Keep Religion OUT of Public Schools!

[Josiah]

@Lees

I want the schools to have full authority to be Christian. To represent Christianity.

But you REFUSE to say WHICH Christianity, WHICH Christian faith. You REFUSE to say.

And you insist this authority belongs specifically to parents and the church - not government. BUT, you insist, government must have "full authority" to do this.


It's illegal in every state to have something in schools without disclosing - in writing - EXACTLY what that is, what will be presented, how it will be presented. Thus must be clearly stated - in writing - and available at the district or school office, available for parents to read BEFORE it is presented by the school. It's a violation of parental rights. But refuse to do this.


You need to say WHAT Christianity, WHAT views will the schools have "full authority" to present, to represent, to teach, to indicate are correct or false. Your persistent HIDING, and DODGING this essential point is absurd. You might have the naive idea that all 400,000,000 Americans have the EXACT SAME idea of God and Christianity, the EXACT SAME Christian views that you have. But you are wrong. Very, very, very wrong. And you may think that all 50 states will come to YOU to find out what Christianity is... and impose what YOU think and believe into its schools. Not likely.

The state would have no authority to dictate doctrine

I agree. All 50 states agree. God gave this authority to PARENTS and the church. Never to the government. But you want the State to do this, while saying it has no authority to do so.

You want schools to present/affirm something - YOU JUST REFUSE TO SAY WHAT. And you say that it has no authority to do what you insist it does. But it can't say whether what it presents is true or false or what it means. It can say the word "GOD" but it can't say what it means by that, what the word means, what is true and false concerning that - because as you keep pointing out, it has no authority to do that, it cannot do that, that belongs to parents and the church, not the government.

the schools don't need to teach doctrine

Here again is your ABSURD idea that the schools will teach God and Christianity but won't teach anything about or related to God and Christianity ("It has no authority to do so"). "Doctrine" is what is presented as true, "heresy" what is false. But you want the schools to present, represent, teach God and Christianity - but not what is true or false about God and Christianity. So, they can chant the word "GOD" but can't say what that word means or signifies (that would involve doctrine and heresy) or if any of that is true or false. So, we'll impose some words (you won't say which) but not say anything about them - what they mean, what they signify, if they are true or false because that would involve saying what's true and false, and you say it can't do that.

I have repeatedly said what the schools represent in Christianity.

You repeatedly REFUSE to say WHAT Christianity, WHICH Christianity, WHICH Christian views and beliefs.

And you insist these State schools won't teach anything about anything about this - not what is true, not what is false, not what is good, not what is bad, not what any of it means or signifies. Saying what it is and means is something only parents and church can do - but you demand the Government does that.

l the while you 'are' willing to force feed him Roman Catholicism. Oh Lutheran PARENT.

1. My son attends a CHURCH school, not a STATE school. And you agree, the CHURCH is to teach religion, to say what is and is not God and Christianity. I agree. The State agrees too. All states do.

2. The Catholic School doesn't HIDE what it presents about God and Christianity the way you do and insist public schools do. All those things I asked you about - that list of stuff - all of which you persistently and completely REFUSE to say if public schools would present, represent, teach, affirm or deny ("doesn't matter" "who cares" "whatever") the Catholic school directly addressed ALL OF THEM, AND DOZENS OF MORE VIEWS. I know what will be taught, affirmed, denied in religion by this Catholic School but you insist the State keep this all a big, dark, complete SECRET. Or your other concept: it will not say ANYTHING about God or Christianity (which is what it does now).

3. IF a parent chooses to place their child in a CHURCH school rather than STATE school, the the parent chooses which church, which views of God and Religion will be presented. But in your proposal, the STATE would present a God and Christianity to my son - I get no choice or voice there - and you won't even say WHAT God or Christianity it would force feed my son.

Only the Christian faith is represented.

WHICH Christian faith, WHICH Christian views and beliefs. You refuse to say.

I have already explained your Bible protest several times. T

You persistently REFUSE to say which Christian Bible public schools will affirm (without affirming anything because you insist it cannot) As we all know, there are dozens of DIFFERENT Christian Bibles with DIFFERENT content. There are DIFFERENT Christian Bibles, as you know and as all public schools know. But you REFUSE to state which of these the public schools would use, WHICH it would affirm as the Word of God (but it can't affirm anything as anything because you insist public schools can't say what is true - doctrine - and what is false - heresy). You just will not say.

The schools recognize the Bible as the Word of God.

You REFUSE to say which of the several Christian Bibles. You REFUSE to say.

You refuse to say WHAT the schools would mean by "Word of God" Your only response is that it cannot say what that means or doean't mean because it can't teach what is true (doctrine) or false (heresy) - only parents and churches can do that. It seems schools would be able to chant the words - but that's it.




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[Lees]

@Josiah, concerning your post #(61).

No, I have explained. So funny. You ask, 'which Christianity' and you opt for Roman Catholicism. You...PARENT....Lutheran. You want to include me in your oxymoronic choice of Romanism to relieve your guilt. Sorry.

Yes, I insist that the State should support the Schools as Christian. The State doesn't need to recognize a denomination as you do...RCC.

I have already said what needs to be represented as Christian in support of the schools by the State. If the State doesn't agree...too bad. They are part of the problem...which they are. What a surprise! And you...who want every doctrine written down in order for parents to agree, testify against yourself that you accept Roman Catholicism. Every doctrine. Oh Lutheran PARENT! Raising your family as Romans.

No, you agree with the cherry you picked to distort what was said. You present half truths...lies. You don't agree at all with me yet you want it perceived that I agree with you. And I don't. You must resort to half truths and lies to build your facade.

No, again, the schools don't teach doctrine. They represent Christianity. Doctrine is left to the churches. Again, the schools don't replace the churches. Do you hear yourself? The schools today do not represent Christianity. They don't represent anything of Christianity. Which means you should rejoice. Instead, you the concerned Lutheran PARENT, pull your kids out of public schools into Roman Catholic schools where they are taught doctrine from the Roman Catholic view. Oxymoron. Closet Roman Catholic?

No, I have demanded that the schools represent Christianity. Not Atheism, or Islam, or Hindu, etc. etc. etc. They represent that Christianity is the only truth concerning God. Strange that that should bother you. The government's role is to support the schools in this representation as they too represent the Christian faith. I guess that bothers you also.

