Elderly people leaving Christianity

[Lucian Hodoboc]

Lately, I've come across several elderly people on the internet who have deconverted and left Christianity after decades of being practicing Christians and believers. Some of them began making videos about how much they regret having dedicated their lives to something they truly believed to be real and how disappointed they are about how much God and Jesus let them down.

After 25 years of being a pastor for 5 churches, this 65-year-old man deconverted and claims that Christianity is fiction. He spent hours reading all sort of apologetics books in order to build his faith, but eventually Christianity just didn't make any sense to him and the overwhelming atheistic arguments convinced him:

This man is in his 60s and has recently started a TikTok account to share how Christianity and following Jesus ruined his life: TikTok - Make Your Day

This lady is in her 70s and makes videos on YouTube about how, after decades of praying and being a practicing Christian, she found none of the "freedom in Christ" that Christianity preaches. She has deconverted and talks about a plethora of issues:

This man is in his 60s and has deconverted after being a very devout Christian for decades. The lack of applicability of the Biblical promises to everyday life started to pile up until it became overwhelmingly clear that either the Bible is flawed or God doesn't exist: TikTok - Make Your Day

What is your opinion about the elderly people who leave the faith?

I understand that the general explanation for young people who deconvert is that they are seeking their own desires and prefer to live in sin rather than follow the teachings of the Bible. However, what sinful desires would elderly people have? Most of them are past the age of seeking fornication, adultery, parties, drugs etc. Most of them have truly and genuinely sought Jesus in prayer for years and have gone through the Bible countless times.

 

[NewCreation435]

Age does not equate with wisdom nor does it mean that since you are elderly you don't have sin in your life. Try reading Matthew 13 where Jesus describes four different types of soil Only 1/4 of those who receive the seed of the gospel end up bearing fruit.
Doesn't it make sense that if God is infinite in who he is that at times we would have trouble with our finite brains understanding Him?

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

Doesn't it make sense that if God is infinite in who he is that at times we would have trouble with our finite brains understanding Him?

No, it does not. To me, it makes no sense for an infinite and all-powerful God Who claims that He wants to have a relationships with His creation to design His creation with insufficient abilities to understand Him.

 

[Lamb]

Lately, I've come across several elderly people on the internet who have deconverted and left Christianity after decades of being practicing Christians and believers. Some of them began making videos about how much they regret having dedicated their lives to something they truly believed to be real and how disappointed they are about how much God and Jesus let them down.

After 25 years of being a pastor for 5 churches, this 65-year-old man deconverted and claims that Christianity is fiction. He spent hours reading all sort of apologetics books in order to build his faith, but eventually Christianity just didn't make any sense to him and the overwhelming atheistic arguments convinced him:

This man is in his 60s and has recently started a TikTok account to share how Christianity and following Jesus ruined his life: TikTok - Make Your Day

This lady is in her 70s and makes videos on YouTube about how, after decades of praying and being a practicing Christian, she found none of the "freedom in Christ" that Christianity preaches. She has deconverted and talks about a plethora of issues:

This man is in his 60s and has deconverted after being a very devout Christian for decades. The lack of applicability of the Biblical promises to everyday life started to pile up until it became overwhelmingly clear that either the Bible is flawed or God doesn't exist: TikTok - Make Your Day

What is your opinion about the elderly people who leave the faith?

I understand that the general explanation for young people who deconvert is that they are seeking their own desires and prefer to live in sin rather than follow the teachings of the Bible. However, what sinful desires would elderly people have? Most of them are past the age of seeking fornication, adultery, parties, drugs etc. Most of them have truly and genuinely sought Jesus in prayer for years and have gone through the Bible countless times.

Do you really think a man in his 60s no longer has sinful desires?

I hope this post of yours isn't an indication that you're thinking of leaving Christianity because other people turned away?

When people throw away their faith, it's because they buy into Satan's lies, and that makes Satan happy. He doesn't want God to have His sheep.

 

[tango]

No, it does not. To me, it makes no sense for an infinite and all-powerful God Who claims that He wants to have a relationships with His creation to design His creation with insufficient abilities to understand Him.

