Sinners Prayer

[Messy]

Thorben Sondergaard is also against the sinner's prayer. I get his reasoning. He says: it's not Biblical. Biblical is repent and be baptized. Yes but what if you're in a church that only baptizes a few times a year? Are you then all the time not saved until you get baptized? No hope for the robber on the cross? But yes better tell people to repent and get baptized than just: pray after me, but why not both and what about those who are alone on their deathbed and have a few moments left. So I say yay to the sinner's prayer, as long as it's not used in false grace teaching. Live like the devil and just say a prayer and it's fine and just keep living like you always did.

 

[Lamb]

What did they have? Faith because they heard the Word and it fell in good earth. Faith to get saved. They were not saved. The tax collector was not justified before he prayed. He did have faith though and he used it or it worked and produced fruit. The parable of the good soil. What work does the good soil do itself? The seed just becomes a tree with fruit. Someone waters it. There was a sower. God gave the strength to grow. Then why is it a sin to tell people to pray the sinner's prayer? Then not only pick this one thing,but also don't go to church, don't pray for souls to get saved, don't share the Gospeland don't baptize your kids, but like the old Dutch reformed wait apathetic or don't make a fuzz about it, cause God did it anyway.
What I find the most weird is that even Ray Comfort is against it. I thought he was evangelical. No the sinner's prayer is bad according to him. And for the rest he's very good and shares the Gospel. That's so weird.
A lot of people got saved after they prayed it. It's just if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe with your heart that God raised Him from the dead you will be saved. But because of one extreme of the do nothing stay apathetic preachers you get the other extreme. Just pray this magic prayer and you're saved. When I was in a mental institution there was a guy who was addicted to coke, pot and alcohol. He was there to get help with it and porn. He just said that to everyone. It was a nut house after all. So I gave him the sinner's prayer and he prayed it and was happy, but I was nuts, just broke up with my ex and there was nothing else. No preaching about sin and repentance, no help to get rid of the drugs and porn, just the sinner's prayer. No follow up. No church. I took him to one church meeting. He said to me later: the Holy Spirit is a goner, meaning He doesn't stay. He just kept keeping drugs, kept drinking and kept watching porn. I wasn't even saved anymore myself. I started a relationship with a fellow patient. I was also on drugs, although medical drugs and living in sin. But my BIL's dad had been protestant and they wanted nothing to do w the church anymore and God and left for decades and now he had cancer and was dying, so I said to my dad: Ask him when I can come, so I can share the Gospel with him. And my dad, who then wasn't even christian, said: Ehm you are in a crazy house. Those people think you are crazy. They don't want you to come over. Oh. Okay. I'll send a card then. So I sent him a card. Hi BIL's dad how are you doing? I pray you get healed. Oh hey. Don't forget to arrange your ticket to heaven. Just pray God forgive my sins and come into my heart. Greetings Messy
My sister said that she was with him when he died and she isn't christian yet. He asked her about my card on his death bed, if he should do that. She said: yes yes go search that bright tunnel and that light. Ray Comfort may say what he wants, but he's wrong. Steve Hill got used by God and loads and loads of people got saved and he always used the sinner's prayer.
And Ian McCormack, atheist stung by a box jelly fish, lived in sin. His mom taught him as a kid that heshould pray from his heart if he was ever in trouble. He was dying in an ambulance. He didnt know if there was a God. There were thousands of gods in Asia. He said: If there is a God help me to pray. He saw the texts from the Our Father and prayed that and forgave the people who left him to die, refused to help and mocked him and then he saw Jesus and heaven and Jesus said: the prayer in the ambulance saved your life. He could chose if he went to heaven or went back. He wanted to go back for his mom, cause she would otherwise think he was in hell.

Romans 10

whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved

(not was already saved)

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Confessing with your mouth, means you're already professing what you believe. It's not to gain something new.

 

[Albion]

Thorben Sondergaard is also against the sinner's prayer. I get his reasoning. He says: it's not Biblical. Biblical is repent and be baptized. Yes but what if you're in a church that only baptizes a few times a year?

You'd need to find a better church.

Are you then all the time not saved until you get baptized? No hope for the robber on the cross? But yes better tell people to repent and get baptized than just: pray after me, but why not both and what about those who are alone on their deathbed and have a few moments left. So I say yay to the sinner's prayer, as long as it's not used in false grace teaching.

I think the issue may be the so-called Sinner's Prayer itself.

You outlined some reasons for believing that salvation comes with a change of heart and making a commitment, etc., but then added "So I say yay to the Sinner's Prayer."

