Faith

Lees

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Now you being dishonest. And I see no reason to further communicate with a dishonest person.

Ah...another one of those.

As I said, your inability to answer the questions show that your position is null and void.

Your accusation against me of being 'dishonest' is just your way to hide and not respond.

That's fine. I expected it.

Lees
 

brightfame52

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Eph 2:8


Eph 2:8

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Religionists, no matter what, believe that Salvation is of themselves. However, that Faith is not of man that believeth, but by the Grace and Power of God, can not be more plainer than here written in Rom 11:18-20

18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

The standing by Faith is not anything we do, so it excludes boasting, as something man does as a condition to get saved ! Faith is part of the grafting in procedure that God does. Yes Vs 18 above excludes boasting for faith as well as Eph 2:9

The only way one can stand by faith is by God's Ability, not by the flesh. The word stand in Vs 20 is the greek word histēmi:

to cause or make to stand, to place, put, set

So they were caused or made to stand by Faith !

The same word is used here Rom 14:4

4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

God is able and does enable according to His Purpose, those He so desires to stand by Faith as in Rom 11:20

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

That should humble us, but it doesn't, because religionists erroneously believe the faith they stand by is of themselves, which makes them boasters ! 3
 

brightfame52

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Jn 17:19-20 He Prays for Faith !


Jn 17:19-20

19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

Even though many do not realize it here, but Jesus is praying that all for whom He died, which is the meaning of sanctifying Himself here, He prays is praying for them to receive the Gift of Faith, and this petition of Christ is the primary reason all for whom He died shall be Sanctified by the Spirit of Truth unto the Belief of the Truth 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Folks it is impossible for anyone that Christ died for, whom He sanctified Himself for Jn 17:19-20, for them not to by the Work of the Spirit, believe the Truth of the word of Truth, if so, then His petition here in Jn 17:19-20 as well as His Death were of no avail. However His Death does ensure that all for whom He died has true Light communicated unto them Jn 1:9

9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man[Whom He died for] that cometh into the world.

The word lighteth here is the greek word phōtizō and means:


) to give light, to shine

2) to enlighten, light up, illumine

3) to bring to light, render evident

a) to cause something to exist and thus come to light and become clear to all

4) to enlighten, spiritually, imbue with saving knowledge

a) to instruct, to inform, teach

b) to give understanding to


This is also what Paul means here 2 Cor 4:6

For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

Thats the True Light of Jn 1:9 that gives the Knowledge of Christ through the Gospel, a Saving Knowledge which Faith is an component of ! 3
 

Albion

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I see no reason to further communicate with a dishonest person.

Well, that lasted all of two days.

18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

The standing by Faith is not anything we do, so it excludes boasting, as something man does as a condition to get saved !
Are you saying then that your own boasting about having been chosen as one of God's Elect is appropriate and right to do, but for other believers to boast about playing a part in their salvation (along with Faith) by performing works of charity as ordered by Christ would not be??
 

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Josiah

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Being among the Elect is nothing to boast about since we earned, achieved, desired NOTHING (but God's wrath). We "boast" in CHRIST and what CHRIST did, not self.


.
 

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brightfame52

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Jn 17:19-20 He Prays for Faith ! 2



A quick recap, the Lord Jesus Christ in Jn 17:19-20 in His Petition statement that by His sanctifying Himself [by death] that they whom He is dying for may as a result be Sanctified through the Truth See Vs 17 too ! In this statement Jesus is petitioning their Faith and belief of the Truth. There basically is no difference in their being Sanctified through the Truth or being Sanctified by Faith Acts 26:18

18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Yes, this here is the effect of what Jesus requested in Jn 17:19-20 !

Its the Spirit that accomplishes this work on behalf of Christ's death and its accomplishment, for He is sent into the world Christ died for by the Father and through Christ, and to them He is a Spirit of Truth that the world at large cannot receive Jn 14:17

Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

That being the world that Christ did not pray for Jn 17:9 and so did not die for ! But for that World he died for and prayed for He is sent as the Spirit of Truth Jn 16:13

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you [The Church, His Body] into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

He to them brings the Spirit of Faith 2 Cor 4:13

We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;

Notice here, the Spirit of Faith precedes believing what is written. The Gospel is composed of things that had been written as in scripture See 1 Cor 15:3-4 !

So thats why a Sanctification of the Spirit is necessary and given to the Elect, those Christ died for, unto the Belief or Faith in the Truth 2 Thess 2:13-14

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel
, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

If one is not experimentally Set apart by the Spirit, producing in them the fruit of Faith Gal 5:22, they will never in a savingly way believe the Gospel Truth ! But all whom Christ sanctified Himself in behalf shall believe it ! Jn 18:37

37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

Jn 10:16

And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
 

brightfame52

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Chosen to Believe the Truth !


