Do you believe Jesus was a failure?

visionary

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In his Sept. 24 vespers homily at St. Patrick’s Cathedral, addressing a group of priests and religious, Pope Francis said:

We can get caught up measuring the value of our apostolic works by the standards of efficiency, good management, and outward success which govern the business world.

Not that these things are unimportant!

We have been entrusted with a great responsibility, and God’s people rightly expect accountability from us.

But the true worth of our apostolate is measured by the value it has in God’s eyes.

To see and evaluate things from God’s perspective calls for constant conversion in the first days and years of our vocation and, need I say, it calls for great humility.

The cross shows us a different way of measuring success.

Ours is to plant the seeds: God sees to the fruits of our labors.

And if at times our efforts and works seem to fail and produce no fruit, we need to remember that we are followers of Jesus . . . and his life, humanly speaking, ended in failure, in the failure of the cross.
 

pinacled

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In his Sept. 24 vespers homily at St. Patrick’s Cathedral, addressing a group of priests and religious, Pope Francis said:

We can get caught up measuring the value of our apostolic works by the standards of efficiency, good management, and outward success which govern the business world.

Not that these things are unimportant!

We have been entrusted with a great responsibility, and God’s people rightly expect accountability from us.

But the true worth of our apostolate is measured by the value it has in God’s eyes.

To see and evaluate things from God’s perspective calls for constant conversion in the first days and years of our vocation and, need I say, it calls for great humility.

The cross shows us a different way of measuring success.

Ours is to plant the seeds: God sees to the fruits of our labors.

And if at times our efforts and works seem to fail and produce no fruit, we need to remember that we are followers of Jesus . . . and his life, humanly speaking, ended in failure, in the failure of the cross.


I find this statement from the pope strange. And have read a few other statements that raise questions.

Do you maybe have link to add?
 

visionary

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It is the concept that being the Lamb of God fulfilling His calling is in some way a failure. He finished all of His duties that God called Him to do perfectly without sin. I think He is our ultimate overcomer, since He overcome all sins that so easily beset us, and now represent us as our High Priest in Heaven. He is coming back soon in all His glory and this is not the time for anyone of faith to declare Him a failure especially a religious leader.
 

Brighten04

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It is the concept that being the Lamb of God fulfilling His calling is in some way a failure. He finished all of His duties that God called Him to do perfectly without sin. I think He is our ultimate overcomer, since He overcome all sins that so easily beset us, and now represent us as our High Priest in Heaven. He is coming back soon in all His glory and this is not the time for anyone of faith to declare Him a failure especially a religious leader.

I have to agree. It sounds as if the Pope doees not understand this.
 

Alithis

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In his Sept. 24 vespers homily at St. Patrick’s Cathedral, addressing a group of priests and religious, Pope Francis said:

We can get caught up measuring the value of our apostolic works by the standards of efficiency, good management, and outward success which govern the business world.

Not that these things are unimportant!

We have been entrusted with a great responsibility, and God’s people rightly expect accountability from us.

But the true worth of our apostolate is measured by the value it has in God’s eyes.

To see and evaluate things from God’s perspective calls for constant conversion in the first days and years of our vocation and, need I say, it calls for great humility.

The cross shows us a different way of measuring success.

Ours is to plant the seeds: God sees to the fruits of our labors.

And if at times our efforts and works seem to fail and produce no fruit, we need to remember that we are followers of Jesus . . . and his life, humanly speaking, ended in failure, in the failure of the cross.

humanly speaking is the SINful flesh speaking
-to announce in opposition to the word of God ,that his endeavor is failure when GOD has said his word accomplishes what he send it forth to do- is the spirit of ANTIchrist speaking in opposition to God .
 

visionary

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humanly speaking is the SINful flesh speaking
-to announce in opposition to the word of God ,that his endeavor is failure when GOD has said his word accomplishes what he send it forth to do- is the spirit of ANTIchrist speaking in opposition to God .
I am not far behind you on that.
 

pinacled

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Also this from the homily, opens and addresses the Muslim.

"I have two thoughts today for my Muslim brothers and sisters."
 

Ruth

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Being the King of Christianity now he is not a failure.
 

kiwimac

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From a human perspective his death was a failure, it is only as Christians that we perceive it to be otherwise. What Pope Francis is saying is both timely and correct. It is not how we judge a thing / person as people but how God sees the situation. Those accusing the Pope of being the Antichrist may want to consider remedial English classes as the meaning is quite clear.
 

