith alone. In the same manner, wasn't Raʹhab the prostitute justified by her good works after she received the messengers hospitably and sent them out by another way? A body dies when it is separated from the spirit, in the same way faith without works is dead. (James 2:14-26)

The way of justification may not be the legal declaration that some think it to be because saint James clearly teaches that being justified is not merely a matter of a legal declaration that one is just one must also work the kind of works that justice demands.
If Christ is in you and you are in Christ those works come naturally, as children of God we can do nothing else for as your Father is so will you be
 

MoreCoffee

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If Christ is in you and you are in Christ those works come naturally, as children of God we can do nothing else for as your Father is so will you be

Yes, for the faithful good works are like breathing is for a living person. Yet one cannot be justified without them just as one cannot live without breathing.
 

Brighten04

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Yes, for the faithful good works are like breathing is for a living person. Yet one cannot be justified without them just as one cannot live without breathing.

Romans 5:1
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Romans 8:30
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

We are NOT justified by works. If that was so then Lord Jesus suffered, bled, and died for no reason.
 

Josiah

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I believe that Jesus is THE Savior. Thus, Jesus does the saving.

I believe justification is the sole result of JESUS' works: HIS works. HIS righteousness. HIS love. HIS perfect life. HIS sacrificial death. HIS resurrection. JESUS is the Savior. Ergo, I'm not (the job is taken - before I was even born).

At NO point does you or me usurp Jesus - rendering Jesus a joke, a mistake. Rendering Him no longer THE Savior. His life meaningless.... His blood worthless.... His resurrection pointless.
At NO point does you or me become the cause of Justification - in whole or in part. Not now, not ever.
JESUS provides the justification. ALWAYS. UNIQUELY.

Those who usurp Jesus.... those who insist that THEY actually do the thing that means they go to heaven.... are making SELF the Savior and making Jesus a joke. They are ripping out the very central point and belief of Christianity, returning to Judaism.


John 3:16, "For God so loved the world (Sola Gratia) that HE gave His only begotten Son (Solus Christus) that whosoever believes in HIM (Sola Fide) will not perish but has everlasting life."


In theology, there is a distinction between JUSTIFICATION (becoming His own, the new relationship, the reality that means we are heaven bound) with SANCTIFICATION (living as His own, becoming Christ-like, growing in Him, Great Commandment). A distinction between Gospel and Law. God and self. A helpful comparison is to think of our birth (a GIFT, the result of OTHERS) and our growing up (what WE do, directed and empowered). A problem comes when these are confused.... then TRUE things are just dumped into a blender (along with oceans of water to water both down), then "high" is pressed, it works for centuries, until we pour out some twisted, entangled, blended, confused MESS (that ends of being a LOT closer to the Koran than the Bible, a lot more like "God helps those who help themselves" or "God makes it POSSIBLE for you to save yourself"). We often find people stating true things MISAPPLIED, MISDIRECTED so as to destroy Christ and glorify self, destroying the Gospel, destroying Christianity and making it more in line with Judaism, Islam and some forms of Hinduism. Sadly, it happens a lot. And not just in Catholicism.




Answer this: WHO IS the Savior?

IF you answer "Jesus" then Jesus is the Savior. Not you - not a bit, not at all, not now, not ever, not in any way or shape or form or manner. Salvation (justification) is entirely, wholly, totally wrapped up in Jesus. It's entirely HIS work. HIS heart. HIS love. HIS mercy. HIS gift. HIS blessing. His life, His death, His resurrection. His Cross, His blood, His sacrifice. His righteousness, His obedience, His holiness. Not you. Not yours. You may have some other role in some other matter, but not justification. The "job" of Savior belongs to Jesus. Not you.

IF you answer "ME!" then you are the Savior. Not Jesus. Not a bit, not at all. Not now, not ever. Not in any way, shape or form or manner. Salvation is all wrapped up in YOU. YOUR works. YOUR will. YOUR love. YOUR efforts. YOUR merits. YOUR obedience. YOUR righteousness. YOUR holiness. YOUR sacrifice. Not Jesus. Not Jesus'. Jesus may have some other role in some other matter, just not this one. The Savior is you.

Which is it? Try answering that. If you give the Christian answer, a LOT of Christianity falls into place. And you will avoid the greatest of all heresies: confusing self with Christ, denying Christ as THE (sole) Savior.





A blessed Lent to all.....


- Josiah
 
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MoreCoffee

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Romans 5:1
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Romans 8:30
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

We are NOT justified by works. If that was so then Lord Jesus suffered, bled, and died for no reason.

Yes saint James says that we are justified by works as was Abraham.
 

Josiah

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I believe that Jesus is THE Savior. Thus, Jesus does the saving.

Justification is the sole result of JESUS' works: HIS works. HIS righteousness. HIS love. HIS perfect life. HIS sacrificial death. HIS resurrection. JESUS is the Savior. Ergo, I'm not (the job is taken - before I was even born).

