Prayer and God's Will - Why Do So Many Christians Misunderstand?

[Uncle_Sol]

Laws of nature are the clockmaker's clock and interventions by God and His good angels may be very small or occasionally noticeably large as when the USSR decided not to take over Austria (something entered into their calculations, not to).

I suspect these coincidences (while more than that only) are not necessarily designed to directly convince anyone but to benefit them in this world you describe well. Saying "God is in absolute, immutable, week by week control" is both an over and under interpretation of the meanings of Scripture content by inexact preachers (something rather a lot of them do rather a lot) and it's not surprising this became the public image consequently.

Other prayer intentions I've observed are for the strengthening of others' virtues (virtue means going equipped) or of one's own belief which enlarge the issues - and I'm neither an evangelist nor an apologetist.

There are also instances when prayer is misused, the lesson of which sometimes only emerges afterwards.

 

[JustTheFacts]

Indeed. Did either prayer change God's Will? Nope. God intended Jesus to be killed and crucified according to the Bible text and that's what happened.

Yes, God had a plan that he didn't want to change and thank you God for that plan. Because of Jesus sacrifice, we have a path to salvation outside of our actions and words.

No not a cult leader or follower. I am a free man. Freed from the shackles of religious indctrination.

I too am free from religious indoctrination, but there is a huge difference between us. You seem to have rejected God, but I have found God in my life through certain events that I can only attribute to God, in the witnessing of God's creation, and through the word of God. Maybe you're just not trying.

 

[JustTheFacts]

Neither. My purpose is to make people think, rationally, critically.

But then I don't see you thinking rationally or critically. I completely understand your rejection of religious leader nonsense and indoctrination, but why does the actions of other prevent you from finding God through Jesus? If you want to convince others that you have a rational and critical rejection of Jesus based on your research, present it here for discussion. Otherwise, you are being just like the many atheists I've been dealing with who have personal reasons for rejecting God.

Yeah, I'm afraid that stuff is old hat and no longer has any relevance to me. I grew up and moved on. There are bigger and more important things in the Bible hidden allegorically in the text. Christianity doesn't understand this. It just peddles a foolish fantastical and nonsensical doctrine which just psychologically traps people's minds. There are plenty of useful things in the Bible and indeed in the major religious works of other manstream religions.

Yes, I agree that many who call themselves Christian are peddling foolish fantastical and nonsensical doctrine, but have you left this behind and truly dug into the word to find the truth for yourself?

That passage confirms what I have been saying. It's pointless praying for things or for situations to change. God's will is going to happen regardless of how you feel about it. Those with cancer are going to suffer regardless of how we feel about it. Those with terminal diseases are going to die regardless of how we feel about it. God has willed it to happen, he has permitted it to happen. God knows what we need. If we don't have what we need its because he has decreed it.

God's will is to have you believe in him and he will take actions that assist people. I had the following vision in February of 2023:

"Someone from work died who I hardly knew and someone was collecting money on their behalf. His last name was “Danford” or something like that. I asked how much people were contributing and he said $20. I kept going in my pocket, which was full of bills, and pulling out a bill. I pulled out a seven and a three, then finally found a twenty and gave it to him. I hurried home to find three people, whom I thought were kids, standing on a chimney hooking up an antenna. There were hazards all around the chimney - it was so small that they had to keep their balance and there were live electrical wires above them. "

My dreams have been helping me find God and sort through the religious nonsense you refer to. A year after I had this vision, my wife and I moved and found a home about 3-1/2 hours away. When I received the disclosure form, the woman selling the home noted that the lawn care person's name was "Danford." That was weird because I've never heard of anyone named "Danford," but a little over a year after my vision, I move into a home and that name is associated with it.

On July 27th I had a discussion with "Danford" and told him about my vision. He described to me how his wife had heart failure on March 4, 2023--a week after my vision. Danford's wife had died three times during that event, but through seven electrical shocks she was able to be brought back to life and kept alive. The details are undoubtably related to my vision so I'll ask you, "Did God know my wife and I would make decisions to move into that house or did God will it?" Incidentally, we had numerous issues that could have prevented us from moving into that home but everything seemed to work out just right. I don't have the answer to that nor does it matter. Consider that if that home deal hadn't worked out, my dream would have been forgotten because it wouldn't have meant anything. Did it all work out because I am trying very hard to follow God? That is my thought, but you can create your own opinion based on the facts. BTW, you could think I made this up, but I have documentation to prove it happened--including writing down the vision in late February of 2023.

