Infant Baptism

[Full O Beans]

That probably makes it hard for you to document that SCRIPTURE STATES all the prohibitions you keep placing on it.

There is only one reason for anyone to be baptized, and that is that one has received the gospel of Jesus Christ by FAITH. Any other reason is a false one.

But okay. Although it's a bit off topic, just quote the verses that state, "Thou art to ONLY baptize those who have celebrated at least X number of birthdays..... who have FIRST repented.... who have FIRST recited the sinner's prayer..... who FIRST have reached the age of X and therefore are no longer holy, perfect, rightousness for only sinners are to be baptized." Quote that verse. You know, you insist that what you think or what I think or what Thomas Muenzer thinks matters for nothing, what matters is what SCRIPTURES STATE. So quote it stating what you do. And since in 66 pages of your posts you've not had a change to get around to posting this verse(s), could you please tell us when you might get around to it?

You twist in the wind trying to come up with an argument. You have none. Rules are for the religious. For the free in Christ, baptism is a command of God for those who believe.

You must supply the verses that teach you to baptize all and sundry.

Like rejecting and protesting the universal practice of all Christians since 69 AD at the very lastest, imposing their OWN new opinions about requirements that they insist the Bible makes but they don't have time to show the Bible actually does?

Since AD 69? Not in your life. Baptizing babies became the norm in the RCC at about the 4th century. In church history there is no record of infant baptism until the year 370. Nothing biblical about it.

 

[Josiah]

There is only one reason for anyone to be baptized, and that is that one has received the gospel of Jesus Christ by FAITH.

Since you insist that what YOU think is irrelevant..... what Mr. Thomas Muenzer thinks is irrelevant.... what MoreCoffee or Lamm thinks is irrelvant..... all that matters is what SCRIPTURE STATES.... then we must wait until you will finally quote the Scripture that STATES, "Thou mayest NOT permit any to be baptized unless and until such person FIRST hath received the gospel and FIRST correctly recited the sinners' prayer, and FIRST said person repents and attain the age of X whereby they no longer art perfect, sinless, righteous for such mayest not be baptized."

When you have time, quote the verse where it STATES what you do. Because, as you keep stressing, what you think is irrelevant. What you say is worthless. What matters is what SCRIPTURE STATES. Okay. That's fine. Could you give us some idea when you will get around to that? It's been 67 pages of your posts so far, how many will it take? Let us know.

. Rules are for the religious.

Like, "Thou are forbidden to baptize those under the age of X?" "Thou art forbidden to baptize any unless they first weep X buckets of tears in repentance?" "Thou art forbidden to baptize any unless and until they FIRST accurately reciting the sinner's prayer and adequately participate in an altar call?" "Thou are forbidden to baptize any who are perfect, sinless, righteous and holy like God as are all who are under the age of X?" Rules like that? YOUR rules that you haven't had time yet to show God ever made?





- Josiah




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[Full O Beans]

Only what God says is relevant. You've been given that, and it appears you've exercised your prerogative to ignore it.

Now it's your turn. What does God say about sprinkling babies (when "baptizo" means "immerse in") who have no faith as yet, and cannot confess Jesus Christ with their mouth, nor follow up in the life of faith they have laid claim to by teaching and by leading others to Christ, nor by taking part in the function of the local Body of Christ and by partaking in the bread and wine of the Lord's Supper commemoration?

I will be patiently waiting for your scriptural support.


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[Josiah]

Only what God says is relevant.

I understand. Since you insist that what YOU think is irrelevant..... all that matters is what SCRIPTURE STATES.... then we must wait until you will finally quote the Scripture that STATES, "Thou mayest NOT permit any to be baptized unless and until such person FIRST hath received the gospel and FIRST correctly recited the sinners' prayer, and FIRST said person repents and attain the age of X whereby they no longer art perfect, sinless, righteous for such mayest not be baptized."

When you have time, quote the verse where it STATES what you do. Because, as you keep stressing, what you think is irrelevant. What you say is worthless. What matters is what SCRIPTURE STATES. Okay. That's fine. Could you give us some idea when you will get around to that? It's been 67 pages of your posts so far, how many will it take? Let us know.