Point is, you willingly force feed your children Roman Catholicism. Which is fine if that is what you agree with. I have no problem with that. My problem is your words contradict your actions. You say God and Christianity should be taken out of public schools and then take your kids out of public schools, where God is not and for the chaos and immoral teaching that are there. And you, a Lutheran, place them in Roman Catholic 'care'? My choice concerns the public schools. The schools should represent Christianity only. That's right, you get no choice in that. The schools represent Christianity only. And for some reason that bothers you. For some reason you opt for Roman Catholicism to avoid that. Strange.

Again, I have already explained many times what the schools position on the Bible is. The Bible represents the only true revealed Word of God on earth. Christianity embraces that. The various interpretations and translations and canons are left to the churches to decide.

The Christian faith. The need to define and explain each denomination is not necessary. That is left to the churches.

Why are you afraid to answer my questions. Do you approve of evolution being taught in schools? Do you approve of atheism taught in public schools? Do you approve of immorality taught in public schools? Would you rather have God and Christianity back in public schools or leave them to the chaos and atheism and immorality that they are now in? Why do you, a Lutheran, not fear your children being forced into Roman Catholicism?

Lees

 

[Josiah]

@Lees

The State doesn't need to recognize a denomination

OBVIOUSLY, UNDENIABLY, if Big Government is going to "support" some Christian views and not others, it is mandatory that it determine WHICH Christian views are to be supported and which not supported. But you persistently, stubbornly REFUSE to say which Christian views public schools will support, represent, present, teach as true and correct (doctrine) and which will be rejected (heresy) YOU REFUSE TO SAY .

The schools represent Christianity. And for some reason that bothers you.

It bothers me because ...

1. We have NO CLUE what Christianity Big Government would support and represent. YOU WON'T SAY. YOU REFUSE TO SAY. You say public schools will teach and support and represent something (doctrine and heresy) but you refuse to say what. Indeed, you insist it has no authority to do this but you demand that it do it anyway. Will these mysterious, undisclosed, hidden views it teaches as true (doctrine) be opposed and against my faith? Will it teach my children the opposite of his parents beliefs? Will it say that my views are wrong (heresy) and my son should obey the faith the State teaches? WE HAVE NO CLUE what these schools would teach - and CALL "God" and "Christianity." You refuse to say. I presented some horrible, horrible heresies to you - condemned as heretical by the great majority of Christians today - and you are just hunky dory with them - just fine, no problem whatever, SURE the State can support, present, defend that. You care about evolution taught as religion (which it isn't, it's taught as science) but not a rip about God or Christ or Salvation or anything. If BIG GOVERNMENT is going to support, affirm, represent, present, teach some Christian views, as you insist, I want to know WHICH views. But you think this just doesn't matter or at least you refuse to say which.


2. The Bible specifically states that PARENTS are to teach religion to their kids. PARENTS. Especially fathers. This is NOT given to the king or state or government - or even to the general public. Your proposal violates Scripture. You want the Government to have a State Religion force fed on MY son - and it WILL contradict my faith at least at some points, telling my son that I'm wrong about God and Christianity at least at points. I want the government to butt out. God gave ME this responsibility. Not you. Not big government. Not the general public.

No, again, the schools don't teach doctrine.

Well, they don't now but you insist that they begin to do. That's your whole point, public schools need to insert God and Christianity into its schools - telling kids what religious views to support, what is true, what to believe (doctrine) - and which (therefore) are false (heresy) and to be rejected.

How can schools support a view without saying what it is and whether it is true or not (no doctrine, no heresy)?

You REFUSE to say. You either want this to be a big, dark, top secret kept (illegally) from parents. OR you don't want them to support or reject ANY view. Arianism is okay. Adoptionism is just ducky with you. Gnosticism is fine. Psilanthropism can be taught to our kids, no problem. Tritheism is GREAT and can be what's taught, you don't care. Jesus is the Savor - or not, who gives a rip? Jesus is the savior or no, Jesus OFFERS it but we have to accept it, that's okay too. Or everyone is saved, no matter if they have faith or not. ALL THOSE are just a tiny few of CHRISTIAN views, taught by Christians, all who insist their ideas are FULLY biblical - American churches teach all those, but all those are also rejected by American Churches. Some of those habe been officially condemned by ecumenical councils - some of them are central foundational doctrines in some American Churches. Some are flat out contradictions of other views. Most are found in American Protestantism today. Public schools CANNOT support or represent anything without choosing WHAT Christian views it will support (that's doctrine) and which to reject (that's heresy) - and you say it can't do that, they have no right or authority to do what you insist they do.

Doctrine is left to the churches.

I agree. Thus schools CANNOT support anything religious as true. I agree, that's the job of churches (and the child's parents).

It's silly to insist that public school support something when you insist they can't say what that something is. That public schools must avoid saying what is true, good, right (doctrine) and can't say what is wrong, false (heresy) BUT they are to support, present, represent, teach - you won't say what, and you can't say what because you hold that public schools aren't permitted to say what is true and what isn't. If it can't say WHAT to support, how can it support it?

They represent that Christianity is the only truth concerning God

Thus teaching doctrine. "Doctrine" is what is held as true, "heresy" what isn't. But you say public schools have no authority to say what is true (and thus what it supports) - yet you insist that's exactly what they do.

And you REFUSE to tell us WHAT Christian views public schools are to represent, support, affirm, present, teach as "truth" and which will not be. You insist public schools declare that Christianity is true (doctrine) but you refuse to say WHAT Christianity, WHAT Christian view sare true and thus it supports, you won't say (and you insist public schools can't either).

Perhaps because you think Christianity believes NOTHING, holds that NOTHING is true, NOTHING is false. A completely empty, void, nothingism - but then there's nothing to support! Or perhaps you hold that truth it just doesn't matter, it just doesn't matter WHAT is said to be "truth," what is supported, when it come to God, Christ, Christianity, salvation, etc. You just don't care... and don't believe schools should either.


Who is going to determine WHICH Christian views will be supported, affirmed, taught in public schools? Let me guess: You?

You say God and Christianity should be taken out of public schools

No, I said Big Government should not teach religion, it needs to KEEP OUT of that. Read the title of the thread.

Because I agree with God and the Bible and public schools: The responsibility, authority and duty to teach religion to our children belongs to PARENTS. Not to the king, not to government, not to you, not to be public. God specifically, particularly stated the child's PARENTS.

The schools should represent Christianity only

WHICH Christianity? WHICH Christian views? You won't say. Evidently, you want this to be kept a big, dark, top (illegal) secret.

I have already explained many times what the schools position on the Bible is.

You haven't even said WHICH Christian Bible would be used.