How do I know Jesus is the way? Seven is a very important number in prophecy--in Revelation it references completeness. The "Seventy Sevens" prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27 is the most complete and thorough prophecy ever written and it is all about Jesus. God has allowed me to mathematically solve it and the solution proves God accurately predicted the year of Jesus birth and the exact details of his mission. Consider that Danford had to be hit seven times on March 4 which is 03-04 and adds up to 7, and 2023 adds up to 7. Together they are 7-7-7. Again, coincidence or God's plan?

There's a lot in much of the Bible that goes deeper than the literal interpretation.

 

[Mercury]

Yes, God had a plan that he didn't want to change and thank you God for that plan. Because of Jesus sacrifice, we have a path to salvation outside of our actions and words.

Ok, but if you're going to be consistent about God's control of everything, then you have to ask why did there need to be a plan for salvation in the first place? You will of course cite the "fall of man" and Genesis. But if God is in control of everything then it MUST have been HIS WILL and HIS PLAN for Adam and Eve to do what they did. It was HIS plan to put the forbidden tree right there where they could get at it (instead of placing it somewhere safe). It must have been HIS PLAN and WILL that the serpent was also there to tell them (truthfully) that God was lying about the tree being deadly to them and it must have been God's plan and will that Adam and Eve would eventually eat from the tree.

One begins to see how utterly nonsensical the Bible stories are IF you try to take them literally instead of allegorically. In fact it's even worse than I have described above if you are of the Christian denomination/type that believes God is Omniscient, all-knowing, knowing every single thing that ever happened, that is happening and that will happen in the future.

For this would mean that God put the forbidden tree right there within reach of Adam and Eve VERY DELIBERATELY and KNOWING IN ADVANCE that they would eventually eat from it and thereby cause the fall of man and the millenia of suffering and torment that would follow and the resulting need for a Jesus and his torture and crucifixion.

Do people really not think these things through?

Doesn't all of this suggest a God with a completely warped and screwed up mind? God could have avoided all this torment and turmoil by just placing the forbidden tree outside the Garden of Eden. The story makes no sense.

And that's because the story is NOT in fact literal. It is allegorical like so much else of Genesis. You're not supposed to think there was a real Adam and Eve. They are allegorical factors, they represent the male and female principles of all things of Nature. People have been hoodwinked by the Church's ridiculous constructed stories and ideology. They've not applied critical thinking, they've been made foolish by the doctrine and the divisive psychological techniques the Church employs.

In fact most Christians have totally glossed over Genesis and the most glaring giveaway recorded in it, which is where God wilfully lies to Adam and Eve. Some have seen it and because of their indoctrination have sought to make some kind of apology or excuse for it, for what else can they do? Their ideology demands that God must be a perfect being incapable of lying.

Genesis 2:17
"but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”

It's right there. God said, if you eat from the tree, then ON THAT VERY DAY, YOU WILL DIE.

It doesn't say, you will spiritually die or figuratively die or any other made up nonsense. It says very clearly you will die.

What actually happened?

Adam ate from the tree.

He DID NOT DIE

He went on living. He walked around the garden. He realised he was naked. He sewed fig leaves to make clothes. He subsequently spoke with God who asked him how he knew he was naked. He was thrown out of the Garden of Eden. He subsequently had sex with Eve and produced 2 sons, Cain and Able. Adam went on to live over 900 years !!!

Here are all the things Adam did after he was supposed to die the same day he ate from the tree

Genesis 3:21 "And the Lord God made for Adam and for his wife garments of skins and clothed them."
Genesis 4:1 "Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, saying, “I have gottena a man with the help of the Lord"
Genesis 4:25 "And Adam knew his wife again, and she bore a son and called his name Seth,"
Genesis 5:3 "When Adam had lived 130 years, he fathered a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth"
Genesis 5:4-5 "The days of Adam after he fathered Seth were 800 years; and he had other sons and daughters. 5Thus all the days that Adam lived were 930 years, and he died."


Wow, Adam was a pretty lively dead man wouldn't you say ? !!! He lived 930 years.

He didn't die the day he ate from the forbidden tree

God lied.

Pure and simple.

That is, IF . . . . . the Bible story of Gensis is taken literally.

This can not be reconciled.

I've heard all manner of Christian apologetics make excuses for God's lie in Genesis.

There's the "oh well he just meant he was dying spiritually" or some other mumbo jumo new age nonsense

I've had some fanatical fundamentalists actually INSIST that in fact Adam DID DIE the very moment he ate from the tree and that God subsequently created another 2nd carbon copy of Adam which is who the rest of Genesis refers to.

It's honestly tragic to see hoodwinked people stoop to such levels when the Bible text is as clear as day.