At NO point does you or me usurp Jesus - rendering Jesus a joke, a mistake. Rendering Him no longer THE Savior. His life meaningless.... His blood worthless.... His resurrection pointless.
At NO point does you or me become the cause of Justification - in whole or in part. Not now, not ever.
JESUS provides the justification. ALWAYS. UNIQUELY.

Those who usurp Jesus.... those who insist that THEY actually do the thing that means they go to heaven.... are making SELF the Savior and making Jesus a joke. They are ripping out the very central point and belief of Christianity, returning to Judaism.


John 3:16, "For God so loved the world (Sola Gratia) that HE gave His only begotten Son (Solus Christus) that whosoever believes in HIM (Sola Fide) will not perish but has everlasting life."


In theology, there is a distinction between JUSTIFICATION (becoming His own, the new relationship, the reality that means we are heaven bound) with SANCTIFICATION (living as His own, becoming Christ-like, growing in Him, Great Commandment). A distinction between Gospel and Law. God and self. A helpful comparison is to think of our birth (a GIFT, the result of OTHERS) and our growing up (what WE do, directed and empowered). A problem comes when these are confused.... then TRUE things are just dumped into a blender (along with oceans of water to water both down), then "high" is pressed, it works for centuries, until we pour out some twisted, entangled, blended, confused MESS (that ends of being a LOT closer to the Koran than the Bible, a lot more like "God helps those who help themselves" or "God makes it POSSIBLE for you to save yourself"). We often find people stating true things MISAPPLIED, MISDIRECTED so as to destroy Christ and glorify self, destroying the Gospel, destroying Christianity and making it more in line with Judaism, Islam and some forms of Hinduism. Sadly, it happens a lot. And not just in Catholicism.






.


Adding....


Faith:


Faith can be a noun (in which case it applies to the subject of our faith) or as a verb (in which case it applies to the trust/reliance in that subject). I'll address it from the standpoint of the verb since that's the use we commonly use and how it is meant in the Protestant view of Sola Fide.


"Faith" = to trust, to rely.


When I was a kid, I had surgery. I was just old enough to know I could die - and what that meant. I actually was okay with that. It had very little to do with heaven (a concept not yet in my heart or head) but with 1 John 4:8, "We rely on the love of God, because God is love." I remember meeting the surgeon in the hospital - and that he kept calling me by the wrong name (Josh, I think). I realized, he doesn't know me - much less love me or even care about me. That was powerful. And yet, Mom and Dad told me he was a good doctor and God could use him. I was okay with that... I remember being moved onto the cold, hard table with the huge light above me - although by this time I was already very sleepy - fighting that as best I could. I didn't know anything about the surgery, I didn't know anything about this surgeon, and clearly he knew nothing about me (not even my name) - or any of the rest of the staff involved in all this. And yet, I entrusted my life. Willingly. And I remember being okay wih that. I remember thinking: no matter what, it's okay, God loves me, and all that I love. God said, "My grace is sufficient for you." It was. While my reliance was active on my part (I placed my life in their hands), there were no "works" on my part involved. There was no "obedience" other than I laid limp and allowed to happen whatever happened...


I know how planes fly; I understand the principles involved. Still, whenever I board one of those HUGE planes, I am amazed. They are so big and heavy! And inside, they are STUFFED with overweight Americans (probably more so than the engineers planned for), and under them, all their luggage - too much. And, of course, I don't know the pilot and he doesn't know me (or care). I don't know the flight plan or the weather report. I don't know the mechanics or their reports or when this plane was last overhauled. In fact, I know NOTHING about this particular plan or crew or flight. And I realize that when a plane stops working at 40K feet, well, it means we'll all be meeting Jesus. While the ODDS of that are very small, that means little for this particular flight - this could be that 1% (or whatever). It bothers me not. I board the plane. And as it takes off, as it's going down the runway, I hope to be able to see the wings and sit (passively!! in awe of it all, and then, surprisingly soon, the wheels chirp, and the plane rises.


Faith and Knowledge certainly have a relationship, but it's not a causitive or mechanical one, but rather a relational one. See my two illustrations above. To insist that faith is the RESULT of knowledge is to deny that those below a certain IQ or age are capable of faith and therefore of salvation. And, IMO, undermines the very nature of faith which is to rest, rely, trust.



Faith is active. Luther said, "Faith is a busy, active thing." Faith changes us - from the inside out, and that reveals itself in genuine, not forced, things. Faith that is just some claim, words we chant, is not faith. Just chanting the right syllables is not faith.

There's two senses in which faith is to be active:

1. Faith causes us to rely, to rest, to trust. To use the airplane illustration above, another person may have the exactly same information (or LACK thereof!!!!) and yet does not board the plane. In his/her case, there is no faith. The irony is that faith, while active, is rest - and therefore passive.

2. Faith is a change in our heart and results in a change in our lives. "By their fruits you will know them." "Faith without works is dead." A good tree bears fruit. But don't press this TOO far! The "transformation" of faith is not complete (this side of heaven), we remain here always incomplete, always saint AND sinner at the same time. And while faith is constant, the opportunities are not. To insist, for example, that there must be tangible good works - helping the little old lady across the street - would be to insist that a baby cannot have faith and therefore cannot be saved. I think the thief on the cross had faith and salvation - as far as I can tell from the text, he did NOTHING after coming to faith. To make works a requirement is to proclaim he went to hell. The principle is sound, but it shouldn't be pressed too far.