You said "it" (which "it" - you won't say) would be embraces as "The Word of God" without saying anything about WHAT that means. Different Christians have VERY different ideas of what that means - many used that title but mean VERY different (and at times contradictory) things,
You once wrote about the State putting Bibles into schools - but refused to say WHICH Christian Bible (as you know, there are several DIFFERENT ones, with different content). You evaded that point, too.






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[Lees]

@Josiah, concerning post #(63).

Again, no. The State needs only to support Christianity. It doesn't need to take the place of the churches. The various denominations can determine their own course in Christianity.

No. the schools don't tell any what brand of Christianity. They represent Christianity. The churches determine their own doctrines. The schools support Christianity over other religions. Such as Islam, Hindu, Buddhist, atheism, etc. etc. etc. The schools represent Christianity as the only true faith as revealed by God in the Bible. You act as if the schools are to become churches. They are not. They simply recognize Christianity as the faith of the country, just as the government recognizes Christianity as the faith of the country. And they reject any other faiths.

No, you don't agree...cherry picker....another lie. Schools recognize that Christianity is the only true faith in God as revealed in the Bible. Thus they do represent the truth as opposed to the other false faiths. The Christian faith is what is true and what they represent.

The various views within Christianity are determined by the churches. The schools represent that only Christianity is the true faith.

No, you said 'keep religion out of schools'. That means keep God and Christianity out of schools. But you agree with God and the Bible...you say...yet you pull your kids out of the public schools ...because you agree. Again, you are a walking oxymoron. You don't believe what you are saying but you want others to. You want others to sacrifice their children at the Roman alter as you choose to. You would rather keep the atheism and chaos in public schools so you can offer the Roman sacrifice to them. You fear that if Christianity alone is recognized as the true faith, that in America, Protestants will have the advantage over your Romanism.

I have already said, Christianity. As to the teaching of the various denominations within Christianity, that is up to the churches. Not the schools.

My, my. You say you want the government to butt out. Yet it is the government that forced you out of public schools, based upon their and your view of 'separation of church and state. ' You want the government to butt out, yet you endorse the governments position of 'separation of church and state.'. You don't want the government to butt out. You support them hook, line, and sinker. Why?...because you believe it supports your Romanism.

Again, why are you scared to answer my questions? Do you approve of evolution being taught in schools? Do you approve of atheism being taught in public schools? Do you approve of immorality being taught in public schools? Would you like to see God and Christianity back in public schools, or would you rather leave them in the chaos and immorality and atheism they are now in? And, why do you a Lutheran not fear your children being forced into Romanism? Oh Lutheran PARENT.

Lees

 

[Josiah]

Again, no. The State needs only to support Christianity. The schools don't tell any what brand of Christianity.

So, EVERY Christian view will be supported, affirmed, represented - taught as true (doctrine). Big Government will endorse, support and present every view of every Christian, every Church, every denomination. Everything. They'll ALL have the governments stamp of support, affirmation, doctrine on all these....

Universalism
Sabellianism
Monarchianism
Modalism
Psilanyhropism
Arianisim
Pelagianism
Tritheism
Marcionism
Antidicomarians
Nestorianism
Jesus is 100% God and not a man.
Jesus is 100% man and not God.
Jesus makes salvation possible but you are saved by choosing to accept His offer.
"Decision" theology
Double predestination - both to the saved and the damned.
Anti-paedobaptism
Baptism by immersion only
Satan is not real but a personification of evil.
The Bible contains 82 books of equal normative function.
The Bible is the words of men about God
Abortion is okay.
Same sex marriage is okay and should be blessed by the church.
We are saved by faith + works.
We choose faith.
Catholics worship Mary and thus commit idolatry
Communion, Christ is symbolically present but not physically
Christmas is a pagan holiday and not to be celebrated.
Pentecostalism.
Transubstantiation.
Baptism is essential for salvation, no salvation without it.
Baptism is only an outward sign of an inward faith
Once saved - always saved.
There are 7 Sacraments.
There are no Sacraments.

In your dream, ALL the above views are supported, affirmed, presented, taught as true by some Christians, some American Churches. A lot of them are direct contradictions of each other - but all are supported, as true, all are views taught by some Christians, some churches - as absolutely true, as totally biblical and certainly THE Christian view. So, you want the schools to support ALL of them. And any others.

@Lees

I disagree with every single one of them. All these you insist should be supported by public schools. ALL the above are HERESIES to me and contradict my faith and the faith I teach to my child. Contradict with them. But you insist, the Government will support, present, represent, teach ALL of them. School has an opening devotion - and it could present any or all of these heresies - and expose my son to these horrible, condemnable lies. Yes, of course, they ARE views found in Christianity, in most cases in American Christianity and perhaps American Evangelicalism - but I regard them as heresy, condemnable heresy . And you'd have Big Government, his teachers telling my son that the religion I teach him... the views of our church are wrong because all the above views are right.


@Lees, You are offended by public schools teaching evolution BECAUSE YOU REGARD it as false and it contradicts YOUR view about God. Okay. Well EVERYTHING you say schools should support offends me... all 36 of these views.... they are all HERESIES in my faith... and you want the Government for force feed all these offensive, horrible, heresies to my son as something to be supported, affirmed, taught - incorporated into devotions and prayers and lessons. Ponder that.

your kids out of the public school

Again, yet again, still one more time.... I did NOT "pull my kids out of public school" because they don't teach religion. Did you read the title of this thread? I gave my reasons for not enrolling my son in public schools and NONE of those reasons had a thing to do with it not teaching religion.

I can put my kid in a private, optional CHURCH school (NOT government owned and operated.... NOT public) because churches MAY teach their religion. And this one didn't hide it's teachings like you demand public schools do, it FULLY disclosed EXACTLY everything that would be supported, taught, affirm, done - and what would be condemned, rejected, regarded as heresy. It doesn't teach ANY of the horrible things you insist public schools should support. It disagrees with you that if a Christian holds to a view, ergo it should be supported and presented. It holds that truth matters. And the theology it presents - while not EXACTLY mine - is acceptable to me (I agree with 95% of it, and I can easily explain to my son why we disagree with that 5%).

You say you want the government to butt out. Yet it is the government that forced you out of public schools

... not because they agree with the Bible that the teaching of religion is given to PARENTS. They agree with the Bible on that. And I agree too.

Do you approve of atheism being taught in public schools?

