APOSTLE'S or NICENE Creed?

[Josiah]

None of the Creeds attempt to state every truth. They'd be thousands of pages long if they did (maybe millions of pages, LOL). They address issues of debate and importance of their day.... and things that were considered important to embrace. They traditionally came in the liturgy after the readings (where God speaks to us) and were the response of the people, "this is believed" ("credo" = "I believe")

As a Lutheran, I'd be pleased if those who created the Apostle's and Nicene Creeds had a petition "And we believe in the Holy Scriptures, the source and norm for faith." But they didn't; perhaps because they didn't need to - that wasn't controversial and didn't need to be said?

I guess you could say much the same about the Bible itself. I mean, I have a LOT of questions the Bible never clearly answers.... a LOT of things were I wish the Bible was clearer or more explanitory. Or the statement, "The Bible contains 66 books (here's the list) and the words therein are the source and norm for faith and practice, not the Pope of the Roman Catholic Church." And "Preborn babies are fully human and killing them as in abortion is a horrible sin and if you do it you'll fry in hell." But it's not there. Life.






.

 

[prism]

As a Lutheran, I'd be pleased if those who created the Apostle's and Nicene Creeds had a petition "And we believe in the Holy Scriptures, the source and norm for faith." But they didn't; perhaps because they didn't need to - that wasn't controversial and didn't need to be said?

So the Creeds are more temporal, addressing the issues of the day?

 

[Albion]

So the Creeds are more temporal, addressing the issues of the day?

No. They contain what are still the key issues in the Christian faith at any time in history--belief in God, the Trinity, who Christ was, where he came from, what he did and is yet to do, his church, and our own futures with a resurrection after death and life eternal. To put it mildly, there's not much that could be considered essential to the faith but has been left out.

 

[Lamb]

If you're familiar with recent Church history, the early 20th century saw a violent attack on the inspiration of the Scriptures. It had nothing to do with attracting non believers but rather it sowed doubt in the minds of those weak in the faith.

We have had some members here who have doubted the inspiration of the scriptures. That's not the fault of the creeds, but instead it's the sin of mankind. A lot of those members don't attend a church, or they attend a church that's no longer traditional (again, sin has permeated). The creeds are not lacking though. If someone isn't going to believe that the bible is the inspired inerrant Word of God, then a creed stating as such isn't going to help either. Those who don't believe that the scriptures are the Word of God, don't believe in creeds at all.

 

[Messy]

We have had some members here who have doubted the inspiration of the scriptures. That's not the fault of the creeds, but instead it's the sin of mankind. A lot of those members don't attend a church, or they attend a church that's no longer traditional (again, sin has permeated). The creeds are not lacking though. If someone isn't going to believe that the bible is the inspired inerrant Word of God, then a creed stating as such isn't going to help either. Those who don't believe that the scriptures are the Word of God, don't believe in creeds at all.

And even if their church says it's God's inspired Word and they believe that, there are false teachers who just say: yeah but the meaning of the word is different.

 

[prism]

No. They contain what are still the key issues in the Christian faith at any time in history--belief in God, the Trinity, who Christ was, where he came from, what he did and is yet to do, his church, and our own futures with a resurrection after death and life eternal. To put it mildly, there's not much that could be considered essential to the faith but has been left out.

What about God's Word as revealed to the Holy Prophets and Apostles?

 

[prism]

We have had some members here who have doubted the inspiration of the scriptures. That's not the fault of the creeds, but instead it's the sin of mankind. A lot of those members don't attend a church, or they attend a church that's no longer traditional (again, sin has permeated). The creeds are not lacking though. If someone isn't going to believe that the bible is the inspired inerrant Word of God, then a creed stating as such isn't going to help either. Those who don't believe that the scriptures are the Word of God, don't believe in creeds at all.

Agreed

 

[prism]

And even if their church says it's God's inspired Word and they believe that, there are false teachers who just say: yeah but the meaning of the word is different.

That could also happen to the Creeds. ¿n'est pas?

 

[Josiah]

So the Creeds are more temporal, addressing the issues of the day?

No; I'd say they are timeless since what is true then is still true today.

But yes, the SPECIFICS they address were issues then. They typically still are.