We have to see that religion is duping people and failing to teach the true message in the Bible text which can only be gleaned if you stop taking the texts literally and instead understand that it's allegorical. The God peddled by the Church is a fabrication. It's an absolute nonsense and any Christian is imo constantly fighting their own innate intelligence and rational sentience whilst continuing to permit the hoodwinking. They instinctively know something is "off" but the comfort of being in and participating in the ideology with the lovely social interraction and the comfy feeling that just thinking/believing something will deliver them to some future utopia is tooattractive for them to let their own minds speak truth to them.

You seem to have rejected God

No I haven't. All I have rejected is the farcical conception of god that is peddled by the Church and Christianity as a whole. An ideology which has enslaved millions and distracted them from the true path of searching. The real God is far different from what the Church peddles imho.
It will never be found whilst a person remains hoodwinked and totally shackled by religious indictrination.

 

[Mercury]

How do I know Jesus is the way? Seven is a very important number in prophecy--in Revelation it references completeness. The "Seventy Sevens" prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27 is the most complete and thorough prophecy ever written and it is all about Jesus. God has allowed me to mathematically solve it and the solution proves God accurately predicted the year of Jesus birth and the exact details of his mission. Consider that Danford had to be hit seven times on March 4 which is 03-04 and adds up to 7, and 2023 adds up to 7. Together they are 7-7-7. Again, coincidence or God's plan?

This is psychology. Same thing that leads people to believe in Horoscopes and Astrology. You cherry pick parts that support your desired narrative and ignoe that which doesn't.

For example, on 27th July, presumably this year 2024, you bumped into "Danford" and had your discussion with him. That's 27-07-2024.

Those numbers total 24. Not your magic 7. Just the day and month alone total 16 so again not your magic 7.
Why doesn't this notable date of you meeting with Danford factor in your reasoning?

It's called Selection Bias.

You have an innate need or hole in your life that you want to fill with some kind of spiritual miracle wonderment (for whatever reason) and so you will rather naturally concoct situations that feed that need.

You had your original "vision" (dream) in February 2023. For your magic 7 to apply here it would have had to have occurred on the 5th February (05-02) for no other date satisfies your lucky 7 theory.

Can you not see the fallacy of this kind of approach? This is not rational or critical thinking. This is in fact denial. It's an unwillingness to face reality. A refusal to face the real world because that world is cold and harsh and unforgiving and difficult to exist in. You want something comfortable and warm and cosy to help fill the holes in your life. That makes you incredibly vulnerable and weak and easily exploited by religion.

Only genuine humility and a good dose of courage can enable you to escape from that situation.

 

[JustTheFacts]

Ok, but if you're going to be consistent about God's control of everything, then you have to ask why did there need to be a plan for salvation in the first place? You will of course cite the "fall of man" and Genesis. But if God is in control of everything then it MUST have been HIS WILL and HIS PLAN for Adam and Eve to do what they did. It was HIS plan to put the forbidden tree right there where they could get at it (instead of placing it somewhere safe). It must have been HIS PLAN and WILL that the serpent was also there to tell them (truthfully) that God was lying about the tree being deadly to them and it must have been God's plan and will that Adam and Eve would eventually eat from the tree.

One begins to see how utterly nonsensical the Bible stories are IF you try to take them literally instead of allegorically. In fact it's even worse than I have described above if you are of the Christian denomination/type that believes God is Omniscient, all-knowing, knowing every single thing that ever happened, that is happening and that will happen in the future.

For this would mean that God put the forbidden tree right there within reach of Adam and Eve VERY DELIBERATELY and KNOWING IN ADVANCE that they would eventually eat from it and thereby cause the fall of man and the millenia of suffering and torment that would follow and the resulting need for a Jesus and his torture and crucifixion.

Do people really not think these things through?

Doesn't all of this suggest a God with a completely warped and screwed up mind? God could have avoided all this torment and turmoil by just placing the forbidden tree outside the Garden of Eden. The story makes no sense.

And that's because the story is NOT in fact literal. It is allegorical like so much else of Genesis. You're not supposed to think there was a real Adam and Eve. They are allegorical factors, they represent the male and female principles of all things of Nature. People have been hoodwinked by the Church's ridiculous constructed stories and ideology. They've not applied critical thinking, they've been made foolish by the doctrine and the divisive psychological techniques the Church employs.

In fact most Christians have totally glossed over Genesis and the most glaring giveaway recorded in it, which is where God wilfully lies to Adam and Eve. Some have seen it and because of their indoctrination have sought to make some kind of apology or excuse for it, for what else can they do? Their ideology demands that God must be a perfect being incapable of lying.

Genesis 2:17
"but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”

It's right there. God said, if you eat from the tree, then ON THAT VERY DAY, YOU WILL DIE.

