The Messiah and the 3 days and 3 nights timeframe of Matthew 12:40?

[Lees]

Jesus did not give the scribes and Pharisees a sign like they asked for. He had already given many signs and done many miracles. And He just got through healing a mans withered hand in the synogogue. Did they believe? No. A sign or miracle does nothing for the heart of unbelief. Instead they attributed the miracle to the demonic powers. (Matt. 12:9-30)

Then they come back and ask Jesus for a sign. (Matt. 12:38) But they don't really want a sign. And no sign would convice them. Which was why Jesus refused them what they asked for. They were of their father, the devil. (John 6:44)

The only sign Jesus gave he gave to that whole evil and adulterous generation. Not to the Pharisees. (Matt. 12:39-40) So, one needs to ask, how was Jesus being 3 days and nights in the heart of the earth a sign to that wicked generation.

It is interesting to me that, though we know Jesus rose the third day, the resurrection is not really in view in (Matt. 12:40). What is in view is the 3 days and nights in the heart of the earth. And yes, Jonah later preached to the Ninevites, (12:41), who repented. But they were Gentiles and not of that wicked Jewish generation that rejected Christ. The sign was not to them. In other words, the risen Christ was not the sign. Christ in the heart of the earth was the sign.

What is the heart of the earth? Why didn't Jesus say the grave or tomb? A grave or tomb is certainly not in the 'heart of the earth'.

Lees

 

[Messy]

But why did the Messiah choose 3 daytimes and 3 night times in the heart of the earth to be the sign that the scribes and Pharisees were asking Him for? Was there something significant about that particular length of time?

The number three biblically represents divine wholeness, completeness and perfection.

The Third Day – Yitro – Jan. 30 – Jewels of Judaism​

jewelsofjudaism.com
God consistently showed up on the third day, provided revelation on the third day, granted victory on the third day, provided salvation on the third day, granted healing on the third day, and revealed Himself on the third day.


And it says it was according to the Scriptures.

The Resurrection of the Messiah: What Israel Knew

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This development has been informed by the recently discovered “Gabriel Stone”2 The tablet is thought to be from the first century BC, and deals with themes of apocalypse and end times prophecy, based on Daniel, Haggai and Zechariah. The 87 lines of text, divided into two columns, are not always easy to read, and some of the words are impossible to make out. However, more experts have in recent years devoted time and attention to unravelling the mystery and discovering not only what is written on the stone, but also what it meant.

Two of the key experts involved are Ada Yardeni, an Israeli scholar and world authority on ancient Semitic languages, and another textual scholar called Israel Knohl from Hebrew University. Both agree that the text talks about the idea of a Messiah figure coming back to life. Yardeni writes,

“After reviewing the document, I came to the conclusion that the reading suggested by Professor Knohl for the third word of line 80—HAYE “live”—seems to be the only plausible reading of that word.

Thus, the first five words of this line should be translated as: “In three days live.”

This is an extraordinary discovery, because it confirms that this idea of resurrection on the third day existed in Jewish thinking way back, even before Jesus was born.3

 

[Albion]

Each year for thousands of years, Jewish Nissan 15th, Passover, always occurs on the first full moon after March 20th.[9] Easily seen in NASA astronomy data, full moon dates with these parameters for the years 28-33 AD are:[10]

28 AD: March 29 (Monday) 31 AD: April 17 (Tuesday)
29 AD: March 18 (Friday) 32 AD: April 14 (Monday)
30 AD: April 6 (Thursday) 33 AD: April 3 (Friday)

the most likely date of the crucifixion.

 

[Stravinsk]

I'm glad to have this reply from you. I too find all these theories to be interesting and even informative, but it's when Christians buy into them as if they are the truth at last revealed, and so on, that we should remember there's a reason that almost the whole of the Christian world, regardless of denomination, thinks otherwise.

.

If you are convinced of that, you are putting yourself in the company of a very small group of Christians, mainly members of one or another church that's generally considered to be a cult.

That should come as a sobering realization.

The logical fallacy of Bandwagon is really the last vestige of the unthinking sheep. The majority can't be wrong isn't a valid intellectual argument, it's a position of cowardice and laziness. This doesn't mean that a position opposed to it is the correct one, but to fall back on popular opinion for it's own sake is the cry of those who are unable or unwilling to engage in critical thought and honesty from fear of the consequences of public opinion, whether that be contrived or deducted.

 

[Messy]

the most likely date of the crucifixion.

The date is nice 333.

 

[Messy]

But why did the Messiah choose 3 daytimes and 3 night times in the heart of the earth to be the sign that the scribes and Pharisees were asking Him for? Was there something significant about that particular length of time?