Rules are for the religious.

Like, "Thou are forbidden to baptize those under the age of X?" "Thou art forbidden to baptize any unless they first weep X buckets of tears in repentance?" "Thou art forbidden to baptize any unless and until they FIRST accurately reciting the sinner's prayer and adequately participate in an altar call?" "Thou are forbidden to baptize any who are perfect, sinless, righteous and holy like God as are all who are under the age of X?" Rules like that? YOUR rules that you haven't had time yet to show God ever made?





- Josiah

 

[Full O Beans]

You haven't read my posts, then. I have offered scripture. You need to play your own game well. Let's see your definitive scripture.

 

[Josiah]

You haven't read my posts, then.

You've not yet quoted any, nothing that states, "Thou art forbidden to permit baptism to any under the age of X." "Thou art forbidden to permit the baptism of any who has not yet first wept buckets of tears in repentance." "Thou art forbidden to permit the baptism of any who has not yet accurately recited the sinner's prayer and correctly participated in an altar call." "Thou art forbidden to permit the baptism of any under the age of X who THEREFORE is perfect, holy, righteous for righteous people art forbidden from baptism." You just haven't got around to quoting Scripture stating ANY of the new, big, bold rules you've been stating. When will you? How much longer do we need to wait? Could you let us know?


Now, you insist - over and over - that what YOU think is irrelevant, YOUR opinion matters for nothing. What matters is exclusively WHAT SCRIPTURE STATES. Okay. Gotcha. Fine. When are you planning to quote where Scripture STATES all the rules you've been stating, all the bold new things YOU have been opinionating about? How much longer will it be?

Now, you insist that it is WRONG to make rules where GOD has not specifically done so. Okay. Gotcha. Fine. Well, YOU'VE been making rules for 67 pages now! One's gotta do THIS! One's gotta do THAT! Quite a list of rules (some invented by Mr. Thomas Muenzer in the 16th Century, most made by other folks after that). What we're waiting for is the verbatim quotes where GOD made those rules. Because your whole premise is that it's WRONG to make rules that GOD did not STATE in Scripture. When do you plan on quoting God, stating all those rules you've given? When should we expect that?


??????



- Josiah





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[Full O Beans]

As I have said, there is no rule you are looking for. Only the religious look for a list of rules. God has laid out clearly in His word who are candidates for baptism: those who openly confess faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. God tells us WHO ARE TO BE BAPTIZED. Babies and other unbelievers are just not included in that. You want to baptize babies and unbelievers because you have no hope for them, nor assurance of salvation in Jesus Christ---isn't that right?

Offer scripture, then.

 

[Josiah]

As I have said, there is no rule you are looking for. Only the religious look for a list of rules.

I see. So, why all your rules? You've been listing all these rules and repeating all your rules over and over and over and over - for 67 pages now. Gotta do THIS! Gotta do THAT! Gotta be THIS! Gotta jump through this hoop first! Gotta jump through that hoop first! Over and over and over. A plethora of rules you have, I've lost count of them. 67 pages of them. WHAT WE ARE WAITING FOR is where God made them. You insist we must disregard your opinions, your views, your rules - you seem to suggest to do so is "religious" and bad. You insist all that matters is what SCRIPTURE STATES. Okay. Understood. Gotcha. That's fine. So, when are you going to quote where SCRIPTURE states all the long list of rules you've been so boldly and frequently stating? How long do we need to wait for that? Can you give us some idea of how long you need, how many pages it's going to take for you to get around to this?

God has laid out clearly in His word who are candidates for baptism: those who openly confess faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Well..... YOU'VE said that. It's a rule of YOURS. But as you said, what rule YOU create are irrelevant, "religious" and wrong. All that matters is what rules SCRIPTURE STATES. So, when you get time, quote the verse where SCRIPTURE states "Thou mayest NOT permit the baptism of any who has not first openly confess faith in the Lord Jesus Christ." Just quote the verse where God states that rule. We all KNOW you've made it. Over and over and over and over. But you say we must disregard your rules- that such is irrelevant and "religious" and wrong, we must ONLY regard the rules SCRIPTURE STATES. And I'm not protesting that. I'm just waiting for that. Obviously, 67 pages of your posts is not enough time or opportunity for you to quote Scripture stating that rule, so how many more pages is it going to take? Can you give us some idea about that? How long must we wait?