It doesn't say, you will spiritually die or figuratively die or any other made up nonsense. It says very clearly you will die.

What actually happened?

Adam ate from the tree.

He DID NOT DIE

He went on living. He walked around the garden. He realised he was naked. He sewed fig leaves to make clothes. He subsequently spoke with God who asked him how he knew he was naked. He was thrown out of the Garden of Eden. He subsequently had sex with Eve and produced 2 sons, Cain and Able. Adam went on to live over 900 years !!!

Here are all the things Adam did after he was supposed to die the same day he ate from the tree

Genesis 3:21 "And the Lord God made for Adam and for his wife garments of skins and clothed them."
Genesis 4:1 "Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, saying, “I have gottena a man with the help of the Lord"
Genesis 4:25 "And Adam knew his wife again, and she bore a son and called his name Seth,"
Genesis 5:3 "When Adam had lived 130 years, he fathered a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth"
Genesis 5:4-5 "The days of Adam after he fathered Seth were 800 years; and he had other sons and daughters. 5Thus all the days that Adam lived were 930 years, and he died."


Wow, Adam was a pretty lively dead man wouldn't you say ? !!! He lived 930 years.

He didn't die the day he ate from the forbidden tree

God lied.

Pure and simple.

That is, IF . . . . . the Bible story of Gensis is taken literally.

This can not be reconciled.

I've heard all manner of Christian apologetics make excuses for God's lie in Genesis.

There's the "oh well he just meant he was dying spiritually" or some other mumbo jumo new age nonsense

I've had some fanatical fundamentalists actually INSIST that in fact Adam DID DIE the very moment he ate from the tree and that God subsequently created another 2nd carbon copy of Adam which is who the rest of Genesis refers to.

It's honestly tragic to see hoodwinked people stoop to such levels when the Bible text is as clear as day.

Yes, the story of Adam and Eve is a bit crazy, but since I wasn't there and there is only one record of it that Moses wrote, I believe it. I remember laughing at my Baptist wife when I first met her for believing all those crazy stories in the Bible. Now I realize that they are true, but the word of God is to be considered both literally and figuratively. For example, sometimes in Daniel 9:24-27 God meant that a 'seven' would mathematically equal a period of seven years. In contrast to that, in the same section of scripture a 'seven sevens' is representative of Jesus.

There are fanatics who think they know all about God and are happy to tell everyone they have all the answers. However, if you closely examine what is claimed, they haven't figured out what the word of God means, they have created theology to give a message they want to give. I suggest you quit being angry at the clown show and leave it behind to find the truth. If you study the word of God and assemble the messages, contradictions are resolved.

We have to see that religion is duping people and failing to teach the true message in the Bible text which can only be gleaned if you stop taking the texts literally and instead understand that it's allegorical. The God peddled by the Church is a fabrication. It's an absolute nonsense and any Christian is imo constantly fighting their own innate intelligence and rational sentience whilst continuing to permit the hoodwinking. They instinctively know something is "off" but the comfort of being in and participating in the ideology with the lovely social interraction and the comfy feeling that just thinking/believing something will deliver them to some future utopia is tooattractive for them to let their own minds speak truth to them.

I don't know what religious leaders and scholars claim about Adam and Eve and I don't really care. I do know that there were people alive when Adam and Eve were around, so they weren't the first human beings. What I do believe happened is that God chose them to be the first people of God by putting his spirit in them so that they would know in their heart the difference between right and wrong. The tree is symbolic of the tree of life which is representative of Jesus and salvation through him. Documented in Daniel is the vision of King Nebuchadnezzar of a great tree and this is also representative of the tree of life. Jesus mentioned the tree of life, so the tree of life of Adam and Eve, in my humble opinion is a reference to the tree of life. Moses wasn't around when Adam and Eve lived so he must have received the details of this in a vision from God. This makes common sense. The stuff you and I have been told over the years makes no sense.

No I haven't. All I have rejected is the farcical conception of god that is peddled by the Church and Christianity as a whole. An ideology which has enslaved millions and distracted them from the true path of searching. The real God is far different from what the Church peddles imho.
It will never be found whilst a person remains hoodwinked and totally shackled by religious indictrination.

I've dealt with numerous religious leaders and they are all associated with an organization or faction of the Church (apologetics, nondenominational, Baptists, Caholics, etc.) and they all tend to ignore and reject anything and anybody who doesn't agree with their theology. The Christian world is full of theology and this is not the word of God, it is the words of men and women posing as God. Do yourself a favor and ignore then and theology but focus on making sense of the word of God--it is through the Old Testament prophets such as Moses, Ezekiel, Isaiah, David, Daniel, and a bunch of others. It is also proven to be through Jesus as written in the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, and John, and through John's letters and his Revelation.