So you're saying something relatively simple should be able to understand something far more complex? You seem to be back to complaining that God can't be God because we aren't God.

 

[Albion]

What is your opinion about the elderly people who leave the faith?

I understand that the general explanation for young people who deconvert is that they are seeking their own desires and prefer to live in sin rather than follow the teachings of the Bible. However, what sinful desires would elderly people have? Most of them are past the age of seeking fornication, adultery, parties, drugs etc. Most of them have truly and genuinely sought Jesus in prayer for years and have gone through the Bible countless times.

In the case of the elderly, there probably are several different groups involved. Some, such as you highlighted here, really did renounce their earlier decision to be believers, Christians. Why they made this move, I am not certain. Perhaps it's because, with advancing age, it's common for people to reassess their whole lives, what they did in haste or foolishly, what they would do differently if it were possible to turn back the clock, and so on.

But I also suspect that many church-goers who have disappeared from the pews since the Covid lockdowns and hysteria of a few years ago simply learned to think of their faith in more personal terms during their isolation.

At present, they may still remain strong in their Christian commitment, but they've become less concerned about the need to show up on Sunday morning for a scripted, group experience of corporate worship that most of us were taught in childhood is the correct way to express our faith.

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

Do you really think a man in his 60s no longer has sinful desires?

If he was able to keep them at bay while remaining a Christian all throughout his youth and middle age, I don't imagine these desire would get stronger in his latter years. It is a lot less common to hear about elderly people engaging in habitual sins.

Also, if you watch the videos you'll find out that they deconverted because of the complete absence of involvement from God's part in their lives. They sought and sought and sought Him only for God to pull the hide and seek card and never answer their prayers, while the other Christians did the "God never promised us an easy life" gaslighting dance.

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

Try reading Matthew 13 where Jesus describes four different types of soil Only 1/4 of those who receive the seed of the gospel end up bearing fruit.

Well, then the Gospel is not a very efficient thing, now, is it? If we see that a type of seed only has success with very few types of soil, then maybe it's time to bioengineer the seed to make it more adaptable to more types of soil. Maybe try finding out what types of nutrients are absent in these soils and supplement them with the right substances instead of blaming them for not being compatible with your seed.

 

[Lamb]

If he was able to keep them at bay while remaining a Christian all throughout his youth and middle age, I don't imagine these desire would get stronger in his latter years. It is a lot less common to hear about elderly people engaging in habitual sins.

Also, if you watch the videos you'll find out that they deconverted because of the complete absence of involvement from God's part in their lives. They sought and sought and sought Him only for God to pull the hide and seek card and never answer their prayers, while the other Christians did the "God never promised us an easy life" gaslighting dance.

Older men don't have to "brag" about their sinful encounters as much as younger men do. That's why you don't hear about it. And being closer to 60 than you are, I have to say that I know plenty of men that age who sin. They're just better at hiding it as they get older.

God isn't the one hiding. That's the huge misconception. Plus, people demand that God do things for them without looking at the bigger picture, the fact that God came to earth to die in our place for our sins. They pull away because they don't see the importance of the atonement.

 

[tango]

Well, then the Gospel is not a very efficient thing, now, is it? If we see that a type of seed only has success with very few types of soil, then maybe it's time to bioengineer the seed to make it more adaptable to more types of soil. Maybe try finding out what types of nutrients are absent in these soils and supplement them with the right substances instead of blaming them for not being compatible with your seed.

... or maybe accept that some people just don't want to hear it?

Lots of your "solutions" turn into little more than "Why doesn't God just force us to do it?" while at the same time you complain about God being like a dictator.

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

Lots of your "solutions" turn into little more than "Why doesn't God just force us to do it?" while at the same time you complain about God being like a dictator.

An omnipotent God should be able to make us receptible to the Gospel without forcing us. He seemed to be able to offer Thomas the proof he asked for in order to make him receptible to the Gospel. Did He force Thomas? As far as we know, no, He didn't. Thomas was still free to disbelieve even after Jesus showed him His wounds.