Did you READ the title of this thread? Did you READ any of my posts to you. OBVIOUSLY NOT. It is now illegal for public schools to teach religion and thus it CANNOT teach atheism (it's illegal!!!!!!). IF you can find a state approved textbook that states, "there is no god" then you'd have a point but I won't hold my breath will you look for that textbook. But no - I said I do not want ANY religious views force fed to my child - or anyone else's child. Oh, I'd be MUCH more offended by the views you insist the schools SHOULD support than I would with atheism, my son would KNOW atheistism is a lie... the school might mislead him with some of the many, many HORRIBLE heresies above - all of which you think schools should present, support, affirm, represent.




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[Lees]

So, EVERY Christian view will be supported, affirmed, represented - taught as true (doctrine). YEs, that would be MUCH, MUCH more horrible than what we have now. You want the schools to put the governments stamp of support, affirmation, doctrine on all these....

No, Christianity is represented. Doctrine is left to the churches. Yes, the State must support the schools in their representation of Christianity as the only true faith.

Lees

 

[Lees]

@Josiah, concerning your lengthy edit in post #(65)

Again, you're arguing with yourself, not me. I have said time and time again that the schools don't teach doctrine. The State supports the schools as Christian. In other words, religion is not taken out of the schools. And the only religion represented is Christianity.

No, I am offended by God and Christianity taken out of schools. The result of which is evolution, atheism, immorality, are taught and chaos rules.

No, the schools don't need to teach any doctrine. Just like Christianity should be the only faith represented in our government. Neither are they to teach the churches doctrine. But they represent God and Christianity. And when they pray, they should pray to God in the name of Jesus Christ. And though much of that is being taken out, by people like you, it is still present.

You can put your kid in any school you want. You can teach him anything you want. You have chosen to teach him the Roman faith. And that is fine. It is clear that you don't fear atheism, or evolution, or immorality being taught in public schools. You fear Protestantism would have the advantage, as Protestantism still is the larger faith in America. Thus you advertise for the Roman schools. Odd. Based on your view, you are forcing your kid to be taught all of the Roman faith, every single doctrine, whether true or false.

Strange. If you agree with the government taking God and Christianity out of the schools, then why do you not put your kid in the public schools? That way you wouldn't have to force Catholicism, a faith not of your preference, upon your kid.

Yes I read the title of this thread. Religion (Christianity) is to be kept out of the schools. That is called 'atheism'. You don't need a text book on atheism. You just need to remove God. Thus, the schools can impose atheistic teachings such as 'evolution'. They teach immorality such as the alphabet perverts. (LGBT) All contrary to God.

There is no 'neutral'. When you take God out, atheism, immorality, chaos will rule.

Why are you scared to answer my questions?

1.) Do you approve of atheism being taught in public schools?
2.) Do you approve of evolution of man and the universe being taught in public schools?
3.) Would you rather keep the schools in the chaos they are now in rather than have Christianity back in the schools?
4.) Why do you, a Lutheran, not fear your children being forced into Romanism?

Lees

 

[Albion]

Why are you scared to answer my questions?

1.) Do you approve of atheism being taught in public schools?
2.) Do you approve of evolution of man and the universe being taught in public schools?
3.) Would you rather keep the schools in the chaos they are now in rather than have Christianity back in the schools?
4.) Why do you, a Lutheran, not fear your children being forced into Romanism?

Lees

Unfortunately, none of that ^ squares with the real issue(s).

That is why, I believe, Josiah isn't giving you the "answers" you want. It's impossible for anyone to do that while accurately reflecting the situation prevailing in both the public and Catholic schools and simultaneously also correcting the mistaken assumptions you insist upon making concerning his own views.

 

[Josiah]

I have said time and time again that the schools don't teach doctrine.

@Lees

Correct, and that's partly why your proposal is both silly and impossible.... You have Big Government supporting, representing, teaching, presenting views REGARDLESS of whether they are true or not. It cannot say if a view is true or not - BUT you insist, demand that the Government do exactly what you say it must not do - you insist that it MUST support, present, teach SOME Christian veiws as true (doctrine) and some as false (heresy) - you just don't care WHICH it proclaims as true and false (except for one supported by 77-82% of American Protestants - you demand the government declare THAT one wrong, while insisting the Government cannot and should not declare anything as true (doctrine) or false (heresy) but support EVERY and ALL Christian views (which would include evolution).

Thus the reality that you are offended by evolution being taught as religion (which it;s not) won't be "fixed" by your proposal - the schools would be FORCED under your proposal to teach it as religion because it is a (very common) Christian view that it's correct; you insist the Government CANNOT say whether a view is correct or not (cannot teach doctrine heresy; it has no authority to do that) so it MUST support evolution because it;s a Christian view, a (very common) form of Christianity.





@Lees

You want public schools to impose upon OUR kids what YOU personally hold as "God" and "Christianity" (but refuse to tell us what that is, what those views are except at a couple of points). You don't want something variant or contrary to YOUR own personal religious views supported or represented by public schools. But you don't give a rip if those schools support, present, teach religious views - impose views - on MY kids that are varient and contrary to MY faith, contrary to key views I hold as true and teach my kids; that's okay with you, that's good and appropriate because YOU aren't offended by these things (or more likely, don't even know what they are). YOU want to tell the schools to support and teach according to YOUR faith, YOUR personal religious views, YOU don't want to be offended or troubled by what the school presents, you don't want anything in public schools that you feel contradict YOUR views (whatever they are, you won't say). But the heck with the rest of us.


I've asked you REPEATEDLY who or what is going to decide WHICH Christian views public schools are going to support. And you never will say. Why? I strongly suspect you think that should be YOU. Just you. They must support what YOU do, not support what YOU don't. Not support or represent what you don't believe or find offensive. But it matters NOT what the rest of us Christians believe.... we need to just all bow before YOU as the Pope of the Government.

the schools don't need to teach any doctrine.

Then it cannot teach anything in Christianity as true (that would be doctrine) or anything as false, such as evolution or a gay Jesus ( that would be teaching heresy).

Yes you contradict yourself. You insist the government cannot pick and choose among views held by Christians, it cannot say what is true and what is false (thus teaching doctrine and heresy) BUT you demand it do EXACTLY what you stress it has no authority to do - such as declaring evolution to be wrong but supporting views such as Universalism, Sabellianism, Monarchianism, Modalism, Psilanyhropism, Arianisim, Pelagianism, Tritheism, Marcionism, Antidicomarians, Nestorianism, etc. If there's a Christian view YOU personally don't hold - schools MUST not teach that BUT if there are 36 things I don't hold as true, you insist the schools SHOULD support that. YOU matter. No one else does.

Yes I read the title of this thread. Religion (Christianity) is to be kept out of the schools. That is called 'atheism'.