 

[JustTheFacts]

This is psychology. Same thing that leads people to believe in Horoscopes and Astrology. You cherry pick parts that support your desired narrative and ignoe that which doesn't.

For example, on 27th July, presumably this year 2024, you bumped into "Danford" and had your discussion with him. That's 27-07-2024.

Those numbers total 24. Not your magic 7. Just the day and month alone total 16 so again not your magic 7.
Why doesn't this notable date of you meeting with Danford factor in your reasoning?

It's called Selection Bias.

And you cherry pick data to reject God. The day I finally had this discussion with "Danford," July 7, 2024, had nothing to do with the event or my vision. The event had to do with his wife, not the husband and I simply presented that date because I document my dreams and when I learned the meaning of this one, it was so cool I wrote down the date I had my answer.

You have an innate need or hole in your life that you want to fill with some kind of spiritual miracle wonderment (for whatever reason) and so you will rather naturally concoct situations that feed that need.

You had your original "vision" (dream) in February 2023. For your magic 7 to apply here it would have had to have occurred on the 5th February (05-02) for no other date satisfies your lucky 7 theory.

Can you not see the fallacy of this kind of approach? This is not rational or critical thinking. This is in fact denial. It's an unwillingness to face reality. A refusal to face the real world because that world is cold and harsh and unforgiving and difficult to exist in. You want something comfortable and warm and cosy to help fill the holes in your life. That makes you incredibly vulnerable and weak and easily exploited by religion.

Only genuine humility and a good dose of courage can enable you to escape from that situation.

Maybe you want to change your profile from "Seeker" to say, "Rejecter," because your mind is too closed to let anything in.

 

[Frankj]

Something that it may be wise to consider here:

Isaiah 55:8-9 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. "

There are others as well, the Bible has the answer to every question we may have about God, his nature, and our relation to him.

If you look for it, and ask him for wisdom as guidance in finding it.

 

[Mercury]

I do know that there were people alive when Adam and Eve were around, so they weren't the first human beings.

Do you have a scripture citation for that ?

The tree is symbolic of the tree of life which is representative of Jesus and salvation through him. Documented in Daniel is the vision of King Nebuchadnezzar of a great tree and this is also representative of the tree of life. Jesus mentioned the tree of life, so the tree of life of Adam and Eve, in my humble opinion is a reference to the tree of life.

So you've concluded that the "tree of life" is a reference to the "tree of life" ?!

You're actually closer to the truth than you think.

The Tree Of Life is what it is all about. The stories, the allegories, the parables of Jesus. Loads of Bible passages allegorically refer to the Tree of Life and what that means for us. Jesus himself is an allegory for the Tree Of Life. The Tree Of life refers to that life giving substance that all humans need, the Fountain Of Youth, the Quintessence, The Pearl Of Great Price, the Philosopher's Stone. It has many many names and is referenced in the scriptural works of every mainstream religion. It's also called Soma and Brahma and Ambrosia and so on.
This substance can be created through the art of Alchemy and it is patently clear that Jesus was a master in this discipline. The Tree Of Life takes various forms. In its first level it is referred to as the White Stone. This stone bestows healing and rids a man of all illness and disease. It does so by providing the body with huge amounts of life energy, the fuel that your body needs to thrive. Your body already knows how to heal itself, for it was designed that way. Your body heals itself without any conscious input from yourself. All it needs is the right fuel to do its job and the White Stone contains that fuel or facilitates the flow of that fuel into your body like a magnet.

Revelation 2:17: "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of
the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it."

The second level of the Tree of Life is the Red Stone. This bestows longevity to humans. It's how Biblical figures managed to live very long lives of the order of 900+ years or more.

Both Stones, white and red also enable a person to conduct transmutations. The White can turn base metals into silver. The red can turn base metals into gold.

Sophic Hydrolith - ECCLESIAST. XI
"He that abides in the fear of the Lord, and cleaves to His Word, and waits faithfully on His office, will transform tin and copper into silver and gold, and will do great things with the help of God: yea, with the grace of Jehovah, he will have power to make gold out of common refuse."

The true hidden secret message in the Bible is about these Stones. It tells us what those Stones can do for us and describes some of the processes by which they are made.

Without these Stones (the Tree of Life) a human is dead. You are living on battery power effectively which is destined to run out. That is why you grow old, infirm, age and decay and eventually perish. You don't have sufficient quantity of the vital life force. You get some from what you eat and drink, you get some from the air you breathe but you don't get enough. Hence like most other humans you're dying.
As it happens he secret of the Tree Of Life, the Stones has started to be revealed to the world. For the past 10 years or so 1000s of people all over the world have been busily undertaking the Great Work to create their own Stones. This is doubtless at the heart of some of the strange things we've seen in the past few years, the war being waged on human health, the massive coercive media campaign to push people to take gene therapy based medical treatments and so on.