To begin with, there actually is no "Sinner's Prayer," if we mean some particular prayer that all can recognize. There are a number of different versions of this item made up by different advocates of using such an aid, and based somewhat upon Scripture. But there's nothing special about any of them.

What matters is conversion, openly affirming one's faith in the Lord, and so on, regardless of the words used. We all should recognize that what is necessary is to be oneself, sincere, and not just parroting some lines that some another person directed you to speak and, to make matters worse, might also have implied that going through this special ritual would (or did) make salvation possible.

 

[Messy]

You'd need to find a better church.

I think the issue may be the so-called Sinner's Prayer itself.

You outlined some reasons for believing that salvation comes with a change of heart and making a commitment, etc., but then added "So I say yay to the Sinner's Prayer."

To begin with, there actually is no "Sinner's Prayer," if we mean some particular prayer that all can recognize. There are a number of different versions of this item made up by different advocates of using such an aid, and based somewhat upon Scripture. But there's nothing special about any of them.

What matters is conversion, openly affirming one's faith in the Lord, and so on, regardless of the words used. We all should recognize that what is necessary is to be oneself, sincere, and not just parroting some lines that some another person directed you to speak and, to make matters worse, might also have implied that going through this special ritual would (or did) make salvation possible.

Yes the words don't matter, but it is not bad to use some form of sinner's prayer. One guy got saved. His friend was feeding the rabbits at night and wanted to get saved too. He said you have to say Matthew whatever out loud, cause that's how I got saved and he did that and got saved.
We had a comedian. She went to a witch, who told her to not use medicines and she had cancer and she died. She wasn't saved. I was on a holiday. When I heard it I blamed myself because I was lazy, having a holiday instead of praying for her to get saved all day and I thought she didn't make it. Then later I heard that there was a catholic hospital pastor who went to her before she died, talked to her about God and she said: Jesus! Yes Jesus! Anyone who calls upon the Name of the Lord will be saved. The form or exact words don't matter.

 

[Messy]

Confessing with your mouth, means you're already professing what you believe. It's not to gain something new.

Yes but you do have to ask and knock if you want the door to open for you. God will not go against someone's will. He can't save someone who does not want Him. He can bring them to that point, like Nebukadnesar and Saul, but you have to cooperate.

 

[Odë:hgöd]

.
The letter to Hebrews reminds the Jews that there are time limits on some of the
things God's offers. Moses' people refused to enter the promised land when He
and God urged them too. When they changed their minds and assayed to enter
later on, God wouldn't let them.

The thing is; it's best to answer God's call when it's heard rather than put off
responding till some other time because there may never come another time. This
is something that no one should take for granted.

So: by what means might someone be called? Well; first and foremost by
preaching, and also by word of mouth.

For example; one day back in 1968 I was approached by a Protestant man at work
who asked me if I was prepared for Christ's return.

Well; I must've been either asleep or absent the day that the nuns talked about
Jesus coming back because that man's question was the very first time in my whole
life that I can remember somebody telling me.

My initial reaction was alarm because I instinctively knew that were I summoned for
a face-to-face with Jesus, it would not go well for me because I had a lot to answer
for. Well; I don't like being made to feel afraid so I became indignant and demanded
to know why Jesus would come back. That's when I found out for the very first time
that it was in the plan for Christ to take over the world. (I had somehow missed that
in catechism too.)

Then the Protestant asked me if I was going to Heaven. Well; of course I had no
clue because Catholics honestly don't know what to expect when they pass away. I
was crossing my fingers while in the back of my mind dreading the worst.

Then the man said; "Don't you know that Jesus died for you?"

Well; I had been taught in catechism that Jesus died for the sins of the world; that
much I knew; but honestly believed all along that he had been a victim of
unfortunate circumstances. It was a shock to discover that Jesus' trip to the cross
was deliberate, and that his Father was thinking of me when His son passed away,
viz: my sins were among the sins of the world that Jesus took to the cross with
him.

At that very instant-- scarcely a nanosecond --something took over in my mind as I
fully realized, to my great relief, that Heaven was no longer out of reach, rather,
well within my grasp!

That was an amazing experience. In just the two or three minutes of conversation
with that Protestant, I obtained an understanding of Jesus' crucifixion that many
tedious catechism classes had somehow failed to get across.

Long story short; I eventually went with that man to his church and, side by side
with him and a couple of elders, knelt at the rail down front and prayed a really
simple, naive prayer that went something like this:

"God, I know I'm a sinner. I would like to take advantage of your son's death"

My prayer wasn't much to brag about; but it was the smartest sixteen words I'd
ever spoken up to that time.

