Faith

[brightfame52]

That's quite wrong and not in keeping with the meaning of the Bible verse that you started your post with.

FAITH is what cometh...Not theological expertise on every possible aspect of God's doings.

You hold to a strange, unBiblical, view of justification, etc., but I nevertheless admit that you have FAITH in Christ as your Lord and Savior. You're just misinformed about some other issues that the Bible treats.

And by the same token, the great majority of Christians, despite being members of a wide range of denominations, do understand that FAITH--not something else--is what "cometh by hearing." They are genuine followers of Christ. In fact, some of the humblest of them are his greatest disciples.








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True Faith believes the Truth, of God.

 

[Albion]

True Faith believes the Truth, of God.

No, actually that isn't the case. Faith is about believing in and trusting Jesus as one's savior.

It doesn't include believing that he lived until 33AD instead of 30AD or that Mary had no other children, even though both of those ideas have stirred controversy among Christians and even though the evidence, in both cases, is in the Bible.

Of course, the word itself (faith) can have other meanings, but this the one we're discussing.

 

[brightfame52]

No, actually that isn't the case. Faith is about believing in and trusting Jesus as one's savior.

It doesn't include believing that he lived until 33AD instead of 30AD or that Mary had no other children, even though both of those ideas have stirred controversy among Christians and even though the evidence, in both cases, is in the Bible.

Of course, the word itself (faith) can have other meanings, but this the one we're discussing.

Yes it is the case. True Faith acknowledges the Truth Titus 1:1-2

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

 

[Albion]

Yes it is the case.

Don't pout. I'll explain it again.

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

As I pointed out to you in the previous post, the word faith, capitalized or not, has several different meanings.

In the verse you quoted here, Paul's intention was to address those who were already part of the church, not to convert pagans, so when he says "faith," the reference is simply being made to "the general body of Christian doctrine" (as one Bible authority describes it) or, in other words, the Christian religion.

For example, we might say, "Mike isn't a Buddhist or Muslim; he's a member of the Christian faith."





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[brightfame52]

Don't pout. I'll explain it again.

As I pointed out to you in the previous post, the word faith, capitalized or not, has several different meanings.

In the verse you quoted here, Paul's intention was to address those who were already part of the church, not to convert pagans, so when he says "faith," the reference is simply being made to "the general body of Christian doctrine" (as one Bible authority describes it) or, in other words, the Christian religion.

For example, we might say, "Mike isn't a Buddhist or Muslim; he's a member of the Christian faith."





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Nothings changed, apparently you understand not these matters.

 

[Albion]

Nothings changed, apparently you understand not these matters.

I understand that you have an unusual theory and you cannot show any reason for the readers to think it's a correct one--not from Scripture or even from simple logic.

 

[brightfame52]

I understand that you have an unusual theory and you cannot show any reason for the readers to think it's a correct one--not from Scripture or even from simple logic.

You can't understand.

 

[Lamb]

You can't understand.

Please be careful here...you don't want to be going into the flame zone.

 

[brightfame52]

Faith cometh by hearing of the Word of God!2


There simply is no Gospel Conversion [which is what Rom 10:17 means] apart from acknowledging the Truth Titus 1:1

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

1 Tim 2:4

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2 Tim 2:25

In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

And apart from the Truth of the True Gospel,there is no True Faith from hearing. True Faith which is given by the Spirit of Truth can only be stirred into action by God's Truth, the Word of Truth Eh 1:13

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

There must be true and accurate scriptural facts set forth as to the Person and Work of Jesus Christ. Paul says that His Gospel was according to scripture 1 Cor 15:3-4

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

The scripture of Truth Dan 10:21


But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.

It must be the Truth about the Redemption He gives Lk 1:68

Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people [The Elect or those He foreknew Rom 11:2],

There must be the Truth of His Person as God-Man 1 Tim 3:16

16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.CP Jn 1:1,14

Matt 1:23

Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Also the Truth about what He accomplished for His People as God-Man, the message is incomplete without specifying who His Redemptive Work was in behalf of, which is God's Elect, or the Church the Body of Christ or the Sheep, again this cannot go unspecified. Without these biblical facts set forth from the scripture, we are not preaching the Word of Truth, which only incites the Hearing of Faith. The Word of Truth is never set forth in any given setting in its entirety, but its a constant continuum of declaring the Whole Counsel of God Acts 20:24-27

24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

25 And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.

26 Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men.

27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.

That word declare means to rehearse:

to relate the facts or particulars of; recount.

God uses the Gospel to establish the believer the rest of their pilgrimage upon earth Rom 16:25

Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

 

[brightfame52]

Faith cometh by hearing of the Word of God!3



The Faith that is the Gift and Fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22, born out of the Spirit is a infallible Faith, one which will not embrace lies, but it is custom for the reception of only the Truth.

