Who is "him that justifieth the ungodly"?

[Albion]

1 Cor 15:17

17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

If the resurrection of Christ didn't mean that those He died for are Justified from all their sins, then there would not have been any truth of Justification for Faith to receive and embrace, and faith would have been worthless,

What the verse is saying is that if Christ had simply died and did not come back from the dead and live again as he'd promised, that would have proved that he was just another preacher and teacher, but not the Son of God or any kind of Savior.

If that were shown to be the case, of course our trust in his promises and our hopes of eternal life would have been crushed.

Who was delivered for[because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

That's right. Christ paid the price for the sins of the world. And he promised that if we have Faith in him, would live eternally just as he showed us with his own resurrection from the grave. As anyone can see, there are still many humans who do not accept the call (through Faith) and continue to refuse forgiveness for their sins.

 

[brightfame52]

What the verse is saying is that if Christ had simply died and did not come back from the dead and live again as he'd promised, that would have proved that he was just another preacher and teacher, but not the Son of God or any kind of Savior.

If that were shown to be the case, of course our trust in his promises and our hopes of eternal life would have been crushed.


That's right. Christ paid the price for the sins of the world. And he promised that if we have Faith in him, would live eternally just as he showed us with his own resurrection from the grave. As anyone can see, there are still many humans who do not accept the call (through Faith) and continue to refuse forgiveness for their sins.

You still dont get it.

 

[Albion]

Let's see. I "got it" well enough to show you where you went wrong, didn't I?

Why is it that you cannot defend your own theory?

 

[brightfame52]

What the resurrection of Christ means ! cont

Also Christ's resurrection as the Head of the Sheep Heb 13:20 was a portentous, and judicial act, whereby God the Father as the Supreme Judge did Justify His Son and those Chosen in Him [The Sheep] Him from all their sins laid upon Him or imputed, and them from their own sins, His Resurrection was an actual Justification for all whom He died as their Surety Head, not for any of His own sins personally was He vindicated, but for those sins and transgressions charged to Him by the Father, specifically those of His Sheep !

 

[brightfame52]

All for whom Christ died for, are by that death /blood alone Justified Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Or Him having been delivered for our offences Rom 4:25 ! This also means that they had to be also at the same time Righteous, simply because God could not justify any sinner without a perfect righteousness, which Perfect righteousness resides outside of the ungodly sinner; Nothing in the sinner or performed by the sinner constitutes this Perfect Righteousness the Justified sinner must have in order to be Justified, its soley and 100 % by the Obedience of Jesus Christ Rom 5:19b

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

The word righteous here and justified in Rom 5:9 are the same word in the original ! 10

 

[brightfame52]

Justification of Life for who ?

Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

The words came upon means: happened as a result, meets on one, received on one !

Is Justification of life here for all those Christ died for ? More importantly does it apply to them before they exist, before they are believers ? The answer is yes indeed, no question about it, for the teaching here of Paul and the context demand it; For if the Justification of Life comes upon the Elect in the same manner as condemnation came upon them in Adam, as it is shown in this verse as well as throughout this Chapter 5 of Romans, then it is most reasonable and agreeable to sound judgment to conclude that Justification of Life was imputed, reckoned upon all the Elect before they had a physical being or existence, and even moreso, before they believed on Him.

Now this is true and evident that the sin of adam that called upon them condemnation, was before they had a being, or an existence, for Paul writes in the same Chapter and context Rom 5:12

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon or came upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Passed upon here means :"passed through unto all men so no one could escape its power "

Now here Paul is teaching by Divine Inspiration how and when sin entered into the world, and by that states Death passed upon all men ! Thats because, before they had any being, in him or in his loins all his seed had with him sinned even before they had being or existence !10

 

[Albion]

Justification of Life for who ?

Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

The words came upon means: happened as a result, meets on one, received on one !

And the word "all" means: no special group of men have been chosen to salvation from before their births. Christ died for "all" men, as that verse teaches.

 

[brightfame52]

And the word "all" means: no special group of men have been chosen to salvation from before their births. Christ died for "all" men, as that verse teaches.

All referring to God's Elect and they are legally Justified by the death of Christ before they are born.

 

[Messy]

-

 

[Messy]

All referring to God's Elect and they are legally Justified by the death of Christ before they are born.

There is no such thing as a sinner being legally justified. You're either a saint or a sinner. You're either reborn, got a new spirit or you didn't. There is no legal saint yet practical sinner who kills christians. Saul was not justified when he was killing christians. He was inspired by satan. Legal justification of a non saved sinner is just nonsense. It's lying. Calling good what's evil.

1 Corinthians 6
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [b]homosexuals, nor [c]sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were [d]sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

-> They were washed, changed, reborn when they got saved. Not before birth. Else they wouldn't even have been idolators etc.


Sin seperates one from God.

John 8
Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.
John 8:34‭-‬36 NKJV

John 8:34-36 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. Therefore if the Son makes you fre | New King James Version (NKJV) | Do

Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. Therefore if the Son makes you fre

bible.com

 

[brightfame52]

messy

There is no such thing as a sinner being legally justified.

Sure it is, but you dont believe or understand it.