Or maybe just because then you're surely really dead and it's not too long for His body to see corruption. With Lazarus there was a stench. Always when atheists want a real miracle as proof and you say so and so was raised from the dead, they're like: yeah sure. He was only half an hour brain dead. I don't believe it.

 

[rstrats]

Or maybe just because then you're surely really dead and it's not too long for His body to see corruption. With Lazarus there was a stench. Always when atheists want a real miracle as proof and you say so and so was raised from the dead, they're like: yeah sure. He was only half an hour brain dead. I don't believe it.

That could very well be close to the answer.

 

[atpollard]

But why did the Messiah choose 3 daytimes and 3 night times in the heart of the earth to be the sign that the scribes and Pharisees were asking Him for? Was there something significant about that particular length of time?

I think that it is hilarious that Christians are so accustomed to arguing over “Friday to Sunday” of the Crucifixion-Resurrection we can’t even see the question that you are actually asking. Let me take a shot at it.

Someone Will correct me if I get a detail wrong, but I believe Revelations was the last book of the Bible to be written and the Apostle John has been dead for 19 centuries (in round terms, someone else can look up dates and do the math). So if I were to claim that “God has appointed me an Apostle and reopened the canon of Scripture so that I can add one more book to prepare the Church for His second coming”. THAT would be an EXTRAORDINARY claim and y’all might want some sort of EXTRAORDINARY PROOF from me to support that claim. You would be RIGHT to expect and demand such proof!​

Fortunately for ALL of us, the canon is safe and I have not been called to be an Apostle … so no proof is needed.​

When Jesus walked the earth, the OT canon had been closed for centuries. There had not been a Prophet for centuries. The glory of the Lord had likely not rested in the Holy of Holies in the Temple since the Babylonian Captivity. The PEOPLE OF GOD had only three things:

• They were chosen through Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
• They had the LAW given by Moses.
• They waited for a promised MESSIAH that would restore the THRONE OF DAVID.

Jesus claimed to BE that Messiah, but rather than restore the OLD Kingdom, Jesus was talking about tearing down EVERYTHING they had left and creating something completely different.

[Back to my analogy for a moment ... What if my claim was that I am not an APOSTLE, but I am GOD HIMSELF and I have come to completely rewrite everything you think you understand about SCRIPTURE and to create a completely NEW BIBLE for a NEW PEOPLE OF GOD to follow! … Would that require an even GREATER proof to support such a claim?]​

So Jews, being Jews, demanded a SIGN from Jesus to prove that HE WAS WHO HE CLAIMED TO BE AND HAD THE AUTHORITY THAT HE CLAIMED TO HAVE. In short, what the Pharisees said to Jesus was “If you are really the Son of God, then PROVE IT!”

To this Jesus replied that they would have the “Sign of Jonah” … 3 days and nights.

So what do we know about JONAH to understand Jesus answer to them:

• Jonah refused to believe God (just as they were)
• Jonah disobeyed the commands of God (just as they were)
• GOD demonstrated to Jonah that GOD IS GOD and everyone bends to His Will sooner or later.
• FACTS: Jonah was swallowed by a great fish, spend three days in its belly under the water, was vomited out on the land, obeyed after that.
• SPECULATION: One does not survive three days in a fish without air - Jonah died. Being in a fish under the water is a metaphor and typological parallel for Christ being in a tomb and in Sheol (the land of the dead). God brought Jonah back to life to break Jonah’s stubborn heart and God would bring Jesus back to life to break the Pharisees stubborn heart.

That is why Jesus told them that the SIGN they demanded would be “three days and night” … They were a generation of Jonahs and Christ would die and be resurrected in three days for their unbelief.

Was dying and being resurrected sufficiently EXTRAORDINARY PROOF to justify His extraordinary claims?

 

[rstrats]

Was dying and being resurrected sufficiently EXTRAORDINARY PROOF to justify His extraordinary claims?

I think in Jewish thought that a body needed to be dead for at least 3 days to be considered legally dead. So, if that was the scribes' and Pharisees' understanding, then that might be the answer as to why 3 days and 3 nights was specified.

BTW, any particular reason for adding an "s" at the end of Revelation?

 

[atpollard]

BTW, any particular reason for adding an "s" at the end of Revelation?

Too lazy to look it up plus a little “help” from auto-correct … so I am never sure which typos are mine and which the iPad added for me. (That one is probably mine … iPad tends to replace my words with new words and capitalize Will whether I want it capitalized or not.)

 

[rstrats]

Too lazy to look it up

To what is "it" referring?

 

[atpollard]

deleted.

 

[Messy]

Someone Will correct me if I get a detail wrong, but I believe ​

It's your own fault lol.

 

[rstrats]

Too lazy to look it up plus a little “help” from auto-correct … so I am never sure which typos are mine and which the iPad added for me. (That one is probably mine … iPad tends to replace my words with new words and capitalize Will whether I want it capitalized or not.)