Alithis

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From a human perspective his death was a failure, it is only as Christians that we perceive it to be otherwise. What Pope Francis is saying is both timely and correct. It is not how we judge a thing / person as people but how God sees the situation. Those accusing the Pope of being the Antichrist may want to consider remedial English classes as the meaning is quite clear.

not accusing him of anything .. i said any one who says that is speaking by the spirit of antichrist

much like peter when he denied Jesus would suffer many things at the hands of men and the Lord Jesus said "get behind me satan. "
 

Lamb

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From a human perspective his death was a failure, it is only as Christians that we perceive it to be otherwise. What Pope Francis is saying is both timely and correct. It is not how we judge a thing / person as people but how God sees the situation. Those accusing the Pope of being the Antichrist may want to consider remedial English classes as the meaning is quite clear.

When I first read the homily that is what I thought he was saying...that when things go wrong for us we as sinful men consider the cross a failure to us because we want everything to be perfect. That's not the message of the cross but our own sinful viewpoint.
 

Ruth

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When I first read the homily that is what I thought he was saying...that when things go wrong for us we as sinful men consider the cross a failure to us because we want everything to be perfect. That's not the message of the cross but our own sinful viewpoint.

I see.
 

pinacled

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From a human perspective his death was a failure, it is only as Christians that we perceive it to be otherwise. What Pope Francis is saying is both timely and correct. It is not how we judge a thing / person as people but how God sees the situation. Those accusing the Pope of being the Antichrist may want to consider remedial English classes as the meaning is quite clear.

Remedial english classes?
Or class war fare.
No ones reading comprehension is lacking. Shall we logistically critique the popes letter? So that plain english can be understood?

"The cross shows us a different way of measuring success.

Ours is to plant the seeds: God sees to the fruits of our labors.

And if at times our efforts and works seem to fail and produce no fruit, we need to remember that we are followers of Jesus… and his life, humanly speaking, ended in failure, in the failure of the cross."


Second paragraph goes into material wealth. Yet the pope is addressing the economically wealthy and poor. Insinuating that they need to remember self sacrifice while the "Concecrated" wealthy sit in decadence. Wealthy being his consecrated audience.

And without being consecrated? How subtle this sentence is, even in context.



"It also alienates people who suffer material poverty and are forced to make greater sacrifices than ourselves, without being consecrated."

As our Lord said,
Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.
 
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pinacled

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Remedial english classes?
Or class war fare.
No ones reading comprehension is lacking. Shall we logistically critique the popes letter? So that plain english can be understood?

"The cross shows us a different way of measuring success.

Ours is to plant the seeds: God sees to the fruits of our labors.

And if at times our efforts and works seem to fail and produce no fruit, we need to remember that we are followers of Jesus… and his life, humanly speaking, ended in failure, in the failure of the cross."


Second paragraph goes into material wealth. Yet the pope is addressing the economically wealthy and poor. Insinuating that they need to remember self sacrifice while the "Concecrated" wealthy sit in decadence. Wealthy being his consecrated audience.

And without being consecrated? How subtle this sentence is, even in context.



"It also alienates people who suffer material poverty and are forced to make greater sacrifices than ourselves, without being consecrated."

As our Lord said,
Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.
The cross
Colosians

having despoiled the principalities and the powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
 

pinacled

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The cross
Colosians

having despoiled the principalities and the powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Isaiah 22King James Version (KJV)

22 The burden of the valley of vision. What aileth thee now, that thou art wholly gone up to the housetops?

2 Thou that art full of stirs, a tumultuous city, joyous city: thy slain men are not slain with the sword, nor dead in battle.

3 All thy rulers are fled together, they are bound by the archers: all that are found in thee are bound together, which have fled from far.

4 Therefore said I, Look away from me; I will weep bitterly, labour not to comfort me, because of the spoiling of the daughter of my people.

5 For it is a day of trouble, and of treading down, and of perplexity by the Lord God of hosts in the valley of vision, breaking down the walls, and of crying to the mountains.

6 And Elam bare the quiver with chariots of men and horsemen, and Kir uncovered the shield.

7 And it shall come to pass, that thy choicest valleys shall be full of chariots, and the horsemen shall set themselves in array at the gate.

8 And he discovered the covering of Judah, and thou didst look in that day to the armour of the house of the forest.

9 Ye have seen also the breaches of the city of David, that they are many: and ye gathered together the waters of the lower pool.

10 And ye have numbered the houses of Jerusalem, and the houses have ye broken down to fortify the wall.

11 Ye made also a ditch between the two walls for the water of the old pool: but ye have not looked unto the maker thereof, neither had respect unto him that fashioned it long ago.