No. Atheism is a religious view. I don't want religious views presented in public schools. You do.

IF you believe that some unnamed, mysterious public school teaches as true "there is no god" then it's easy, just quote from a state approved textbook that states "there is no god." Or "Atheism is the religion that is correct." But you can't. Because no public school teaches atheism. We all know this. You know it. I know it. NO public school teaches "there is no god." None teaches Atheism. It's illegal in all 50 states.

the schools can impose atheistic teachings such as 'evolution'.

"Evolution" is not a doctrine in Atheism. It's not a religious view at all, it is a current theory in biology, in science. And schools teach it as science, not religion. Again, it would be relevant if you quote from a state-approved science textbook that even mentions God at all, that states "all this happened without God" or "this proves God doesn't exist ." But you won't even try to find that book because we all know it doesn't exist, public schools as they teach this current science theory (supported by 77-82% of American Protestants) say NOTHING about God and thus are not teaching that there is no God. YOU KNOW that NO PUBLIC SCHOOL teaches that evolution shows there is no god, no biology book used in public schools states, "there is no god." Thus, no biology book teaches Atheism (the religious view that there is no god).





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[Josiah]

@Albion@Lees

1.) Do you approve of atheism being taught in public schools?
2.) Do you approve of evolution of man and the universe being taught in public schools?
3.) Would you rather keep the schools in the chaos they are now in rather than have Christianity back in the schools?
4.) Why do you, a Lutheran, not fear your children being forced into Romanism?

Lees throws out these irrelevant things solely to evade everything we point out. Dodge, evasion attempts - nothing more. And I've addressed all of them, he just don't give a rip.

1. Atheism is not taught in public schools in the USA. Proof? Lees will not present even one statement in any state approve textbook in ANY public school in the USA that states, "there is no god" or "atheism is true." He KNOWS it's not currently taught. It's just a diversion ploy. And he wants to suggest I WANT this religious view taught in our schools when my whole point is that I don't want public schools to support ANY religious view.

2. As I've told him repeatedly, evolution is taught as SCIENCE, in SCIENCE classes - not in religion classes. Lees cannot find even one science textbook used ANYWHERE in ANY public school that states, "God had nothing to do with this" or "this proves there is no god' He can't find ANYTHING in this subject that mentions ANY religious view at all - Atheism included. Now, I DO wish public schools would present this as "current science theory" beause that's what it is, but I have nothing against it being taught. It also teaches Math without mentioning any religious view, is that also teaching Atheism? It's a silly, absurd argument - one he knows is absurd - but it's just an evasion attempt.

3. I agree with the Bible (and public schools) that PARENTS have the responsibility and authority to reach religion to their children - NOT Big Government, not the King, not the public, not someone else's parent (like Lees). IMO, Lees imposing HIS religious veiws upon OUR children would just add to the chaos and offense. He supports 36 Christian religious views being presented and supported in public schools that are highly offensive to me, contrary to MY faith - he cares not, he just doesn't give a rip. WE should care that HE is offended by evolution but it just doesn't matter - not a all, not a bit - that I'm offended by 36 views he's okay with and wants the schools to support, represent, teach, include in mandates prayers and devotions, etc.

4. I fear FAR LESS my son agreeing with Catholicism than I do the things Lees supports public schools teaching - things like Arianism, Gnosticism. Tritheism, Adoptionism, Sabellianism, Monarcianism, Nestoruanism, Pelagianism, etc. , etc. I fear Lee's concept of the schools HIDING what it supports and rejects than I do the Catholic School being 100% clear about EXACTLY, PRECISELY what it will teach as true and false. The Catholic school is 100% transparent, Lee wants the schools to keep all this a big, dark, top secret (which as we all know is illegal).


.

 

[Lees]

Unfortunately, none of that ^ squares with the real issue(s).

That is why, I believe, Josiah isn't giving you the "answers" you want. It's impossible for anyone to do that while accurately reflecting the situation prevailing in both the public and Catholic schools and simultaneously also correcting the mistaken assumptions you insist upon making concerning his own views.

No. The questions are relevant to the issue of God and Christianity being forced out of public schools.

Well, you can believe whatever you like. Josiah is scared to answer the questions because they reveal the error of God and Christianity being taken out of public schools.

Lees

 

[Lees]

@Josiah, concerning your post #(69).

No. It's not impossible. Schools don't teach doctrine. They represent the Christian faith.

No. Schools can represent the Christian faith without teaching doctrine. Just like the government does with the Bible and prayer.

No. Atheism is God being removed. No God. Just like what you want with the public schools. You don't want God, Christianity, religion, in the schools. You want atheism, not God in the schools. So, you got want you wanted, which again begs the question, why do you remove your kids out of public schools? The schools are teaching exactly what you want. Yet you run to a Roman Catholic school with God and Christianity represented and 'taught'. Oxymoron.

Evolution is wrong and is a product of atheism, cloaked in the garb of 'science'. Just like the teaching of acceptance of the alphabet perverts. (LGBT) It is a product of atheism.

The schools don't need to support any what you call 'heresies' in the church. They let the churches argue over that. The schools do represent the Christian faith.

The fact that school texts don't mention God when dealing with evolution of man or the universe is a result of atheism. Schools put their faith in science, which is without God. Atheism. It is what you want preached in the public schools. No God. No religion. No Christianity.

So, again.

1.) Do you approve of atheism being taught in public schools?
2.) Do you approve of evolution being taught in public schools?
3.) Would you rather leave the schools in the atheistic, and immoral, condition they are now in or rather have Christianity back in the schools.
4.) Why do you a Lutheran not fear your children being force fed Roman Catholicism?
5.) Why take your kids out of public school, when the public schools represent now, what you want. No God.

Lees

 

[Josiah]

Schools don't teach doctrine.

I know they now don't, but you contradict yourself on whether they should. You say State owned and operated schools SHOULD "support" "present" "represent" "teach" some things as true (doctrine) and some things as false (heresy) you just refuse to say WHAT views they should support as doctrine (true) and which as heresy (false). You just won't say. I presented you with 50 big, huge, major issues in Christianity - all regarded as either doctrine or heresy depending of WHAT Christian you talk to, WHICH church you ask - and you refused to say a word about any of them. You ignored them all.

You have one exception: evolution (which is not even a religious view, it's a science theory). You demand that public school renounce evolution (that science theory supported by 77-82% of American Protestants) THAT view must repudiated that view as wrong (heresy). You don't care about anything else, any other religious view - they can all be supported as doctrine (true) or heresy (false) you don't give a rip.