* There are folks at large who have never yet complied with the sermon on the
mount, and know in their hearts they never will. I highly recommend they follow
my example and speak with God by means of words similar to mine rather than risk
their chances at the great white throne event depicted by Rev 20:11-15 where the
lost will be terminated by a mode of death akin to a foundry worker falling into a
kettle of molten iron. Jesus' crucifixion has made it possible for God to get people
into a position of safety where they will never again be in danger of their worst
nightmare but they've got to reach out and take the opportunity when it's presented,
while it's still on the table.
_

 

[Albion]

Yes the words don't matter, but it is not bad to use some form of sinner's prayer. One guy got saved. His friend was feeding the rabbits at night and wanted to get saved too. He said you have to say Matthew whatever out loud, cause that's how I got saved and he did that and got saved.

Is that an improvement over one or another of the versions of the Sinner's Prayer? It looks very much like both men considered that Bible verse to have almost magical powers. "Do this in exactly the following way or else it won't work..."

And none of this stuff does a thing to improve upon a sincere prayer of repentance with a confession of faith in the Lord -- all done from the heart and in the penitent's own words.

 

[Lamb]

Yes but you do have to ask and knock if you want the door to open for you. God will not go against someone's will. He can't save someone who does not want Him. He can bring them to that point, like Nebukadnesar and Saul, but you have to cooperate.

That ask and knock verse is actually addressed to believers.

Of course God goes against someone's will, because we have a sinful will and God has a pure and Holy one. Our sinful will cannot choose pure and Holy apart from God doing the work within us. We either have faith to believe, or we do not. If we have faith, we have salvation. If we do not, we can't choose it because we don't believe.

 

[Messy]

Is that an improvement over one or another of the versions of the Sinner's Prayer? It looks very much like both men considered that Bible verse to have almost magical powers. "Do this in exactly the following way or else it won't work..."

And none of this stuff does a thing to improve upon a sincere prayer of repentance with a confession of faith in the Lord -- all done from the heart and in the penitent's own words.

He just got saved. He had no clue. He said what worked with him. It doesn't matter what you pray exactly. It was from the heart.

 

[Odë:hgöd]

.
Maybe it's time to interject with some comic relief?


Old Dan Tucker was a fine old man
He washed his face in a frying pan
He combed his hair with a wagon wheel
And died of a toothache in his heel

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Here come old flat top
He roller coaster
He got early warning
He got muddy water
He one Mojo filter
He say one and one and one is three
Got to be good looking
'Cause he's so hard to see

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

A spinster lady was asked why she never married. Well; she said: I've got a
hound that lays around the house all day, a stove that smokes, and a bird
that cusses. What do I need a man for?

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Faith is believin' somethin' you know ain't so.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

It ain't what you know that gets you in trouble,
It's what you know for sure that just ain't so,

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Burma Shave
_

 

[Odë:hgöd]

.

Airplane A leaves Chicago's Ohare at 200mph.

Airplane B leaves 45 minutes later at 300 mph.

How long before plane B overtakes plane A and how far from the airport
will they rendezvous?
_

 

[Josiah]

Yes and we can't wait apathetic until God does everything

... as if Jesus does not actually save, as if Jesus is not the Savior. But self saves self by what self does for self?

Is it "God does His part - the part that doesn't actually save - as we gotta do our part - the part that actually results in salvation?



.

 

[Albion]

He just got saved. He had no clue. He said what worked with him. It doesn't matter what you pray exactly. It was from the heart.

Excuse me if there's some miscommunication going on, but you appeared to have said exactly the opposite in the post I replied to. See below.

Messy said:

One guy got saved. His friend was feeding the rabbits at night and wanted to get saved too. He said you have to say Matthew whatever out loud, cause that's how I got saved and he did that and got saved.

 

[Messy]

Excuse me if there's some miscommunication going on, but you appeared to have said exactly the opposite in the post I replied to. See below.

Yeah it sounded different. That was in a book. He just said that to make fun of it. He had no clue. Someone told him that. He told the guy who was feeding his rabbits, but they all got saved anyway.

 

[Messy]

... as if Jesus does not actually save, as if Jesus is not the Savior. But self saves self by what self does for self?

Is it "God does His part - the part that doesn't actually save - as we gotta do our part - the part that actually results in salvation?