Its a grace of the Spirit suitable only for Divine Revelation to be received, and not the wisdom of men, for this Faith cannot believe a Lie, for its the Faith of God's Elect. So Jesus can say of them that have it this Jn 10:4-5

4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

This Faith is given custom made to hear only the voice of their Saviour " They know His Voice"

Jesus says of His Elect also Matt 24:24

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Remember Jn 10:4-5, So that's basically the meaning of Matt 24:24, The God given Faith will not cleave to lies. 4

 

[brightfame52]

Faith and Repentance are Joined together!



Faith is part of True Repentance, and True Repentance is part of Faith. For True God given repentance is to acknowledge the Truth 2 Tim 2:25

25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

That's very important to understand. We have no repentance toward God while embracing lies and false gospels. An acknowledgment of the Truth is a knowing and belief of it without a doubt.

The knowing of the Truth is an experiential knowing with the heart, not a mere nominal knowing as here 2 Pet 2:20-21

20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

Also Titus 1:1

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

Note: Acknowledging the Truth is Godliness !

2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Repentance and Acknowledging the Truth are effects of the Spirit's Sanctification of us.

So when Peter Preaches that the risen and ascended Saviour Christ gives Repentance to Israel [God's Elect of both jews and gentiles] Acts 5:31, that does involve giving also to Israel [The Elect] belief in or an Acknowledgment of the Truth ! We cannot separate what God hath joined together. 4

 

[Albion]

Faith and Repentance are Joined together!
Faith is part of True Repentance, and True Repentance is part of Faith. For True God given repentance is to acknowledge the Truth 2 Tim 2:25

25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
That's very important to understand. We have no repentance toward God while embracing lies and false gospels. An acknowledgment of the Truth is a knowing and belief of it without a doubt.

In other words, Faith is NOT (as you've contended) simply a consequence or sidelight of having been previously justified. That is to say that we allegedly have no part in it, nor does Faith accomplish anything, because it's already been sealed and settled.

The knowing of the Truth is an experiential knowing with the heart, not a mere nominal knowing as here 2 Pet 2:20-21

And here again, as with the above point, you are now reversing what you asserted in your earlier posts.

 

[prism]

This discussion sounds close to monergism vs synergism type discussion. Am I correct?

 

[brightfame52]

To some it has not been given to them to believe the Gospel, but to some it has been See Matt 13:11; Mk 4:11 and Phil 1:29. Mk 4:11 also adds the comment to them which are without Mk 4:11

11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

Matt 13:11

11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Now one may object and say that Jesus is speaking of the Mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven and not the Gospel; but that s but a foolish and unlearned reply, because they are the same. Yes Gospel Truths and or Mysteries are the same as the Kingdom of Heaven Mysteries. One would be hard press to separate The Gospel which is a Mystery Eph 6:19, The Mystery of Christ Eph 3:4,which is joined with Preaching Christ in the Gospel Rom 16:25

25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

In other words to Preach Christ now under the New Covenant dispensation, and not Preach the Mystery of Christ, it is to Preach a half Christ which is no Christ at all. The Mystery of the Faith is the Gospel 1 Tim 3:9; Here Paul means the entire Counsel of God in the Salvation Purpose Acts 20:24-27 and the combination of all these these things forms the Gospel of the Kingdom of God, which is inclusive of all the various Mysteries, and its given to know to only some, to know the Mysteries of the Kingdom !

 

[Messy]

To some it has not been given to them to believe the Gospel, but to some it has been See Matt 13:11; Mk 4:11 and Phil 1:29. Mk 4:11 also adds the comment to them which are without Mk 4:11

11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

Matt 13:11

11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Now one may object and say that Jesus is speaking of the Mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven and not the Gospel; but that s but a foolish and unlearned reply, because they are the same. Yes Gospel Truths and or Mysteries are the same as the Kingdom of Heaven Mysteries. One would be hard press to separate The Gospel which is a Mystery Eph 6:19, The Mystery of Christ Eph 3:4,which is joined with Preaching Christ in the Gospel Rom 16:25

25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

In other words to Preach Christ now under the New Covenant dispensation, and not Preach the Mystery of Christ, it is to Preach a half Christ which is no Christ at all. The Mystery of the Faith is the Gospel 1 Tim 3:9; Here Paul means the entire Counsel of God in the Salvation Purpose Acts 20:24-27 and the combination of all these these things forms the Gospel of the Kingdom of God, which is inclusive of all the various Mysteries, and its given to know to only some, to know the Mysteries of the Kingdom !

That's a real pity. We all don't believe it. Oh well.

 

[grumix8]

You must have faith is impossible to have faith and not like by God he wants us to have faith in the impossible. So we can be liked.

 

[brightfame52]

Heb 11:1 is Heavenly in Origin.