So, you insist schools support what is true and repudiate what isn't but you also insist schools won't do that, they can't do that, but you demand that they do. You just want to keep totally secret WHICH views theses schools should support and which they should not - you won't say. It's your secret. It seems you don't care (as long as they support YOUR views and reject what YOU do - but you won't say what those are).

Schools can represent the Christian faith without teaching doctrine.

So, you suggest they should SUPPORT the Sabellianistic view of God and the Marcionist and the Monarchianist and the LDS and the Modalist and the Nicene/Athanasian view of God because they are all views of God that exist among Christians and Christian churches. To ypu, it doesn't matter which view is supported and taught (and they are entirely inompatible - often contradictory), all that matters is that the school uses the word "GOD" - what's meant by that is entirely irrelevant, truth is irrelevant when it comes to God, you seem to suggest. They must support ANY idea of "God" that ANY Christian anywhere has come up with. EVERYTHING must be supported.


Yeah, I find that horrific and MUCH, MUCH worse than public schools remaining silent about religious views.

Atheism is God being removed.

Atheism is a religious view that there is no God. It is not taught anywhere in any public school - it is illegal to do so in all 50 states. Which is why you can't find one textbook, one curriculum of even one public school that states "there is not God." You know you can't... you know it's never taught which is why you don't even try to quote any school book or curriculum Because Atheism is not allowed to be taught. It's ILLEGAL.

Your whole point is just laughably silly. IF you take an algebra class.... and the teacher never once mentions God.... you seem to think THEREFORE he is teaching that there is no God, he's teaching the religion of Atheism. THINK. That's illogical and silly.

You don't want God, Christianity, religion, in the schools. You want atheism,

No, I don't want Atheism. READ the title of this thread! I don't want ANY religious views taught in public schools. Including the religion of Atheism. Teaching some State Religion in public schools is YOUR idea, what YOU want. You just won't say WHAT religious views it must support and reject (doctrine and heresy).

1.) Do you approve of atheism being taught in public schools?
2.) Do you approve of evolution being taught in public schools?
3.) Would you rather leave the schools in the atheistic, and immoral, condition they are now in or rather have Christianity back in the schools.
4.) Why do you a Lutheran not fear your children being force fed Roman Catholicism?
5.) Why take your kids out of public school, when the public schools represent now, what you want. No God.

Each answered many times. Again just this morning in post 70.



.

 

[Lees]

@Josiah, concerning post #(73)

Let me go to your last statement, that you answered my questions many times in post #(70). Well, post #(70) is not addressed to me. It's addressed to your bud Albion. So, you answered safely to your bud, and think that means you have answered my questions. Your scared and a coward.

So, answer those questions to me. Just like you try to appeal to others with your thread 'Public Schools of Religion in the U.S.A.', you don't want confrontation. You want to explain your error in hopes no one will confront you, and all will agree with your Roman Catholic preference.

No, I have said schools don't teach doctrine. They represent Christianity. And only Christianity. In other words, God and Christianity needs to be in the schools. You want atheism in the schools. No God. No religion. So the schools are now exactly what you want. Yet you pull your kids out to force the Roman faith upon them.

No. Evolution is based upon faith. It is based upon a denial of God and the Christian faith. Cloaked in the facade of 'science'. It is a product of atheism, no God, which you endorse. Yet you place your kids where God is taught in the Roman schools. Forcing your children to be taught what you a Lutheran should be against. Oxymoron.

No, schools represent Christianity. The churches argue over the correctness of the Christian doctrines. All you are trying to do now is defend your hypocrisy. You claim all religion, no God, no Christianity, is to be allowed in public schools. Yet you move your kids to Roman Catholic schools, a faith you are not part of...you say, where God and religion are taught, to avoid the public schools. Hypocrite. The schools are now just like you want them, yet you move them to God, Christian, teaching school.

That there is no God is what you want in the public schools. God is out of the picture. Everything in the public schools should represent that there is no God, you say. Atheism.

So again, answer my questions.

1.) Do you approve of atheism being taught in the schools?
2.) Do you approve of evolution being taught in the schools?
3.) Would you rather leave the schools in the atheism and immorality they are now in, or have Christianity back in the schools?
4.) Why do you a Lutheran, not fear your kids being force fed Roman Catholicism?
5.) Why take your kids out of public schools when they represent now what you want? No God. Atheism.

Strange: you want your kids force fed Roman doctrine about God, yet you want all other children to be force fed atheism. No God.

Lees

 

[Josiah]

Let me go to your last statement, that you answered my questions many times in post #(70). Well, post #(70) is not addressed to me.

They have been addressed several times. Again, yet again in post 70. You can read, so you can read that.

I have said schools don't teach doctrine

I know. Thus the absurdity of your proposal. You want public schools to SUPPORT some things but only if YOU do (and you won't say what those are) - those are true (doctrine) because they are part of YOUR faith. And you want public schools to REJECT some things but only if YOU do (and you won't say what those views are, except for evolution). What any other Christian believes? You don't give a rip. What other Christians find offensive and contrary to their faith? Sucks to be them.

Here's what's obvious. You want public schools to force feed MY son what YOU, personally, individually think is true (doctrine) - although nothing seems to be something you support except a word (GOD) void of any and all meaning. And you want them to denounce what YOU personally, individually think is false or bad (like evolution). YOU. You think all 50 States will appoint YOU as the Infallible Pope of Public Schools. But what the other millions of parents believe and teach their children - you don't give a rip, you don't care, they have to just accept that YOUR views will be taught to them. Let every other parent be offended by what YOU tell all public schools to support, represent, teach - so what? As long as YOU aren't. It matters ONLY when YOU disagree and are offended by something taught in the public schools. YOU matter. No one else. And you REFUSE to tell us what you'd have public schools support, represent, present, teach. And what you'd have them reject. It's your deep, dark, illegal secret.


You want all Americans to accept that YOU personally believe evolution is a wrong religious idea, contrary to what YOU believe and teach your children, and thus all public schools must repudiate and reject (heresy) that view, they all must NOT support it - because YOU (weirdly) regard it as a religious view and you are offended by it, YOU don't agree with it (although 77-82% of American Protestants do, you just don't care). BUT you don't give a rip, you could care less, that I presented 36 Christian views, BIG, BIG and critical views, that offend me (and millions of other Christians) and contradict my faith and what I teach my son but you don't care, you don't give a rip, sucks to be me. When YOU disagree with a view - THAT matters and schools MUST submit to YOU. When anyone else disagrees with a view - THAT doesn't matter, sucks to be them, it doesn't matter, they have to welcome the schools supporting, presenting, teaching that. They all need to docilicly submit to YOUR views. Only YOU matter. Only YOUR views. And you won't say what those are.