God knows the things that would convince each person, He knows what it would take to make each type of "soil" be compatible with the "seed" and what each type of "soil" would require to "give fruit".

The "rocky soil" needs the rocks removed or broken/grounded, meaning the people whom God knows would abandon their faith because of certain hardships should be spared of having those hardships. There are plenty of Christians who live comfortable lives devoid of major hardships, so why do some need to have hardships that would make them abandon their faith and send them to eternal torture?

The "thorny soil" needs the thorns removed, meaning that the people whom God knows would abandon their faith because of the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth should be offered people in their lives to guide them in such a way as to not have those worries and to not be deceived by wealth? You know, wise parents, helpful siblings, a loving and resourceful spouse, good friends etc. There are plenty of rich Christians who manage their wealth responsibly and who use it to help the poor through charities and other such means. So, why do some need to be deceived by wealth and end up in hell?

That is what an omnibenevolent deity would do.

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

... or maybe accept that some people just don't want to hear it?

Some have heard it plenty of times and dedicated years of their lives to studying it, yet it doesn't make sense to them. Why should they be punished for something that it beyond their abilities? Do you think it would be fair to punish someone who is tone deaf for failing a music test? Do you think it would be fair to torture for eternity someone who has heard the Gospel, studied it and concluded that it was incoherent, irrational and unjust?

 

[Albion]

Well, then the Gospel is not a very efficient thing, now, is it? If we see that a type of seed only has success with very few types of soil, then maybe it's time to bioengineer the seed to make it more adaptable to more types of soil. Maybe try finding out what types of nutrients are absent in these soils and supplement them with the right substances instead of blaming them for not being compatible with your seed.

There's very little in Scripture which suggests that God winks at sin. In fact, his nature is considered by theologians to preclude such a thing as God letting sinfulness 'get a pass' just so he can win more humans to his side than Satan does OR as a feature of his being the epitome of love.

 

[Bluezone777]

There is no real point in arguing with him. He does not believe nor ever has and all his questions he gives you are not given in a search for information but his way of justifying to himself his disbelief in God and the scriptures. These people in those videos never believed either as their profession of belief was done for one reason or another but not because they actually believed. I believe people in their own strength can live the lie of being a believer for a time but eventually those false believers eventually expose themselves when they are no longer capable of living the lie anymore. The act of believing in the gospel itself is a work of the Holy Spirit and it is only through the power of the Holy Spirit can a man start to believe and remain a believer throughout their life. It doesn't mean a believer can't wander away from the faith but God will never let one of his own wander away forever as he will go out of His way to find and bring his sheep back to him as a good shepherd will always do.

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

There's very little in Scripture which suggests that God winks at sin. In fact, his nature is considered by theologians to preclude such a thing as God letting sinfulness 'get a pass' just so he can win more humans to his side than Satan does OR as a feature of his being the epitome of love.

I did not suggest that He should let sinfulness get a pass, but rather that He should offer life circumstances that make it possible for the people that are born with a propensity for certain sins to not be tempted by them. For example, He could bring into the lives of people who are prone to fornication a loving spouse whom would help and support them to such a degree that the temptations would simply disappear.

 

[tango]

An omnipotent God should be able to make us receptible to the Gospel without forcing us. He seemed to be able to offer Thomas the proof he asked for in order to make him receptible to the Gospel. Did He force Thomas? As far as we know, no, He didn't. Thomas was still free to disbelieve even after Jesus showed him His wounds.

God knows the things that would convince each person, He knows what it would take to make each type of "soil" be compatible with the "seed" and what each type of "soil" would require to "give fruit".

The "rocky soil" needs the rocks removed or broken/grounded, meaning the people whom God knows would abandon their faith because of certain hardships should be spared of having those hardships. There are plenty of Christians who live comfortable lives devoid of major hardships, so why do some need to have hardships that would make them abandon their faith and send them to eternal torture?

The "thorny soil" needs the thorns removed, meaning that the people whom God knows would abandon their faith because of the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth should be offered people in their lives to guide them in such a way as to not have those worries and to not be deceived by wealth? You know, wise parents, helpful siblings, a loving and resourceful spouse, good friends etc. There are plenty of rich Christians who manage their wealth responsibly and who use it to help the poor through charities and other such means. So, why do some need to be deceived by wealth and end up in hell?