Heb 11:1

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Faith here is of Divine and Heavenly origin John 3:27

27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

James 1:17

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

It is by the Righteousness of God their Saviour they have obtained it 2 Pet 1:1

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

The word obtained means:

to receive by divine allotment, obtain

Faith is of Divine Origin created in the souls of them who are born of the Spirit, which being born of Him, we then partake of Spiritual Life, Faculties, Senses and Perceptions, hence thereby capacitated to receive the Gospel of Our Salvation, the Word of Truth, to Spiritually discern its Truths and rest in them.4

 

[brightfame52]

Even Our Faith !

1 Jn 5:4

4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

This is the victory that overcometh the world, even our Faith. Yes this is speaking of the Believers Faith, only its not his Faith from being born out of the flesh, but of that new constitution which was born of the Spirit, the New Man of Eph 4:24

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Or Born out of incorruptible seed 1 Pet 1:23

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

This Man is Created or born unto True Righteousness and Holiness. But as men of the flesh who had nothing but a human birth, we have no Faith that is pleasing to God, let alone Victorious over the World, Flesh and Devil ! Rom 8:7-8

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Its not the natural man that becomes a Believer in Christ 1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

And Christ in Preaching is set forth by the Spirit of God, the Preacher merely delivers the spoken message, but its the Spirit that must reveal Christ out of the Spoken Word. 1 Thess 1:5

For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

So its not the natural man that receives Christ in Faith, but the Spiritual Man, born of God, that's who Believes. John states that here also John 1:12-13

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Those who received Him during His Public Appearance had been Born of God.

Now I know that some proud religionists will think that the faith that overcomes the World was their own natural faith out of the flesh of them, a faith they had within apart from being made a New Creature. So in essence they became overcomers of the world by their own faith in the flesh, that's quite an accomplishment for the natural man to boast and glory about, if it was true.

So The " even our Faith" is the Faith of the Believer, but its the Believer who had First been made a New Man by New Creation Eph 4:24

And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

The word new here for new man is not new in time, but in kind "new" as to form or quality, of different nature from what is contrasted as old. 4

 

[brightfame52]

The work of faith with power

2Thess 1:11

Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

Its denied by those in organized religion that Faith , which believes in Christ in a conversion salvation experience, is effected by the power of God. Its not the natural ability of man.

The work of Faith with Power was began by the Power of the Holy Spirit within one and its carried out to its completion by that same Power.

Now that this Faith or Believing is first effected by God's Power is seen in Eph 1:19

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

Plain and simple, who believe according to the working of His Mighty Power, that power being usward !

Rom 1:16 confirms the same


16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Its God"s power being exercised when the results are one is believing the Gospel.

One believes when the Gospel comes in the power of the Spirit 1 Thess 1:5

5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

And that's what Paul is stating about being fulfilled in them here 2 Thess 1:11

11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

Peter writes that believers are kept in Faith by the Power of God 1 Pet 1:5

5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

This Faith is of the New Creation and it is sustained by the same Power that Created it or begat it , this to the Glory of God, particularly, God the Spirit !

 

[brightfame52]

Believing for the sake of Christ !


Phil 1:29

29 For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake,

All those who shall believe on Christ as a result of Salvation, it is because it has been granted/given to them to do so. The reason why it has been so granted , was because of His Blood Shed for them, and because its being granted to Him, in other words, He prays that for those He died for to be made believers through the Word of His chosen messengers Jn 17:19-20

19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.


20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;

All for whom He died and rose again, them He also maketh intercession for in behalf of in heaven Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies.

34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.

The word intercession is the greek word ἐντυγχάνω

I meet, encounter, hence: (b) I call (upon), make a petition, make suit, supplication.

It means a prayer to God on behalf of another.

Christ by His Presence before God, constantly intercedes on behalf of all for whom He died, He makes Petitions for them.

Believers are the answer to Christ's petition and intercession. Lets look at a Psalm here Ps 2:7-8

“I will declare the decree:
The Lord has said to Me,
‘You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.

8 Ask of Me, and I will give You
The nations for Your inheritance,
And the ends of the earth for Your possession.

Hence it was these that Christ interceded for in the Nations, and whom Paul understood would be made obedient to the Faith as Christ's possessions Rom 15:18

18 For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,

The ESV :

18 For I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me to bring the Gentiles to obedience—by word and deed,

They are made obedient in the day of His Power Ps 110:3, the day of Gospel Power Rom 1:16

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

The Gospel power here converting them makes manifest that they were part of the possessions, inheritance the Father gives the Son upon His Intercession for them.

Rom 1:5

5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:


Rom 16:26

26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, aaccording to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Paul here is asserting that in answer to Christ's Intercession to the Father, the messengers are sent out with the Gospel to all nations to bring about their obedience to Christ, or to faith !

All this obedience is in accordance with Christ's Intercession for those He died world wide, and their obedience to the Faith is granted for His Sake or on His Behalf Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

In other words, the privilege of trusting in Christ for Salvation was a bestowing upon all for whom He died and makes Intercession for, and their believing is an answer to His petition of interceding, for Believers are but manifestations of the Son's Redeemed Possessions Ps 2:7-8

7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.