The elite few who have enjoyed this secret for a very long time, are now having to react to the fact that lots of people across the world are going to also enjoy the benefits of the Stone. They too will live very very long lives and in perfect health. If they go fully public with the information then the entire medical industry and all pharmaceuticals will collapse. They will no longer have a hold on humanity.

"God" is the universal life force that pervades all living things. It's available to all, provided you know how to tap into its source and effectively load it into substances that you can eat and drink thereby making yourself perfectly healthy and near immortal.

It's all there in the Bible, hidden in plain sight but only visible to those whom Jesus said have "the eyes to see and ears to hear". Everyone else just sees literal text in the Bible and perpetuates stupid Biblical stories based on that false literal reading.

Real change is coming.

People are going to be empowered by the eventual flooding out to all mankind of the Tree Of Life, the Philosopher's Stone.

The Christian world is full of theology and this is not the word of God, it is the words of men and women posing as God. Do yourself a favor and ignore then and theology but focus on making sense of the word of God--

As you can see from the above I'm already way ahead of you. I rejected the false stories peddled by the church. I began a new search for truth. I sought and I found just as the Bible said I would. I now have the "eyes to see and ears to hear".


Matthew 13:11
"He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given"
For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand"

In the past this knowledge was not for everyone. Jesus kept it for himself and his disciples. I guess they feared the secrets falling into the hands of wicked people. Sadly I think that happened anyway. It seems obvious today that wicked people have the Stones and have kept them from the public for many years. It gives the very few immense power and wealth and they fear now losing this. They will stop at nothing to prevent the wider public having access to this Tree of Life. Hence all the calamities we are seeing and the worse calamities that are undoubtedly just around the corner. Prepare yourself well for those.

 

[Mercury]

Something that it may be wise to consider here:

Isaiah 55:8-9 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. "

There are others as well, the Bible has the answer to every question we may have about God, his nature, and our relation to him.

If you look for it, and ask him for wisdom as guidance in finding it.

Hi Frank

The Bible is very allegorical in many places. You will need to learn to read it anew if and once you gain the eyes to see and ears to hear.
For example, in many places where it refers to the "Heavens" and the "Earth" this is allegorical and refers to something completely different to what you think it does. The Bible will tell you about the Tree Of Life if you look for it with open eyes and an open heart. That can't happen while you are still locked into the false psychological paradigms of the Church and mainstream Christianity. You have to first step back, be totally honest with yourself, realise that the literal reading of the Bible text just creates a nonsensical narrative and one that contradicts itself and creates massive unreconcilable problems for the doctrine. Such as God lying to Adam in Genesis that I discussed earlier.
If you gain the eyes to see, and then earnestly Seek, then you will find. Until then, you're held in the clever trap of religious psychological manipulation.

 

[Frankj]

Hi Frank

The Bible is very allegorical in many places. You will need to learn to read it anew if and once you gain the eyes to see and ears to hear.
For example, in many places where it refers to the "Heavens" and the "Earth" this is allegorical and refers to something completely different to what you think it does. The Bible will tell you about the Tree Of Life if you look for it with open eyes and an open heart. That can't happen while you are still locked into the false psychological paradigms of the Church and mainstream Christianity. You have to first step back, be totally honest with yourself, realise that the literal reading of the Bible text just creates a nonsensical narrative and one that contradicts itself and creates massive unreconcilable problems for the doctrine. Such as God lying to Adam in Genesis that I discussed earlier.
If you gain the eyes to see, and then earnestly Seek, then you will find. Until then, you're held in the clever trap of religious psychological manipulation.

To begin with, you do not know what I think. You know only the words I post.

But what part of my post are you taking issue with, the Bible verse or my suggestion that you can find any answer to any question in the Bible if you look for it?

 

[JustTheFacts]

If you or a loved one has cancer and is dying, as a Christian YOU HAVE TO accept that:

1. This happened because it was God's will for it to happen
2. God either caused it to happen or specifically permitted it to happen

If you don't accept the above then you're not taking Christianity seriously, you're not taking the Bible seriously, you're not taking God seriously

You either believe everything happens by God's will or you don't.

Which is it?

If you truly believe it then you can not pray to be cured of cancer or for your friend to be cured. That would be to pray against God's will.

But it may be God's will to heal if only someone prays. You speak as though are an authority who speaks for God, and that is nothing but arrogance to all of us "supposed Christians."

Do you have a scripture citation for that ?




So you've concluded that the "tree of life" is a reference to the "tree of life" ?!