God does everything in us. He works through people. If He needed no people, He wouldn't have gotten 12 disciples and wouldn't have taught them to make disciples of all the nations.
The only thing we do, when you weren't raised in church and already instantly believed as a kid, cause kids always believe when you tell them about God, is ask Him to forgive your sins, pray the Our Father to get saved like Ian McCormack or a sinner's prayer or you call on Jesus' Name or you just hear the Word and believe, but God saves. Not the one asking Him to forgive them. Not the one who shares the Gospel. Did the robber on the cross save himself when he said Jesus think about me? Of course not. Jesus saved him.
And why does praying a prayer make you a cosavior and not reading the Bible and going to a church. Then that is cosaving too. You read the Bible and hear the Word and get saved. Oh you saved yourself cause you read the Bible. Ehm God gave His Word. He saves. His Word saves. Cooperating: say you refuse to read the Word and to go to a church to hear the Word, then how on earth can you get saved when you never hear the Word and why is it not a work to go hear it. It's a decision. People who were raised christian, their parents did all those works for them. Still only God saves.
Just because I prayed a prayer does not mean I saved myself. The Holy Spirit did all the work. He inspired people to pray for me. He made me go search for God. He let someone put that prayer in a Bible. He told my brother to find a church and take me there. He told a pastor to start a church there. Just because noone saw Him doesn't mean He didn't do it. But it's no reason to tell people to not pray the sinner's prayer. You may keep someone away from God by saying that.

 

[Messy]

.

Airplane A leaves Chicago's Ohare at 200mph.

Airplane B leaves 45 minutes later at 300 mph.

How long before plane B overtakes plane A and how far from the airport
will they rendezvous?
_

What is that in kilometers per hour?

 

[Albion]

And why does praying a prayer make you a cosavior and not reading the Bible and going to a church. Then that is cosaving too.

For one thing, "praying a prayer" isn't the issue. It's what that particular prayer, if anything, is supposed to accomplish that is the issue.

And for another, nobody here has argued that reading the Bible and going to church will save anyone.

Then that is cosaving too. You read the Bible and hear the Word and get saved.

No. You don't.

Doing that MAY (or may not) result in leading you to the Lord and to Faith, but it's the Faith that matters, not the inquiry or search.

 

[Messy]

For one thing, "praying a prayer" isn't the issue. It's what that particular prayer, if anything, is supposed to accomplish that is the issue.

And for another, nobody here has argued that reading the Bible and going to church will save anyone.


No. You don't.

Doing that MAY (or may not) result in leading you to the Lord and to Faith, but it's the Faith that matters, not the inquiry or search.

Iedereen KAN het ...

Eerst het slechte nieuws: Denk na! Heb jij Gods geboden * steeds perfect gehouden? * Yahweh gaf aan Mozes deze geboden (in verkorte versie): 1. Aanbid alleen de Godheid. 2. Maak geen...

jezusleeft.weebly.com

Here is a Belgian example. Jesus lives/everyone-can-do-it.
Translation: You can make it right with God now. Everyone can do it, but not everyone wants to.
Then a simple explanation of the Gospel, that we can't keep the 10 commandments and we're seperated from God and need Jesus, who died for our sins and then a sinner's prayer.
People get saved when they read or hear and pray this. I got saved when I read it. They say you can do it. Now I see the problem Josiah has with it. Yes sure it sounds like you do it yourself, but they say that because of ages of Calvinism here, saying you can't do anything. Don't you dare think that you can simply ask God to adopt you and He just says: Yay! Welcome in the family.
The lost son had to get up and go back to his father. He said: My son here was dead. Apparently the dead can walk.
Faith just acts. Of course the faith is from God and it's the Holy Spirit and the Word doing it and God Who sent the Word. But you can't preach that God has to do everything and you are incapable of doing anything, because that keeps people in unbelief and doubt. Am I chosen? Am I not too bad to ask God to forgive my sins?

Lol they just used an English movie from livingwaters and translated it. That's from Ray Comfort, who is anti sinner's prayer.


The Bible does the same thing. Be saved.
Acts 2
And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this [l]perverse generation.” 41 Then those who [m]gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them.

Sounds like they did it themselves, but then:

And the Lord added [q]to the church daily those who were being saved.

 

[Messy]

The one who really does something is the one who God uses to pray for them to open their eyes and bind demons that blind their thoughts, which they could never do themselves. It's just God working in them and not to forget the preacher, the Bible translater etc. When Ian McCormack was about to die and got saved by the prayer in the ambulance, God said to his mother: Your son Ian is nearly dead. Pray for him now. God did it. He told her to pray and him to pray the our Father and mean it. He had to forgive those guys who left him to die and mocked him. They had to pray though.

 

[Lamb]

We are all saved in the same way "by grace through faith" and that faith grasps hold of Jesus as Savior for the forgiveness of our sins.

How do we get faith? Through God's word! Where do we find God's word? It's in the bible.

God works through means and He has put His word in scriptures so that when we read it or hear it, we might come to faith and believe. Even that is in God's timing as He is the one who converts us.