When YOU disagree with a view - it MUST be rejected as false (heresy) but when anyone else disagrees with a view (perhaps MILLIONS of us), it's just hunky dory for the schools to support that. It's HUGE when you disagree with evolution, it's just silly when we disagree with Nestorianism (and at least 35 other big, huge, critical views you feel are okay to support), well.... you are the Pope, we all must submit to you and just realize in your public schools, we are going to be offended, our faith denied, what we reject will be supported. Unless it's something YOU don't like.

You want atheism in the schools.

YOU are the one who wants to put religion into the schools. I don't. You're yet to read the title of this thread.

Evolution is based upon faith.

No, it's not. It's based on a scientific theory that never mentions God AT ALL. The theory is SILENT on the issue, the theory never mentions God - absolutely silent. You have this laughable, silly, illogical idea that if an algebra teacher leads a class for 45 minutes and doesn't say the word "GOD" he therefore is teaching a religion, Atheism. Everyone sees how absurdly silly that is.

atheism, no God, which you endorse.

You just lost all credibility at this website.



.

 

[Lees]

@Josiah, concerning post #(75)

No. My proposal of Christianity and God back in the schools is not absurd. And I have been clear as to how the schools would represent Christianity. Yes, Christianity is my faith, Protestant Christianity, as it is/was America's faith also. Which is why God and Christianity need to be back in the schools. It is clear that what you find offensive is the Protestant faith as opposed to the Roman faith. You would rather leave Americas schools in the atheism and immorality that they are in rather than bring God and Christianity back to the schools. Because you fear the Protestant faith. As you hide your kids in Roman schools where your view of God and Christianity are taught.

Yes, I want God and Christianity back in the schools. Which means they would not teach atheistic evolution, which is a faith. Which means they would not teach acceptance of the (LGBT) community. The schools represent God and Christianity. They should reject atheism just as they reject Islam and Hinduism and Buddhism, etc. etc. etc. They should reject any acceptance of the (LGBT) community as it is teaching immorality contrary to God and Christianity.

Oh yes, millions would be upset just like you who want God out of public schools. Which means it will never happen in America, as America now is today, which is atheistic and secular. Which means the problems and chaos in the schools will only worsen based upon the atheistic doctrine of 'separation of church and state'. Which is what you endorse with your 'God and Christianity out of schools.'

But it cannot last as it is. You cannot remove God and Christianity out of schools in America which is based upon Christianity, and expect peace and order. Which is why you must run to the Roman Church where God and Christ are at least represented. You inject the disease in the patient in removing God. You reject the antidote of God and Christianity back in the schools. Just like water runs down hill, man craves order and peace. Disorder and chaos will only last for a time till something will explode that in someway corrects it.

Yes, evolution is a faith. Atheistic. It is cloaked in 'science' as though that gives it credibility. It is what science believes. It is the faith of science taught to schools as though it were true. As though their faith is true. And yet you accept it into the schools. It is anti-Christian, and you accept it to be taught. And it is only allowed to be taught when God is taken out of public schools as you want.

Credibility? You claim to be Lutheran yet force Catholicism on your kid. You claim to be Christian yet support no God or Christianity in public schools. You claim to be Christian, yet support the atheistic faith of evolution being taught in public schools. You and your wife recognize the chaos that results with God out of the schools, and so abandon them and run to a Roman church school where God is taught. Yet all the while crying for God to be out of public schools.

So, you see why your view of my credibility does not concern me.

Lees

 

[Josiah]

I have been clear as to how the schools would represent Christianity.

No, you have gone to great lengths to persistently, stubbornly REFUSED to state WHAT views you'd have public schools support/present/teach and which they would renounce (doctrine and heresy). You just REFUSE to say, it's your big, dark (illegal) secret. Of the thousands of views Christians hold regarding God and religion, you mention just one (and it's not even a religious veiw but a science theory). You've yet to mention even ONE religious view that you'd have public schools teach as true or false.

I gave some 50 big, huge ones. All religious views (not science or math or music ones) - HUGE, critical religious ones, all found in Christianity, all regarded by some as foundational Christian and fully biblical - and you persistently REFUSE to say anything about them, any of them. Some of these are highly offensive to hundreds of millions of Christians around the world (as you are by a theory in science), countray to their faith and religion, but you don't give a rip. What offends YOU matters and you'd make it illegal for schools to support that, but what millions of other Protestant Christians find horrible and heretical - well, sucks to be us.

You would rather leave Americas schools in the atheism

This is just silly. You keep claiming public schools teach Atheism, but you REFUSE to supply any evidence whatsoever for this charge. Again, it is obvious truth just doesn't matter to you. You charge that all our schools are doing something ILLEGAL - then why don't you take them to court for violating the law? You can't because they aren't. Why don't you quote from some school book that states, "There is no god" or "atheism is true?" Because you can't. Your charge is a lie.

You cannot remove God and Christianity out of schools

You constantly contradict yourself. You claim that some mysterious, unknown form of Christianity is IN the schools but I want to take it OUT.... then you insist it's NOT in the schools and you want to "it" in (you just refuse to say WHAT "it" ). Just one example of constant contradictions on your part. You are very confused.

You claim to be Lutheran yet force Catholicism on your kid.

It's MY choice, as my son's PARENT You want to make it Big Government's choice. I agree with the Bible and public schools that the teaching of religion to children belongs to the PARENTS of that child - NOT big government, not you, not any other parent, not the public but to that child's parents.

And the school he goes to is NOT public, it's a CHURCH school - and you agreed that churches CAN teach religion.

And the school my son attends fully and completely it discloses EVERYTHING, EVERY religious view it will support/teach and every one it will reject - full 100% transparency. You want the public schools to hide all this, keep everything a big, dark, top secret (which of course is illegal in all 50 states), you refuse to say WHAT exactly it will teach and not teach (except when it comes to evolution - which isn't even a religious view).

You and your wife recognize the chaos that results with God out of the school

1. No, again, yet again, still one more time.... we did NOT enroll our son in a public school because it agrees with us that PARENTS have the sole responsibility to teach religion to their own kids, because those schools agree with the Bible on that.