You're actually closer to the truth than you think.

The Tree Of Life is what it is all about. The stories, the allegories, the parables of Jesus. Loads of Bible passages allegorically refer to the Tree of Life and what that means for us. Jesus himself is an allegory for the Tree Of Life. The Tree Of life refers to that life giving substance that all humans need, the Fountain Of Youth, the Quintessence, The Pearl Of Great Price, the Philosopher's Stone. It has many many names and is referenced in the scriptural works of every mainstream religion. It's also called Soma and Brahma and Ambrosia and so on.
This substance can be created through the art of Alchemy and it is patently clear that Jesus was a master in this discipline. The Tree Of Life takes various forms. In its first level it is referred to as the White Stone. This stone bestows healing and rids a man of all illness and disease. It does so by providing the body with huge amounts of life energy, the fuel that your body needs to thrive. Your body already knows how to heal itself, for it was designed that way. Your body heals itself without any conscious input from yourself. All it needs is the right fuel to do its job and the White Stone contains that fuel or facilitates the flow of that fuel into your body like a magnet.

Revelation 2:17: "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of
the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it."

The second level of the Tree of Life is the Red Stone. This bestows longevity to humans. It's how Biblical figures managed to live very long lives of the order of 900+ years or more.

Both Stones, white and red also enable a person to conduct transmutations. The White can turn base metals into silver. The red can turn base metals into gold.

Sophic Hydrolith - ECCLESIAST. XI
"He that abides in the fear of the Lord, and cleaves to His Word, and waits faithfully on His office, will transform tin and copper into silver and gold, and will do great things with the help of God: yea, with the grace of Jehovah, he will have power to make gold out of common refuse."

The true hidden secret message in the Bible is about these Stones. It tells us what those Stones can do for us and describes some of the processes by which they are made.

Without these Stones (the Tree of Life) a human is dead. You are living on battery power effectively which is destined to run out. That is why you grow old, infirm, age and decay and eventually perish. You don't have sufficient quantity of the vital life force. You get some from what you eat and drink, you get some from the air you breathe but you don't get enough. Hence like most other humans you're dying.
As it happens he secret of the Tree Of Life, the Stones has started to be revealed to the world. For the past 10 years or so 1000s of people all over the world have been busily undertaking the Great Work to create their own Stones. This is doubtless at the heart of some of the strange things we've seen in the past few years, the war being waged on human health, the massive coercive media campaign to push people to take gene therapy based medical treatments and so on.

The elite few who have enjoyed this secret for a very long time, are now having to react to the fact that lots of people across the world are going to also enjoy the benefits of the Stone. They too will live very very long lives and in perfect health. If they go fully public with the information then the entire medical industry and all pharmaceuticals will collapse. They will no longer have a hold on humanity.

"God" is the universal life force that pervades all living things. It's available to all, provided you know how to tap into its source and effectively load it into substances that you can eat and drink thereby making yourself perfectly healthy and near immortal.

It's all there in the Bible, hidden in plain sight but only visible to those whom Jesus said have "the eyes to see and ears to hear". Everyone else just sees literal text in the Bible and perpetuates stupid Biblical stories based on that false literal reading.

Real change is coming.

People are going to be empowered by the eventual flooding out to all mankind of the Tree Of Life, the Philosopher's Stone.




As you can see from the above I'm already way ahead of you. I rejected the false stories peddled by the church. I began a new search for truth. I sought and I found just as the Bible said I would. I now have the "eyes to see and ears to hear".


Matthew 13:11
"He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given"
For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand"

In the past this knowledge was not for everyone. Jesus kept it for himself and his disciples. I guess they feared the secrets falling into the hands of wicked people. Sadly I think that happened anyway. It seems obvious today that wicked people have the Stones and have kept them from the public for many years. It gives the very few immense power and wealth and they fear now losing this. They will stop at nothing to prevent the wider public having access to this Tree of Life. Hence all the calamities we are seeing and the worse calamities that are undoubtedly just around the corner. Prepare yourself well for those.

Do you have a scripture citation for that ?

Genesis 4:13-17

 

[JustTheFacts]

It's all there in the Bible, hidden in plain sight but only visible to those whom Jesus said have "the eyes to see and ears to hear". Everyone else just sees literal text in the Bible and perpetuates stupid Biblical stories based on that false literal reading.

I must not be special because the special stones do not make any sense to me.

 

[Mercury]

But what part of my post are you taking issue with, the Bible verse or my suggestion that you can find any answer to any question in the Bible if you look for it?

