Sinners Prayer

[Romanos]

What are your thoughts on the concept of this?

 

[Messy]

It's a great tool to get people saved. I got saved after I prayed it. But they shouldn't say just live like the devil, but just say this prayer and it's fine.

 

[Albion]

It's a great tool to get people saved. I got saved after I prayed it. But they shouldn't say just live like the devil, but just say this prayer and it's fine.

Yeah, there's nothing actually wrong about the Sinner's Prayer itself. New believers sometimes do need to be helped along slowly and carefully. We might say "'led by the hand.'' And we recognize that churches which employ the Sinner's Prayer do not stop with the convert mouthing these words, but that's only the starting point of a journey that the church will help with also.

And yet, many of us do feel uneasy about instructing people to say exactly what is put into their mouths like that when it comes to them making a sincere, personal, voluntary act like professing allegiance to the true God.

The reason for the uneasiness felt by longtime Christians concerns this prayer seeming almost to be artificial, despite the wording and meaning.

 

[Josiah]

The problem" with the Sinner's Prayer is that saying it is promoted as a way to save ourselves... "SAY this and you will be saved." So the point isn't Christ, isn't the Cross, isn't the Empty Tomb... it's YOU doing something. Self saves self by what self does.

Now, it's true, that a saved person, a person with the gift of faith, a person with the gift of spiritual life... that one will profess his/her faith and confess his/her sins, so "the sinner's prayer" might be very appropriate for one who HAS BEEN saved, but it is not a means for self to save self (making self the Savior, Jesus at most a possibility-maker, a helper, maybe even PART savior - the part that actually doesn't save anyone).



.

 

[Messy]

The problem" with the Sinner's Prayer is that saying it is promoted as a way to save ourselves... "SAY this and you will be saved." So the point isn't Christ, isn't the Cross, isn't the Empty Tomb... it's YOU doing something. Self saves self by what self does.

Now, it's true, that a saved person, a person with the gift of faith, a person with the gift of spiritual life... that one will profess his/her faith and confess his/her sins, so "the sinner's prayer" might be very appropriate for one who HAS BEEN saved, but it is not a means for self to save self (making self the Savior, Jesus at most a possibility-maker, a helper, maybe even PART savior - the part that actually doesn't save anyone).



.

And how did they get saved? The reformed hear the Word since they're a kid. They do confession. The sinner's prayer is for someone who has no clue. I was blind and full of hate. I got convinced that God existed and thought that was that. A believer believes that God exists. But I also had the idea that you had to go to a church, so I did that. Work nr. 2. Baaaad! You may not do works. That man preached for months,but it didn't dawn on me that I had to ask God to forgive my sins. I was blind. I didn't understand. My brother had a Gideons Bible with a sinner's prayer in it, so I prayed that and the hate was gone. I was an unsympathetic teen girl and us besties hated each other and gossipped about each other and after I prayed that (I didnt even feel guilty about hating them. I thought I was in my right) then I could hug them and the hate was gone. I didn't do that myself.

 

[Albion]

And how did they get saved? The reformed hear the Word since they're a kid. They do confession. The sinner's prayer is for someone who has no clue.

That may be so. However, it's also true (as Josiah pointed out) that SOME of these events that feature the Sinner's Prayer are accompanied by urgings from some minister who's conducting the service for penitents to recite the Sinner's Prayer and, as a result of them doing so, be guaranteed salvation.

Most Christians would agree that this part, when it's included, is in error. It's defective theology.

 

[Josiah]

That may be so. However, it's also true (as Josiah pointed out) that SOME of these events that feature the Sinner's Prayer are accompanied by urgings from some minister who's conducting the service for penitents to recite the Sinner's Prayer and, as a result of them doing so, be guaranteed salvation.

Most Christians would agree that this part, when it's included, is in error. It's defective theology.

I agree.

It's often framed as "If you say this, you therefore will be saved." That's the problem. Self doesn't save self, self is not the savior (that job is taken).


.

 

[Ammi]

When a church worker read John 3:16 to me, I believed it instantly. I was led in the sinner's prayer. It helped me understand things. Sure, I said someone else's words, but they quickly became mine. It was hearing the word, together with the work of the Holy Spirit, that caused me to believe.
At the time, I thought Jesus was the Christmas baby and had something to do with the Easter bunny.

 

[Albion]

When a church worker read John 3:16 to me, I believed it instantly. I was led in the sinner's prayer. It helped me understand things. Sure, I said someone else's words, but they quickly became mine. It was hearing the word, together with the work of the Holy Spirit, that caused me to believe.
At the time, I thought Jesus was the Christmas baby and had something to do with the Easter bunny.