Blessings!

Allen

 

[Albion]

That could also happen to the Creeds. ¿n'est pas?

In one sense, but you are forgetting what the reason is (and was) for having the Creeds. It's not the same as the Scriptures.

 

[prism]

In one sense, but you are forgetting what the reason is (and was) for having the Creeds. It's not the same as the Scriptures.

From my understanding the Scriptures are God given and reveal His purposes in Jesus Christ; whereas the Creeds are man's compilation of God's Word in shorthand, to be used liturgically, yet but both are subject to misinterpretation.

 

[Albion]

From my understanding the Scriptures are God given and reveal His purposes in Jesus Christ; whereas the Creeds are man's compilation of God's Word in shorthand, to be used liturgically, yet but both are subject to misinterpretation.

You can review our answer to your question by re-reading posts 16, 28, 38, 57, and 63 of this thread.

 

[prism]

You can review our answer to your question by re-reading posts 16, 28, 38, 57, and 63 of this thread.

Post #63...

No. They contain what are still the key issues in the Christian faith at any time in history--belief in God, the Trinity, who Christ was, where he came from, what he did and is yet to do, his church, and our own futures with a resurrection after death and life eternal. To put it mildly, there's not much that could be considered essential to the faith but has been left out.

Key issues of the Early Church perhaps, but Martin Luther said

"justificatio est articulus stantis et cadentis ecclesiae—”justification is the article by which the church stands and falls.”

Without the article of justification, there would be no 'Holy Catholic Church the Creeds speak of, and yet that article was left out.
This is why I believe the Creeds dealt with the 'hot' issues of their day.

 

[Lamb]

Post #63...



Key issues of the Early Church perhaps, but Martin Luther said

"justificatio est articulus stantis et cadentis ecclesiae—”justification is the article by which the church stands and falls.”

Without the article of justification, there would be no 'Holy Catholic Church the Creeds speak of, and yet that article was left out.
This is why I believe the Creeds dealt with the 'hot' issues of their day.

Both creeds state Jesus died and that He was resurrected, so objectively justification is stated in both.

 

[prism]

Both creeds state Jesus died and that He was resurrected, so objectively justification is stated in both.

That's if one holds to 'objective justification', which is not universally held by the Church.

 

[Albion]

One more time...

The Creeds summarize the fundamentals or essentials of the Christian faith. They are not intended to cover the range of every last issue that someone somewhere--or some churches, for that matter--might care about in addition.

And all of us here could easily pose questions that might be thought important enough for the Creeds to have answered. What about the sacraments? What is the afterlife going to be like and how many different destinations are there? Christ is coming again, but when will that be? And so on.

ALL OF THAT would amount to a departure from what the Creeds are about and why they were created.

 

[prism]

One more time...

The Creeds summarize the fundamentals or essentials of the Christian faith. They are not intended to cover the range of every last issue that someone somewhere--or some churches, for that matter--might care about in addition.

And all of us here could easily pose questions that might be thought important enough for the Creeds to have answered. What about the sacraments? What is the afterlife going to be like and how many different destinations are there? Christ is coming again, but when will that be? And so on.

ALL OF THAT would amount to a departure from what the Creeds are about and why they were created.

Again, giving good reason to stick with all of God's Word.

Matthew 4:4
But he answered, "It is written, "'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.'"

 

[Lamb]

That's if one holds to 'objective justification', which is not universally held by the Church.

I don't care that other denominations don't believe in it. It's the truth of Christianity and the creeds contain that truth.

 

[Lamb]

Again, giving good reason to stick with all of God's Word.

Matthew 4:4
But he answered, "It is written, "'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.'"

Who on earth said we shouldn't go to God's Word? The creeds are a way to unite Christians that briefly tell of our Savior.

 

[Albion]

I don't care that other denominations don't believe in it. It's the truth of Christianity and the creeds contain that truth.

Who on earth said we shouldn't go to God's Word? The creeds are a way to unite Christians that briefly tell of our Savior.

Nicely put, Lamb. But somehow, we're still not getting through.

However, I can't think of any way to be clearer than we already have been; and this is not an elusive or complicated issue.