12 And in that day did the Lord God of hosts call to weeping, and to mourning, and to baldness, and to girding with sackcloth:

13 And behold joy and gladness, slaying oxen, and killing sheep, eating flesh, and drinking wine: let us eat and drink; for to morrow we shall die.

14 And it was revealed in mine ears by the Lord of hosts, Surely this iniquity shall not be purged from you till ye die, saith the Lord God of hosts.

15 Thus saith the Lord God of hosts, Go, get thee unto this treasurer, even unto Shebna, which is over the house, and say,

16 What hast thou here? and whom hast thou here, that thou hast hewed thee out a sepulchre here, as he that heweth him out a sepulchre on high, and that graveth an habitation for himself in a rock?

17 Behold, the Lord will carry thee away with a mighty captivity, and will surely cover thee.

18 He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house.

19 And I will drive thee from thy station, and from thy state shall he pull thee down.

20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will call my servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah:

21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.

22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

23 And I will fasten him as a nail in a sure place; and he shall be for a glorious throne to his father's house.

24 And they shall hang upon him all the glory of his father's house, the offspring and the issue, all vessels of small quantity, from the vessels of cups, even to all the vessels of flagons.

25 In that day, saith the Lord of hosts, shall the nail that is fastened in the sure place be removed, and be cut down, and fall; and the burden that was upon it shall be cut off: for the Lord hath spoken it.



And to those in spoil of trade.

23 The burden of Tyre. Howl, ye ships of Tarshish; for it is laid waste, so that there is no house, no entering in: from the land of Chittim it is revealed to them.

2 Be still, ye inhabitants of the isle; thou whom the merchants of Zidon, that pass over the sea, have replenished.

3 And by great waters the seed of Sihor, the harvest of the river, is her revenue; and she is a mart of nations.

4 Be thou ashamed, O Zidon: for the sea hath spoken, even the strength of the sea, saying, I travail not, nor bring forth children, neither do I nourish up young men, nor bring up virgins.

5 As at the report concerning Egypt, so shall they be sorely pained at the report of Tyre.

6 Pass ye over to Tarshish; howl, ye inhabitants of the isle.

7 Is this your joyous city, whose antiquity is of ancient days? her own feet shall carry her afar off to sojourn.

8 Who hath taken this counsel against Tyre, the crowning city, whose merchants are princes, whose traffickers are the honourable of the earth?

9 The Lord of hosts hath purposed it, to stain the pride of all glory, and to bring into contempt all the honourable of the earth.

10 Pass through thy land as a river, O daughter of Tarshish: there is no more strength.

11 He stretched out his hand over the sea, he shook the kingdoms: the Lord hath given a commandment against the merchant city, to destroy the strong holds thereof.

12 And he said, Thou shalt no more rejoice, O thou oppressed virgin, daughter of Zidon: arise, pass over to Chittim; there also shalt thou have no rest.

13 Behold the land of the Chaldeans; this people was not, till the Assyrian founded it for them that dwell in the wilderness: they set up the towers thereof, they raised up the palaces thereof; and he brought it to ruin.

14 Howl, ye ships of Tarshish: for your strength is laid waste.

15 And it shall come to pass in that day, that Tyre shall be forgotten seventy years, according to the days of one king: after the end of seventy years shall Tyre sing as an harlot.

16 Take an harp, go about the city, thou harlot that hast been forgotten; make sweet melody, sing many songs, that thou mayest be remembered.

17 And it shall come to pass after the end of seventy years, that the Lord will visit Tyre, and she shall turn to her hire, and shall commit fornication with all the kingdoms of the world upon the face of the earth.

18 And her merchandise and her hire shall be holiness to the Lord: it shall not be treasured nor laid up; for her merchandise shall be for them that dwell before the Lord, to eat sufficiently, and for durable clothing.
 

visionary

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No believer in Yeshua thinks of their King, their Messiah, their God, as a failure.
 

psalms 91

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TurtleHare

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No believer in Yeshua thinks of their King, their Messiah, their God, as a failure.

If those "believers" rely on themselves to earn salvation, then yeah, they kind of do see Him as a failure and the cross didn't finish the job.
 

popsthebuilder

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If those "believers" rely on themselves to earn salvation, then yeah, they kind of do see Him as a failure and the cross didn't finish the job.
There is a difference in relyng on yourself, and following the commands of the Lord. To love and believe God wholly, is to act accordingly as a result.
Jesus did what he was supposed to do. He was not a failure, nor will he be.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
 
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