 

[Messy]

messy



Sure it is, but you dont believe or understand it.

No cause it's nowhere in the Bible and just made up by some theologian. My faith is based on the Bible, what it says, not what whoever says that it says, while it clearly does not say that. The Bible says all men. Calvin says it means not all men. Calvin can go climb a tree. I believe Jesus. Not some doctrin maker.

Nice 'justified' man this ISIS leader, before he came to Christ:

Yes Jesus did away his sins on the cross, but only when he got saved, they were gone, cause he was in Christ.

 

[Albion]

There is no such thing as a sinner being legally justified. You're either a saint or a sinner. You're either reborn, got a new spirit or you didn't. There is no legal saint yet practical sinner who kills christians.

You've raised a good point there, Messy.

In the scenario that's imagined by our friend here, are those people who supposedly have been given a free pass to salvation by God before their births necessarily transformed by it? Or are they just "penciled in" somewhere in God's ledger as being heaven-bound, completely unaware of it, and despite them living this life no differently from the worst criminals and atheists??

 

[Josiah]

All referring to God's Elect and they are legally Justified by the death of Christ before they are born.

1. NOTHING states ONLY the elect. If I wrote, "President Biden is an American" that would not prove that ONLY he is an American.

2. According to your heresy, there is justification apart from faith - faith being moot. That's heresy and you PERSIST in it.



.

 

[brightfame52]

No cause it's nowhere in the Bible and just made up by some theologian. My faith is based on the Bible, what it says, not what whoever says that it says, while it clearly does not say that. The Bible says all men. Calvin says it means not all men. Calvin can go climb a tree. I believe Jesus. Not some doctrin maker.

Nice 'justified' man this ISIS leader, before he came to Christ:

Yes Jesus did away his sins on the cross, but only when he got saved, they were gone, cause he was in Christ.

In my opinion its scripture. You entitled to your opinion

 

[Albion]

In my opinion its scripture. You __?____ entitled to your opinion

You entitled to your opinion, eh?

One more time...What you first language?
I'm not familiar with any languages that routinely dispense with the predicates.

Predicate
noun

1. Grammar. (in many languages, such as English) one of the two main parts of a sentence, containing the verb and any of its objects, modifiers, or other completions, and generally expressing an action, state, or condition

I'm asking because this might have something to do with the difficulty you've had accepting the help that several different posters here have been offering you.

 

[brightfame52]

Justification of Life for who ? cont

Now here Paul is teaching by Divine Inspiration how and when sin entered into the world , and by that states Death passed upon all men Rom 5:12 ! Thats because, before they had any being, in him or in his loins all his seed had with him sinned even before they had being or existence !

Now this same biblical principle is taught when the writer of Hebrews stated that Levi paid tithes in Abraham because he was yet in his loins Heb 7:9-10

9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.

10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

Many don't know it but Christ is the Everlasting Father of His Seed Isa 9:6

6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Now the words payed tithes in Vs 9 is in the indicative mood and perfect tense, The indicative mood means:

a statement of fact or an actual occurrence from the writer's or speaker's perspective

And so those in Adam sinned in him when he sinned and were constituted sinners, before they had a physical being or existence, and before they acted sin from their own sin nature, because of God's Sovereign prerogative of Imputation !

So in Christ, the Elect Seed in Him, those chosen in Him before the foundation Eph 1:4, were constituted Righteous or received Justification of Life, by His Obedience or by His Righteousness of One Rom 5:18, it also being imputed to them by God's Sovereign prerogative before they had any being or existence, and before they did any act of obedience, before they believed !

So to reject that those Christ died for have received Justification of Life before they existed or believed, you must reject the entire biblical testimony of Rom 5 ! 11

 

[brightfame52]

Why Faith also Justifies !

We are said to be Justified by Faith in that, not because Faith effects ones Justification, but because it is effected /generated into the ones already yet Justified by Christ's Blood Rom 5:9,19 and its the result of the Sanctifying Work and Power of the Spirit 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

 

[brightfame52]

More on Justification before Faith !

The Justification that all men have who Christ died for, and that without them doing anything, they have it even while they are His Enemies Rom 5:10, it consists in forgiveness of sins Eph 1:7, which does correlate with non imputation of sin Rom 4:7-8, whereby the sins forgiven are never charged to their account against them, it also denotes God accepting them into His Divine Favor as being Just, Righteous, and accepts them as if they have never sinned; and again this is before they believe or obey the Gospel ! 11

 

[Albion]

More on Justification before Faith !

The Justification that all men have who Christ died for, and that without them doing anything, they have it even while they are His Enemies Rom 5:10,

In order to understand Romans 5:10-11, we need to set aside the altered version of Romans as presented here by brightfame and consider instead the plain words of Holy Scripture as recorded in just about any version of the Bible you can pick up in the bookstore..

Doing so, we find Romans 5:10 and 11 teaching the following--

5:10-11​

10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

It is perfectly evident from these verses (which you chose) that we are justified because of Jesus' sacrifice, not by some divine decree separated from it, and also that we have received it "NOW," meaning that the believers who were addressed by this Epistle did not receive that reconciliation BEFORE their own lifetimes and before Christ died on the Cross.