That is what an omnibenevolent deity would do.

So an omnipotent God must do it the way you would do it? God should make everybody's life all sunshine and roses so there are no challenges, because that's what you think life should be?

If you ever get to be God then by all means do it the way you think it should be done. For now it seems all you've got is endless variations of "I wouldn't have done it this way, therefore God is bad or doesn't exist".

 

[tango]

Some have heard it plenty of times and dedicated years of their lives to studying it, yet it doesn't make sense to them. Why should they be punished for something that it beyond their abilities? Do you think it would be fair to punish someone who is tone deaf for failing a music test? Do you think it would be fair to torture for eternity someone who has heard the Gospel, studied it and concluded that it was incoherent, irrational and unjust?

First of all, get rid of this term "torture" and try "torment" instead. It might sound like semantic gymnastics but think of the difference between someone actively inflicting pain on you, and you knowing that you were the author of your own misfortune. To use the party analogy I've used in other threads like this one, it's the difference between the host coming out of the party to brand you with a burning iron, and knowing you're excluded from the party not because the host didn't invite you but because you declined the invitation. If you're invited into the place where only good exists, and you choose to decline the invitation and end up in the place where no good exists, that's on you.

Secondly, look at what Jesus said about the greatest commandment. Love God with all your heart, mind, soul, strength. If you're the kind of person who makes Einstein look like some two-bit hack then "all your mind" means a lot. If you're someone who got their tongue frozen to the flagpole for the sixth time this week and it's only Tuesday, it means a lot less.

I must admit I'm really not sure where you're coming from with a lot of your questions. Your profile says you are a Christian, you dutifully capitalise all sorts of words relating to God and yet most of what you post is little more than a series of complaints that God doesn't do things the way you think he should, and concluding that God can't be as described. Ultimately whether God is real or not, whether God is as described by the Bible or not, is a function of reality and not what you or I or anyone else thinks it should be. There's nothing wrong with having questions but from my perspective at least it looks like it's the same thing presented over and over and over again with a marginally different slant on it each time.

 

[Lees]

@Lucian Hodoboc

In the section 'Prayer & Christian Devotion' you posted on April 10, 2024, 'Please Pray for this lady'.

Based on what you say in this thread....Why would you ask such a silly question?

Lees

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

There's nothing wrong with having questions but from my perspective at least it looks like it's the same thing presented over and over and over again with a marginally different slant on it each time.

How is that any different from the multitude of repetitive threads talking about salvation, grace, sins and all the other Christian topics you can find in these forums?

If you have such a big issue with the religion mentioned on my profile, fine, I'll change it.

@Lucian Hodoboc

In the section 'Prayer & Christian Devotion' you posted on April 10, 2024, 'Please Pray for this lady'.

Based on what you say in this thread....Why would you ask such a silly question?

Lees

What do you mean? What I'm saying is that I disagree with God's ways, not that I don't believe in God.

How does the fact that I disagree with God's ways change the fact that He's in charge? It doesn't. He is in charge and I figure that if there's a chance that prayer persuades Him to help another fellow human, then I should get other people involved in the process of persuading Him.

 

[tango]

How is that any different from the multitude of repetitive threads talking about salvation, grace, sins and all the other Christian topics you can find in these forums?

Usually people posting questions show some signs of wanting to get an answer to their questions. When you post more or less the same question time and time again with minor variations it makes me wonder whether you want an answer or just want to vent. But then you post in ways that suggest you want answers, but reject the answers you get and then start another thread saying more or less the same thing.

It's no different to other topics, which is why people who repeatedly post the same thing on other topics often get asked similar questions regarding their intentions.

If you have such a big issue with the religion mentioned on my profile, fine, I'll change it.

It makes no odds to me what you write on an internet forum, I'm just curious what the deal is when you describe yourself as a Christian and then write so many posts that ultimately say God is some kind of bimbling half-wit who has no idea what he is doing.