Faith is GOD'S work, not ours. Faith is not OUR work for which WE can take any credit. "This is the work of God - to believe in the one He has sent." (John 6:29), "No one can say 'Jesus is Lord' except by the Holy Spirit" (1 Cor. 12:3), "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your doing, it is the gift of God" (Eph. 2:8),





Sola Fide (Faith Alone)...


"Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved." Acts 16:30-31


"For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son, that whosoever believe in Him will not perish but has everlasting life." John 3:16


"Everyone who believes in Him receives the forgiveness of sins through His name." Acts 10:43



Sola Fide states that justification (narrow sense), is the result of Christ's works, not our works.


Sola Fide does NOT exclude OUR works from our lives as Christians, it does exclude it as the means of our justification - it rejects that OUR works - per se - justify us.




Faith and works.


Two common Protestant proverbs:

"Faith alone saves but faith is never alone."
"We are save BY faith FOR works."

OUR works is a response or expression or "working out" of God's love and gift of salvation but it's not the cause of it. Galatians 5:25, John 13:34, Hebrews 11:6, James 2:17. A good tree yields good fruit, but it's the tree being good that makes the good fruit, not the good fruit that makes the tree good. God has done something inside of us - Ephesians 2:8, and that expresses itself in tangible, living, loving ways - which is the basis of the Great Commandment.



Some thoughts about James 2:17...


Faith, by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead."

Some will quote this verse as if it somehow undermines Sola Fide. It does not - actually, this is a part of Sola Fide. The Book of James is profoundly PRACTICAL, not theological in nature, and is entirely addressing the issue of discipleship (sanctification in the broad sense) not primarily focused on justification. The book of James is written TO Christians, thus the justified. In James 2:14-26, by separating faith from life, James is speaking of "faith" as just a proclaimation, a word, a chant, a syllable. Protestants agree: If faith is just a word, a thought, mental assent or agreement, if it's just a word we say - that's not faith at all. This is a part of the concept of Sola Fide. Luther said about this verse: "A man is justified by faith alone, but not by faith that is alone."



A blessed Lent to all...



- Josiah





.
 

Brighten04

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Yes saint James says that we are justified by works as was Abraham.

OK, you misunderstand James. Abraham believed God and that was counted unto him for righteousness.
 

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OK, you misunderstand James. Abraham believed God and that was counted unto him for righteousness.

James observes that "You surely know that Abraham our father was justified by his works after he offered up Isaac his son on the altar? There you have it, faith and works were working together; his faith was perfected by his works, and the scripture was fulfilled that says: “Abraham put faith in the Lord and it was counted to him as righteousness”, and he came to be called the Lord’s friend."
 

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James observes that "You surely know that Abraham our father was justified by his works after he offered up Isaac his son on the altar? There you have it, faith and works were working together; his faith was perfected by his works, and the scripture was fulfilled that says: “Abraham put faith in the Lord and it was counted to him as righteousness”, and he came to be called the Lord’s friend."

THAT was an act (work) of faith!

Romans 4:3
For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Galatians 3:6
Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

James 2:23
And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
 

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THAT was an act (work) of faith!

Romans 4:3
For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Galatians 3:6
Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

James 2:23
And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

All good works are acts of faith done in faith for the glory of God.
 

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Yes saint James says that we are justified by works as was Abraham.

No one is justified by works. We are justified by our faith in Jesus Christ.
 

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All good works are acts of faith done in faith for the glory of God.

Wicked people can do good works, and that doesn't mean they are people of faith. Scripture teaches us that those who are true children of God through faith in His Son will be renewed, and thereby their works will follow naturally to be works that glorify God.
 

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Was not our father Abraham justified by means of works, by offering his son Isaac upon the altar?
(James 2:21)
 

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Was not our father Abraham justified by means of works, by offering his son Isaac upon the altar?
(James 2:21)

Before the Law and before the cross, yes.
 

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You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
(James 2:24)
 

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You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
(James 2:24)

A born again believer is saved by faith, and his works attest to his renewed state.
 

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A born again believer is saved by faith, and his works attest to his renewed state.

No, the faithful are saved by grace. Faith is instrumental not causal. (Ephesians 2:1-10)
 

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No, the faithful are saved by grace. Faith is instrumental not causal. (Ephesians 2:1-10)

We are saved by God's grace through faith. Without faith no man can please God.

Hebrews 11:6
And it is impossible to please God without faith. Anyone who wants to come to him must believe that God exists and that he rewards those who sincerely seek him.
 

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We are saved by God's grace through faith. Without faith no man can please God.

Hebrews 11:6
And it is impossible to please God without faith. Anyone who wants to come to him must believe that God exists and that he rewards those who sincerely seek him.

Yes, it is true that it is impossible to please God without faith. It is also true that the faithful are saved by grace.
 
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