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[Full O Beans]

Know the word, Josiah. There is only ONE stipulation for baptism: Confession of faith in Jesus Christ as one's personal Saviour.

Babies are incapable of understanding that or doing that.




Boom.

 

[Josiah]

Know the word, Josiah. There is only ONE stipulation for baptism: Confession of faith in Jesus Christ as one's personal Saviour.

There goes all those other rules you listed in this thread.....

But okay. Since ACCORDING TO YOU, whatever rules you state are irrelevant and wrong and only makes you "religious" - all that matters is what rule(s) SCRIPTURE STATE, then we continue to wait. And wait. And wait. Wait for the verse where SCRIPTURE STATES, "Thou must withhold Baptism and not permit any to receive it unless and until they first confess their faith in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior." Because, as you keep stressing, YOU making up rules is irrelevant, wrong and "religious." ALL THAT MATTERS is the where SCRIPTURE STATES some rule. So, quote SCRIPTURE stating that rule.

We're waiting. How long do you think we'll need to continue waiting? It's been 67 pages of your posts so far, how many more do you expect to need before you have time to just quote that verse? How long?




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[Full O Beans]

There goes all those other rules you listed in this thread.....

But okay. Since ACCORDING TO YOU, whatever rules you state are irrelevant and wrong and only makes you "religious" - all that matters is what rule(s) SCRIPTURE STATE, then we continue to wait. And wait. And wait. Wait for the verse where SCRIPTURE STATES, "Thou must withhold Baptism and not permit any to receive it unless and until they first confess their faith in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior." Because, as you keep stressing, YOU making up rules is irrelevant, wrong and "religious." ALL THAT MATTERS is the where SCRIPTURE STATES some rule. So, quote SCRIPTURE stating that rule.

We're waiting. How long do you think we'll need to continue waiting? It's been 67 pages of your posts so far, how many more do you expect to need before you have time to just quote that verse? How long?




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God wants believers only to be baptized. No one else is required.

 

[Josiah]

God wants believers only to be baptized.

Thus YOUR rule: only believers may be permitted to be baptized.
But according to YOU, we are to ignore your rules - you making rules makes are wrong, irrelevant and just makes you "religious."
According to YOU, what matters is GOD's rules, rules that SCRIPTURE STATES.

So, going with your insistence, we must ignore you rules (even the MANY you've now abandoned).
And wait until you can quote SCRIPTURE making THAT rule.
"Thou must withhold baptism and not permit any to receive it unless and until they FIRST confess their faith in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior."
We must ignore your rules (they make you religious)
We must look instead to rules SCRIPTURE STATES.

So, we wait for you to quote Scripture stating that rule.
How much longer do we need to wait?
It's been 68 pages of your posts so far, how many more do you need?




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[Full O Beans]

Stop the tomfoolery, will you? Post the scriptures you claim prove your ideas and let's go from there.

 

[Josiah]

Stop the tomfoolery, will you? Post the scriptures you claim prove your ideas and let's go from there.

YOU are the one with the long, long, long list of rules of your own invention. Not me.
YOU are the one insisting SCRIPTURE mandates certain things. All these rules. Not me.
YOU are the one who won't quote the Scriptures that state what you do.


I'VE said Scripture says to baptize. So far, no one has challenged that.
I'VE said that from at least 69 AD at the very latest, no one imposed any human RULES for withholding based on whether one had attained the age of X or not. No one challenged that.
I'VE said that along came Mr. Thomas Muenzer in the 16th Century who claimed there's a verse that states we must withhold baptism, forbid it, for any under the age of X. No one challenge that.
Others stated that SCRIPTURE STATES babies under the age of X are not to be baptized. (and a plethora of other rules about this - too many to keep track of, LOTS of rules)
I asked.... "Where?"
The rest of our 68 pages have been protestors of paedobaptism insisting "Because SCRIPTURE STATES we must not" but then keeping us waiting for the quote.




