Belief in God

[Jazzy]

Do you think that belief in God is natural or something that has to be learned?

 

[Messy]

It has to be learned.

 

[Lamb]

It's supernatural. We can't believe in God unless He first gives us faith (by His grace).

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

It's supernatural. We can't believe in God unless He first gives us faith (by His grace).

Is that idea supported by the Bible?

 

[Josiah]

Do you think that belief in God is natural or something that has to be learned?

Neither.

Faith is "the gift of God" as the Bible states.



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[Lamb]

Is that idea supported by the Bible?

Ephesians 2:8–9 “By grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.”

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

Ephesians 2:8–9 “By grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.”

Post Page

biblebrodown.com

 

[Ammi]

Belief in God has been given to me...a gift.

 

[Lees]

Post Page

biblebrodown.com

Oh gee... a link. Why? Because you don't know anything. You just supply a link. No comment on your part...because you're scared to make one.

Well, (Eph. 2:8-9) means just what it says. Faith is a gift from God. We who have it, have been given it from God.

Which is also supported by (Matt. 16:17)

What now? May as well ask...'why'.

Lees

 

[Josiah]

Post Page

biblebrodown.com

From the site,

"A neuter pronoun may also be used to refer to a phrase or summarize a thought. This seems to be the best solution in Ephesians 2:8. Touto refers back to the entire phrase te gar chariti este sesosmenoi dia tes pisteos (“for by grace you have been saved through faith”). Therefore, salvation, which occurs by means of the grace of God when a person believes, is what is referred to by kai touto ouk ex hyman (“and this not of yourselves”). This position is further supported by the parallelism between ouk ex hymon (“and this not of yourselves”) in 2:8 and ouk ex ergon (“not of works”) in 2:9. The latter phrase would not be meaningful if it referred to pisteos (“faith”). Instead, it clearly means that salvation is “not of works.” Therefore, these two clauses refer back to the introductory clause of 2:8 and the entire salvation experience.

The Greek isn't absolute matter-of-fact, but the evidence of the Greek within the verse, in context of the rest of Paul's writings, and the rest of scripture, is in support of "this" referring to salvation.

For by grace you are saved, through faith, and this [salvation] is not from yourselves, [salvation] is the gift of God; [salvation] is not from works [of the law], so that no one can boast."

@LucianHodoboc

This is essentially what I was taught (I don't know koine Greek). The "THIS" refers back to the whole clause, "you have been saved through faith." It not ONLY refers to the faith or ONLY to the justification but to both, the whole. It's entirely interconnected - and the whole is "by grace" and this is in keeping with "not of yourselves but the gift of God."

This conforms with many other Scriptures that also indicate that justification in total (including the faith apprehension of such) is by grace and is the work of God - not something we do.




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[Lees]

Do you think that belief in God is natural or something that has to be learned?

Belief in God is natural to the believer. It is totally unnatural to the unbeliever.

Belief is never learned. God opens our eyes. (Matt. 16:17) Learning and more light comes after one believes.

Ignorance and more darkness comes after continual rejection.

Lees

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

Well, (Eph. 2:8-9) means just what it says. Faith is a gift from God.

It doesn't say that though. Faith is a feminine noun, while the pronoun used by Paul is neutral.

What now? May as well ask...'why'.

Well, excuse me for questioning a religion that demands everything from me while offering only promises in return.

 

[Lees]

It doesn't say that though. Faith is a feminine noun, while the pronoun used by Paul is neutral.


Well, excuse me for questioning a religion that demands everything from me while offering only promises in return.

No. ( Eph. 2:8-9) does say what it says. Faith is a gift from God.

So what? What does the 'feminine noun' and the pronoun used by Paul matter?

Christianity demands nothing from you. You don't believe. Why should Christianity demand or expect anything from you?

So yes, excuse you. Your excused.

Lees

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

So what? What does the 'feminine noun' and the pronoun used by Paul matter?

Are you genuinely asking me why grammar matters in understanding a written text?

 

[Lamb]

Post Page

biblebrodown.com

That link suggests things stating "could" or "may" but it's not definitive, and you know why? Because it doesn't take into consideration the other things about God and His word that lead up to why faith is a gift FROM HIM. The entirety of the Bible is God providing what we need.

 

[Ammi]

I think that people may come from different perspectives. I recently learned that most people hear the gospel about 20 times before they respond to it. This surprised me since I responded the first time I heard it. As long as they end up in the kingdom, it's good.

 

[Lees]

Are you genuinely asking me why grammar matters in understanding a written text?

I am asking you what I asked. You made the statement of a feminine noun and Paul's use of a pronoun changing the meaning of (Eph. 2:8-9).

So, explain exactly how it does that.

Give your 'translation' of (Eph. 2:8-9).

Lees

 

[Albion]

I think that people may come from different perspectives. I recently learned that most people hear the gospel about 20 times before they respond to it.

I don't doubt it. God has a way of working over the course of time to achieve his will. That's evident from any reading of the Bible.

What I'd be interested to know is how many people have a brainstorm of some sort or think they've heard the voice of God audibly, feel called, and later drift away after that first rush has cooled. Quite a few, I'd guess.

 

[Lamb]

I think that people may come from different perspectives. I recently learned that most people hear the gospel about 20 times before they respond to it. This surprised me since I responded the first time I heard it. As long as they end up in the kingdom, it's good.

Some types of clay take longer than others

 

[Josiah]

From the site,





@LucianHodoboc

This is essentially what I was taught (I don't know koine Greek). The "THIS" refers back to the whole clause, "you have been saved through faith." It not ONLY refers to the faith or ONLY to the justification but to both, the whole. It's entirely interconnected - and the whole is "by grace" and this is in keeping with "not of yourselves but the gift of God."

This conforms with many other Scriptures that also indicate that justification in total (including the faith apprehension of such) is by grace and is the work of God - not something we do.




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@Lucian Hodoboc you "liked" this. Perhaps that means you agree.

IF so, then you agree the verse states that faith is "the gift of God" and "by grace" and "not of yourselves."

Yup.



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@Lees @Lamb