You prayed the Sinner's Prayer, in which the person professes his faith...and that helped you to believe/come to faith...at a later time??

Then what is it about the Sinner's Prayer that was important?

It would seem, from your testimony, that it was John 3:16 (and other Bible lessons) that moved you towards faith.

 

[Josiah]

When a church worker read John 3:16 to me, I believed it instantly. I was led in the sinner's prayer. It helped me understand things. Sure, I said someone else's words, but they quickly became mine. It was hearing the word, together with the work of the Holy Spirit, that caused me to believe.
At the time, I thought Jesus was the Christmas baby and had something to do with the Easter bunny.

IMO, as a profession of faith, it's fine (and that seems to be what you did).

What often happens is that it's presented as a means to be saved, how one saves himself. Therein lies the problem.


.

 

[Ammi]

You prayed the Sinner's Prayer, in which the person professes his faith...and that helped you to believe/have faith later on??

Then what is it about the Sinner's Prayer that was important?

It would seem, from your testimony, that it was John 3:16 (and other Bible lessons) that moved you towards faith.

It was the word and the Spirit that deposited faith in my heart. It was all new to me. I wasn't even looking for God. I was only in church to stop someone from pestering me to go. I'd never heard about sin and repentance and confession. The prayer taught me some things. It's been 50 years, so I'm struggling to recall the details.
A guy read John 3:16 to me. I then saw in front of me a set of curtains. A hand holding a sword thrust through the curtains and plunged the sword into my belly. I instantly believed it was true deep within me. I've never forgotten that, and I've never stopped believing it.
The words of the prayer were derived from scripture. In my understanding, the words are spoken so one can repeat them. Then one repeats them. Then the word is believed in the heart. We say the word so that we will believe it, to get to the place where we say it because we do believe it.
"8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." - Romans 10: 8-10 NKJV

 

[Albion]

A guy read John 3:16 to me. I then saw in front of me a set of curtains. A hand holding a sword thrust through the curtains and plunged the sword into my belly. I instantly believed it was true deep within me. I've never forgotten that, and I've never stopped believing it.

The words of the prayer were derived from scripture. In my understanding, the words are spoken so one can repeat them. Then one repeats them. Then the word is believed in the heart. We say the word so that we will believe it, to get to the place where we say it because we do believe it.

Thank you for indulging me with that explanation. I'm sorry that I apparently am not following along with it.

At the start, it sounds as though you believed as a result of hearing the word of God . But you follow that by saying that the word is believed thanks to some other person reciting the Sinner's Prayer to you, and having you repeat it. The second of those two would seem to make the prayer NOT be one's own profession of faith, but only a part of a ritual by which a new member "get(s) to the place where" he can recite the prayer in the conviction that he's now saved.

I recognize that there are a number of different versions of the Sinner's Prayer, with some of them stating that the speaker is already saved, while others do not include that.

 

[Ammi]

Sigh.

 

[Ammi]

IMO, as a profession of faith, it's fine (and that seems to be what you did).

What often happens is that it's presented as a means to be saved, how one saves himself. Therein lies the problem.

We're saved by faith in what Christ did.

 

[Lamb]

We're saved by faith in what Christ did.

Exactly. God isn't waiting for us to say a sinners prayer first before He does something.

 

[Messy]

We're saved by faith in what Christ did.

Yes and we can't wait apathetic until God does everything, like they teach in the extreme Dutch reformed churches. They go to church 60 years and still don't know if they are elected and have to wait until God makes them feel remorseful enough for their sins. My mom was raised in a reformed church and when my brother and I all of a sudden went to a pentecostal church she came to check if we were in a cult and stayed. She said that before that she was christian, she believed in God, but she did not have a personal relationship with Him. Maybe it was because of the baptism in the Spirit? I don't know.

It's good that Peter didn't know that it was forbidden to do anything, cause it makes you a bozo co savior. Co savior lol. Such nonsense. At least call the one who prayed their lungs out and shared the Gospel a cosavior then, although they only watered and planted, but the one who says Lord forgive me, that's total nonsense to call that cosaving.

10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’ 13 And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other;

The bozo tax collector was doing a good work cosaving himself apparently. I thought the pharisee was the one trusting in his own ability to do good works.


37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?”

38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the [k]remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”

 

[Odë:hgöd]

.
● Matt 22:14 . . For many are called, but few are chosen.

The Greek word translated "called" is kleetoi, which basically means invited.

Well; in my judicious estimation, it would be wise to RSVP the invitation just to
make sure we get chosen.

I would suggest finding a private place to pray: anywhere quiet away from people
will do.

Cover your face with your hands, it will give you a sense of connection; and under
your breath, share with God your concerns; tell Him you're worried: you know
you're a sinner and will likely never be any different. Then tell Him you've heard His
son died for the sins of the world. Tell Him you'd like to take advantage of His son's
death for your own sins.