I'm not really taking issue with anything. I was simply highlighting that much of the Bible is allegorical and those allegories conceal great secrets. The passage you quoted and it's further passages use allegorically that is all over the Bible. Passages that refer to "heavens" and "Earth" and rain falling or dew and the earth being nourished or revived and so on. Your quoted verse continues:

"For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. 10 “For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven and do not return there but water the earth, making it bring forth and sprout, giving seed to the sower and bread to the eater"

It's allegorically describing something

 

[Frankj]

I'm not really taking issue with anything. I was simply highlighting that much of the Bible is allegorical and those allegories conceal great secrets. The passage you quoted and it's further passages use allegorically that is all over the Bible. Passages that refer to "heavens" and "Earth" and rain falling or dew and the earth being nourished or revived and so on. Your quoted verse continues:

"For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. 10 “For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven and do not return there but water the earth, making it bring forth and sprout, giving seed to the sower and bread to the eater"

It's allegorically describing something

So what do you say they really mean?

 

[Mercury]

But it may be God's will to heal if only someone prays. You speak as though are an authority who speaks for God, and that is nothing but arrogance to all of us "supposed Christians."

I'm speaking only from my personal perspective and understanding. I've already mentioned that, for me personally, the mere suggestion that God would inflict a horrible disease on someone and make them suffer purely for the purpose of seeing if someone else prays for their healing, would be an utterly sick and twisted thing for any god to do. It's perverse. I can not for one second believe that an all-powerful and all-loving entity would ever make a human terribly sick just to see if someone else would pray for them. How can you even contemplate such a thing?!

 

[Mercury]

So what do you say they really mean?

The many and various references to "heavens" and "earth" and rain and dew and so forth are describing a basic process of Alchemy by which the Tree Of Life or Philosopher's Stone is created. It refers to a glass flask in which an earthy substance is placed along with a special liquid and the flask then placed in a warm environment, gentle heat which causes the moist substance to give off a vapour (or mist) which rises to the top of the flask (the heavens) and then condenses, forms dew drops there which subsequently fall back down onto the earthy substance just like rain drops. This process is continual just like our weather systems. The process cause the earthy substance to putrefy and decompose to a jet black. It then revivies that earthy substance turns it various colours but eventually pure brilliant White. That is the White Stone. The process can be left to continue for more time which then eventually makes the substance turn crimson red. The Red Stone.

Another example:

Genesis 2:4-7: This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, before any plant of the field was in the earth and before any herb of the field had grown. For the LORD God had not caused it to rain on the earth, and there was no man to till the ground; but a mist went up from the earth and watered the whole face of the ground. "

and another

Genesis 19:1 "and God made a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters asswaged; The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained; And the waters returned from off the earth continually:"

and another

Isaiah 45:8

"Distil, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, that it may bring forth salvation,
and let it cause righteousness to spring up together; I, Jehovah, have created it.

 

[Frankj]

The many and various references to "heavens" and "earth" and rain and dew and so forth are describing a basic process of Alchemy by which the Tree Of Life or Philosopher's Stone is created. It refers to a glass flask in which an earthy substance is placed along with a special liquid and the flask then placed in a warm environment, gentle heat which causes the moist substance to give off a vapour (or mist) which rises to the top of the flask (the heavens) and then condenses, forms dew drops there which subsequently fall back down onto the earthy substance just like rain drops. This process is continual just like our weather systems. The process cause the earthy substance to putrefy and decompose to a jet black. It then revivies that earthy substance turns it various colours but eventually pure brilliant White. That is the White Stone. The process can be left to continue for more time which then eventually makes the substance turn crimson red. The Red Stone.

Another example:

Genesis 2:4-7: This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, before any plant of the field was in the earth and before any herb of the field had grown. For the LORD God had not caused it to rain on the earth, and there was no man to till the ground; but a mist went up from the earth and watered the whole face of the ground. "

and another

Genesis 19:1 "and God made a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters asswaged; The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained; And the waters returned from off the earth continually:"

and another

Isaiah 45:8

"Distil, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, that it may bring forth salvation,
and let it cause righteousness to spring up together; I, Jehovah, have created it.

Well, let me further ask then, what does Genesis 1:1 really mean?

 

[Mercury]

Genesis by and large is describing the main "cooking" process of alchemy in the same way as I described above. Heavens, Earth, Mist, Rain etc etc. Why did you really think it was describing the creation of the entire infinite universe in 7 days !!

 

[Frankj]

Genesis by and large is describing the main "cooking" process of alchemy in the same way as I described above. Heavens, Earth, Mist, Rain etc etc. Why did you really think it was describing the creation of the entire infinite universe in 7 days !!

You fail to understand Genesis 1:1, it doesn't say that the entire universe was created in 7 days. Meditate on it for a while.