Wait ,you edited out what I based my question on.

 

[Messy]

I always thought it was Revelations. Still call it that often. He does get a lot of revelations in that book.

 

[Lees]

In Scripture, many times what is not said is equally important as what is, as God presents the emphasis of that writing. For example, the genealogies in (Matt.) and (Luke). Matthew, who was a Jew, presents Christ as King of the Jews. Thus he traces Christ's line back to Abraham. (Matt. 1:1-17) Luke, who was Gentile, presents Christ as the Man. So he traces Christ's line all the way to Adam. (Luke 4:23-38).

It is interesting to me that Christ's use of the phrase, 'three days and three nights in the whales belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth', is found only in (Matthew 12:40). The only other gospel where the same event with Jonah is mentioned is in (Luke 11:29-30). But there, the phrase 'three days and nights in the whales belly and in the heart of the earth' is left out. It just says, "For as Jonah was a sign to the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation." Why?

Again, this phrase, three days and nights in the heart of the earth, is not addressing the Resurrection. When Christ or others spoke of His future Resurrection He would often say something like 'on the third day'.

(Luke 9:22) "....and be slain, and be raised the third day."
(Luke 24:7) "...and be crucified, and the third day rise again."
(Luke 24:46) "...to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day."
(Mark. 8:31) "...and be killed, and after three days rise again."
(Mark 9:31) "...after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day."
(Mark 10:34) "...and shall kill him: and the third day he shall rise again."
(Matt. 16:21) "...and be killed, and be raised again the third day."
(Matt. 17:23) "And they shall kill him, and the third day he shall be raised again...."
(Matt. 20:19) "...to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise again."
(Matt. 27:63) "...After three days I will rise again."

Thus I believe the sign of Jesus being three days and nights in the heart of the earth has a particular and specific meaning to the Jews.

Lees

 

[rstrats]

Thus I believe the sign of Jesus being three days and nights in the heart of the earth has a particular and specific meaning to the Jews.

Lees

Any thoughts on what that meaning might be?

 

[Lees]

Any thoughts on what that meaning might be?

See again my post #(19).

See again our discussion of this same riddle of yours, in the 'Ethics and debates' section under your subject 'Common Figures of Speech'.

Seems you have no memory. Are you a real person? If you're too lazy to go back and reread, don't worry. I will get around to it again.

The main point you need to remember is that (Matt. 12:40) is not a time frame for the Resurrection. Oh my...now what will you do?

Lees

 

[Stravinsk]

Any thoughts on what that meaning might be?

See again my post #(19).

See again our discussion of this same riddle of yours, in the 'Ethics and debates' section under your subject 'Common Figures of Speech'.

Seems you have no memory. Are you a real person? If you're too lazy to go back and reread, don't worry. I will get around to it again.

The main point you need to remember is that (Matt. 12:40) is not a time frame for the Resurrection. Oh my...now what will you do?

Lees

I think he's referring to here: https://christianityhaven.com/threads/common-figure-of-speech.5507/post-221647

Where the relevant quote from him is:

I am not trying to reconcile anything. I am saying the 3 days and nights Jesus spoke of in (Matt. 12:40) involve His betrayal the night he was arrested. I believe Him. It's you and others that want to 'reconcile' Jesus statement in (Matt. 12:40) with the recorded events of His death and Resurrection.

Of course, it doesn't work this way either. Since if the count is started from Thursday night:

Thursday night (1 night) (Thursday Day is not counted as it's already past)
Friday day, Friday night (1 day, 2 nights)
Saturday day, Saturday night(2 days, 3 nights)
Sunday day (3 days, 3 nights)

The problem with this reckoning, however, is that the Gospel of John records Mary coming to the tomb "while it was still dark" John 20:1. Even if somehow Christ rose right at the crack of dawn (which would contradict John), that hardly counts for a "day"...more like an hour or something.

 

[Lees]

I think he's referring to here: https://christianityhaven.com/threads/common-figure-of-speech.5507/post-221647

Where the relevant quote from him is:



Of course, it doesn't work this way either. Since if the count is started from Thursday night:

Thursday night (1 night) (Thursday Day is not counted as it's already past)
Friday day, Friday night (1 day, 2 nights)
Saturday day, Saturday night(2 days, 3 nights)
Sunday day (3 days, 3 nights)

The problem with this reckoning, however, is that the Gospel of John records Mary coming to the tomb "while it was still dark" John 20:1. Even if somehow Christ rose right at the crack of dawn (which would contradict John), that hardly counts for a "day"...more like an hour or something.

What problem? (John 20:1) is clear. "The first day of the week"

Lees