* Be sure to thank Him for His time. It won't make any difference but God does
appreciate courtesy.

Buen Camino
Pleasant Journey
_

 

[Lamb]

.
● Matt 22:14 . . For many are called, but few are chosen.

The Greek word translated "called" is kleetoi, which basically means invited.

Well; in my judicious estimation, it would be wise to RSVP the invitation just to
make sure we get chosen.

I would suggest finding a private place to pray: anywhere quiet away from people
will do.

Cover your face with your hands, it will give you a sense of connection; and under
your breath, share with God your concerns; tell Him you're worried: you know
you're a sinner and will likely never be any different. Then tell Him you've heard His
son died for the sins of the world. Tell Him you'd like to take advantage of His son's
death for your own sins.

* Be sure to thank Him for His time. It won't make any difference but God does
appreciate courtesy.

Buen Camino
Pleasant Journey
_

RSVP? That's modern thinking. We don't "make sure we get chosen". We don't have that power. God's salvation is completely His doing anyone who ever felt compelled to pray to Him for salvation, already had it by grace through faith.

 

[Albion]

It's never a good idea to attempt to negotiate with God, to flatter him, or hope to "strike a bargain" with him.

 

[Messy]

RSVP? That's modern thinking. We don't "make sure we get chosen". We don't have that power. God's salvation is completely His doing anyone who ever felt compelled to pray to Him for salvation, already had it by grace through faith.

What did they have? Faith because they heard the Word and it fell in good earth. Faith to get saved. They were not saved. The tax collector was not justified before he prayed. He did have faith though and he used it or it worked and produced fruit. The parable of the good soil. What work does the good soil do itself? The seed just becomes a tree with fruit. Someone waters it. There was a sower. God gave the strength to grow. Then why is it a sin to tell people to pray the sinner's prayer? Then not only pick this one thing,but also don't go to church, don't pray for souls to get saved, don't share the Gospeland don't baptize your kids, but like the old Dutch reformed wait apathetic or don't make a fuzz about it, cause God did it anyway.
What I find the most weird is that even Ray Comfort is against it. I thought he was evangelical. No the sinner's prayer is bad according to him. And for the rest he's very good and shares the Gospel. That's so weird.
A lot of people got saved after they prayed it. It's just if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe with your heart that God raised Him from the dead you will be saved. But because of one extreme of the do nothing stay apathetic preachers you get the other extreme. Just pray this magic prayer and you're saved. When I was in a mental institution there was a guy who was addicted to coke, pot and alcohol. He was there to get help with it and porn. He just said that to everyone. It was a nut house after all. So I gave him the sinner's prayer and he prayed it and was happy, but I was nuts, just broke up with my ex and there was nothing else. No preaching about sin and repentance, no help to get rid of the drugs and porn, just the sinner's prayer. No follow up. No church. I took him to one church meeting. He said to me later: the Holy Spirit is a goner, meaning He doesn't stay. He just kept keeping drugs, kept drinking and kept watching porn. I wasn't even saved anymore myself. I started a relationship with a fellow patient. I was also on drugs, although medical drugs and living in sin. But my BIL's dad had been protestant and they wanted nothing to do w the church anymore and God and left for decades and now he had cancer and was dying, so I said to my dad: Ask him when I can come, so I can share the Gospel with him. And my dad, who then wasn't even christian, said: Ehm you are in a crazy house. Those people think you are crazy. They don't want you to come over. Oh. Okay. I'll send a card then. So I sent him a card. Hi BIL's dad how are you doing? I pray you get healed. Oh hey. Don't forget to arrange your ticket to heaven. Just pray God forgive my sins and come into my heart. Greetings Messy
My sister said that she was with him when he died and she isn't christian yet. He asked her about my card on his death bed, if he should do that. She said: yes yes go search that bright tunnel and that light. Ray Comfort may say what he wants, but he's wrong. Steve Hill got used by God and loads and loads of people got saved and he always used the sinner's prayer.
And Ian McCormack, atheist stung by a box jelly fish, lived in sin. His mom taught him as a kid that heshould pray from his heart if he was ever in trouble. He was dying in an ambulance. He didnt know if there was a God. There were thousands of gods in Asia. He said: If there is a God help me to pray. He saw the texts from the Our Father and prayed that and forgave the people who left him to die, refused to help and mocked him and then he saw Jesus and heaven and Jesus said: the prayer in the ambulance saved your life. He could chose if he went to heaven or went back. He wanted to go back for his mom, cause she would otherwise think he was in hell.

Romans 10

whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved

(not was already saved)

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.