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[Full O Beans]

YOU are the one with the long, long, long list of rules of your own invention. Not me.
YOU are the one insisting SCRIPTURE mandates certain things. All these rules. Not me.
YOU are the one who won't quote the Scriptures that state what you do.


I'VE said Scripture says to baptize. So far, no one has challenged that.
I'VE said that from at least 69 AD at the very latest, no one imposed any human RULES for withholding based on whether one had attained the age of X or not. No one challenged that.
I'VE said that along came Mr. Thomas Muenzer in the 16th Century who claimed there's a verse that states we must withhold baptism, forbid it, for any under the age of X. No one challenge that.
Others stated that SCRIPTURE STATES babies under the age of X are not to be baptized. (and a plethora of other rules about this - too many to keep track of, LOTS of rules)
I asked.... "Where?"
The rest of our 68 pages have been protestors of paedobaptism insisting "Because SCRIPTURE STATES we must not" but then keeping us waiting for the quote.




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My fellow, your inability to provide definitive scripture has dragged this thread on to those 68 pages.

 

[George]

Lolol. Not.

Quite the opposite.

 

[George]

My fellow, your inability to provide definitive scripture has dragged this thread on to those 68 pages.

lol

 

[Full O Beans]

Quite the opposite.

I beg to differ. I have given scripture a number of times, and spoken what scripture says, but not seen any scripture or scriptural truth from most of you who have another opinion. It's just religious rhetoric on top of religious rhetoric.

Looking forward to the boring buffet of page 69!

 

[Alithis]

God wants believers only to be baptized. No one else is required.

He does indeed. for a person must hear the gospel and believe .... Then respond accordingly. If they dont believe .they wont respond...and since part of the response is to be baptised ,you dont find unbelievers submitting themselves to baptism very often ..though there are exceptions of those that do so without sincerity of heart. You know them by thier fruit.
I suppose you could drag a few unrepentant unbelievers to some water and dunk them..wont save them though..or hey.. You could do it while they are babies..at least they cant protest much.

 

[Alithis]

You've not yet quoted any, nothing that states, "Thou art forbidden to permit baptism to any under the age of X." "Thou art forbidden to permit the baptism of any who has not yet first wept buckets of tears in repentance." "Thou art forbidden to permit the baptism of any who has not yet accurately recited the sinner's prayer and correctly participated in an altar call." "Thou art forbidden to permit the baptism of any under the age of X who THEREFORE is perfect, holy, righteous for righteous people art forbidden from baptism." You just haven't got around to quoting Scripture stating ANY of the new, big, bold rules you've been stating. When will you? How much longer do we need to wait? Could you let us know?


Now, you insist - over and over - that what YOU think is irrelevant, YOUR opinion matters for nothing. What matters is exclusively WHAT SCRIPTURE STATES. Okay. Gotcha. Fine. When are you planning to quote where Scripture STATES all the rules you've been stating, all the bold new things YOU have been opinionating about? How much longer will it be?

Now, you insist that it is WRONG to make rules where GOD has not specifically done so. Okay. Gotcha. Fine. Well, YOU'VE been making rules for 67 pages now! One's gotta do THIS! One's gotta do THAT! Quite a list of rules (some invented by Mr. Thomas Muenzer in the 16th Century, most made by other folks after that). What we're waiting for is the verbatim quotes where GOD made those rules. Because your whole premise is that it's WRONG to make rules that GOD did not STATE in Scripture. When do you plan on quoting God, stating all those rules you've given? When should we expect that?


??????



- Josiah





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I see your repeating your word game..
Correct me for sure..but just as i never forbade baptizing infants ..has the poster you now engage done so?
Or like me stated..its false baptism ...

."BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME, TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE PRECEPTS OF MEN.' 8"Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men."…

The command ..in full .not dissected..is
"Repent and be baptized" - stop neglecting the command to maintain your mere man made traditions.