2. Public schools don't currently teach religion. IT'S ILLEGAL for them for do so in all 50 states. You want to change that, you just refuse to say WHAT religion - any horrible, heretical, offensive, awful view is just hunky dory to you as long as the State CALLS it "Christian." You demand public schools don't teach evolution because YOU find it presented a wrong religious view.... but you don't give a rip about hundreds of views YOU'D have the schools support/teach/present that tens of millions of American Christians find offensive and wrong. Only you matter.

run to a Roman church school where God is taught. Yet all the while crying for God to be out of public schools.

A church school is not a public school. You agreed the CHURCH can teach religion.

My church school STATES exactly, fully, completely WHAT it teaches as true (doctrine) and false (heresy). You want public schools to hide this as it's big, dark, top secret. You REFUSE to say exactly WHAT views public schools would support and not support (except evolution), and when I presented dozens of horrible, disgusting, heresies that tens of millions of American Christians repudiate - you just don't care, they all will be supported by public schools; they will support EVERYTHING, ANYTHING as long as it slaps a "This is Christian" label on it. Except evolution.



.

 

[Albion]

It is clear that what you find offensive is the Protestant faith as opposed to the Roman faith.

Untrue.

You would rather leave Americas schools in the atheism and immorality that they are in rather than bring God and Christianity back to the schools.

Untrue. The fact that it's illegal is what governs the parent's choices at present.

Whether any of us would prefer some sort of old-time religion doesn't change the fact that public schools at present are all forbidden by law to teach it.

Because you fear the Protestant faith.

Again, there's no evidence that this claim is true.

As you hide your kids in Roman schools where your view of God and Christianity are taught.

Another accusation made without any basis.

Oh yes, millions would be upset just like you who want God out of public schools.

Yet another claim that's without substance.

Which is what you endorse with your 'God and Christianity out of schools.'

False.

You cannot remove God and Christianity out of schools in America which is based upon Christianity, and expect peace and order. Which is why you must run to the Roman Church where God and Christ are at least represented. You inject the disease in the patient in removing God.

And that doesn't even make sense.

You reject the antidote of God and Christianity back in the schools.

Of course, you haven't been able to show us anything that substantiates this charge.

Yes, evolution is a faith. Atheistic...And yet you accept it into the schools.

He never has said that he accepts it, if by that you mean to say he approves of it (which appears to be the point of your allegation).

So, you see why your view of my credibility does not concern me.

Lees

Yes. We do see why the misinformation you profess is important to you, whether or not you actually believe it.

Having suspicions and voicing them is one thing. Having them and being able to back them up (which isn't the case here) is another. But repeatedly making an accusation for which you are either unable or unwilling to show any basis is something that cannot advance any discussion or "win" any argument.

You probably will reply to this by saying that, as far as you are concerned, we can believe whatever we want...or else that the absence of any basis for your claims doesn't concern you. I've noticed, though, that every time those claims have been debunked you've cared enough to go right ahead and repeat them.

 

[Lees]

@ Josiah concerning post #(77)

Yes, I have gone to great lengths to show that Christianity and God needs to be back in the schools. And Christianity represented does not need to address any and all doctrines within Christianity. That is left to the church.

Your view based upon 'separation of church and state' is an absolute lie. The purpose of 'separation of church and state' was to protect the Church from the state. The Church, God and Christianity, must be involved in the State, to influence the State, as the American State is based upon Christianity, and Protestant Christianity at that. Thus your real reason for God out of schools surfaces. And just as the American government is based upon Christianity, so also the public schools should represent Christianity. Thus you still have remnants of Christianity still represented in the government, but the government does not teach church doctrines. But it should represent only the Christian faith, just like schools should.

Well, yes, your view sucks. Using your words.

Oh yes, the schools are doing what is legal which is keeping God and Christianity out of schools. But that legality is based upon the lie of 'separation of church and state'.

No, your problem is your cherry picking. What I said was 'you can't take God and Christianity out of the schools and expect peace and order'. In other words, the chaos and disorder you find in the schools are a result of God and Christianity haven been taken out.

Well, yes, it's your choice to force Roman Catholicism upon your kid. You send him wherever you want. But, you seem to ignore the fact that it's not your choice to force millions of others into a disorderly anti-Christian environment where atheism and immorality are taught. You make a big deal about 'your choice for your kid'. but want to force others into something you try and run from. Oxymoronic.

More cherry picking. You and your wife recognize the chaos that abounds in the public schools which is a result of God and Christianity taken out, and you run to a Roman church school, where God and Christ are represented. In other words, you want God out of the schools, but you don't want your kid to have to pay the price for that. Let everyone else's kids pay. As you continue to preach your gospel of God and Christianity needs to be out of the schools. Oxymoronic. And rather cowardly. Your words contradict your actions.

Lees

 

[Albion]

@ Josiah concerning post #(77)

Yes, I have gone to great lengths to show that Christianity and God needs to be back in the schools.

Well, you've said it many times.

Your view based upon 'separation of church and state' is an absolute lie. The purpose of 'separation of church and state' was to protect the Church from the state.

What you must be missing is that the teaching of religion, at least of conventional religion, is not possible in the public schools at present, and that's because of court rulings.

We do not need to sympathize with those rulings. The effect is what it is.

The question then is not whether any of us would like schools to be able to teach whatever religious values any of us would approve of, but what a Christian parent's choices are at present. And "at present" is an important part of the issue since talking about a campaign aimed at someday returning the public schools to a previous condition (see below) does nothing for the parent of an elementary school child of today who has to make a decision where the child will be enrolled this coming school year and a few more thereafter.

The Church, God and Christianity, must be involved in the State, to influence the State, as the American State is based upon Christianity, And just as the American government is based upon Christianity, so also the public schools should represent Christianity.

Oh yes, the schools are doing what is legal which is keeping God and Christianity out of schools. But that legality is based upon the lie of 'separation of church and state'.

If you wish, but the ability of the public schools to teach "God and Christianity" still is what it is. Not permitted.

It does no parent any good to insist that if all people of good will were to start working on the problem through the courts and elections for school board members, etc., things could be changed back in the coming years to what they once were.

No, your problem is your cherry picking. What I said was 'you can't take God and Christianity out of the schools and expect peace and order'. In other words, the chaos and disorder you find in the schools are a result of God and Christianity haven been taken out.

Once again, we may agree on that. But is still doesn't change anything that is relevant to where a Christian parent could, today, send his child for an education.

But, you seem to ignore the fact that it's not your choice to force millions of others into a disorderly anti-Christian environment where atheism and immorality are taught.

That's true. It's the government's choice, and if we do not care for the government's choice of schools, parochial schools or homeschooling are the only real alternatives.