All those who have been Chosen to Salvation from the beginning, they have also been Chosen to Faith or Belief of the Truth 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Therefore all them Whom God Chose in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4 shall be given Faith to believe the Truth, no ifs buts, or maybes about it, its sure ! This is an indictment against any and all who teach that no one is Chosen to Believe the Truth in Fact thats why its called the Faith of God's Elect Titus 1:1, for Faith and Election go hand and hand ! See Acts 13:48

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed. 3
 

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brightfame52

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Before we can believe the Gospel !



1 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Before any person can savingly believe the Glorious Gospel of God, he or she must first be rescued or delivered out of the power of satan and his darkness, which blinds the minds of them which believe not.

Acts 26:18

18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Col 1:13

13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Thats deliverance from unbelief, being delivered from the power of darkness !

The word darkness is the greek word skotos:

darkness

a) of night darkness

b) of darkened eyesight or blindness

2) metaph.

a) of ignorance respecting divine things and human duties, and the accompanying ungodliness and immorality, together with their consequent misery in hell

b) persons in whom darkness becomes visible and holds sway

Its this blindness one must be delivered from, blinded by satan, the god of this world 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

We must be delivered from that blindness of mind before we can believe the Glorious Gospel.

Now either God delivered us or we delivered ourselves. If we say we believed before we were saved and in order to get saved, then we believe we saved ourselves out of the power of darkness and bondage of satan !
 

brightfame52

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Precious Faith


2 Pet 1:1

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

The religionist are always boasting about their faith, as if precious Faith is that which man contributes as an act of theirs to secure their salvation, for that is such pride and boastful arrogance. The word describing faith here is precious, its the greek word isotimos which means:


equally precious

2) equally honoured, to be esteemed equal to


Its made up of Two root words isos:

equal, in quantity or quality

and timē:


valuing by which the price is fixed

a) of the price itself

b) of the price paid or received for a person or thing bought or sold

2) honour which belongs or is shown to one

a) of the honour which one has by reason of rank and state of office which he holds

The emphasis is on the value of the Faith and the like privilege of the Faith

It can also read:

From Simeon Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ, have been granted a faith just as precious as ours.

b) deference, reverence

Notice that precious is an adjective describing faith, and to be sure there is nothing precious or of value in the flesh of man, the natural man. Jesus says Jn 6:63

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Rom 3:12

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable or good for nothing; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Now does man , who in the flesh, as pertaining to godward things, is good for nothing, does that sound like precious Faith, which believes on Christ, comes from the flesh ? God forbid, that's Blasphemy.

The Truth be told is this, Precious Faith can never, not in a trillion years, be found in one who is flesh, dead in trespasses and sins, what can possible be Precious about such a one or in such a one ? Matt 23:27

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

Jess said this to perhaps the most moral and religious people of His Day. He once said of them from a human moral perspective Matt 5:20

For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Their lives outwardly and unto men appeared as beautiful outward, that's what successful religion does, it impresses men naturally !

But none of that foolishness impresses God, and none of it is precious in His Sight, or of any Value, and whatever type faith comes of it, is no more than that of a devil ! 3
 

Albion

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Precious Faith


2 Pet 1:1
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

Now does man , who in the flesh, as pertaining to godward things, is good for nothing, does that sound like precious Faith, which believes on Christ, comes from the flesh ?
No, but neither does the Apostle say such a thing. Peter is addressing those who have come to genuine faith in Christ and are set apart from the masses for that reason.
 

brightfame52

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No, but neither does the Apostle say such a thing. Peter is addressing those who have come to genuine faith in Christ and are set apart from the masses for that reason.
They were given Faith in Christ. They obtained it, cant you read ? Its wasnt inherent in them.
 

brightfame52

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Precious Faith 2


Therefore, Precious Faith that has to do with Salvation, with Faith in the Messiah, its obtained or received by being a alloted Gift of God, and that only to His Elect !

The CJB:

To: Those who, through the righteousness of our God and of our Deliverer Yeshua the Messiah, have been given the same kind of trust as ours:

The ERV:

Greetings from Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ.

To all of you who share in the same valuable faith that we have. This faith was given to us because our God and Savior Jesus Christ always does what is good and right.

The GNT:

To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have been given a faith as precious as ours:


Its an Gift of God Eph 2:8; Titus 1:1-2; The word obtained in 2 Pet 1:11 is lagchano:

obtain (receive) by lot, my lot (turn) is, (b) I draw lots.

to receive by divine allotment

Now lets understand what an allotment is. The word is not in scripture, but the word lot is See Ps 16:5.

The english word means:

to assign as a portion,the part of an estate that goes to an heir or a next of kin,to furnish with a portion, as with an inheritance or a dowry

Precious Believing Faith is an portion of an assigned Inheritance.

A Family Inheritance, and it that sense its a Gift Bestowed on the Heirs of that Inheritance.

Now what this means is that Faith is an alloted Gift, a portion of an Inheritance, to all the Heirs of Promise Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. or

Children of Promise Rom 9:8

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

And all the Heirs or Seed obtain by allotment Precious Faith through the Righteousness of their God Man Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ 2 Pet 1:1
 

brightfame52

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Faith to Believe in Christ is the Fruit of the Spirit !


Gal 5:22

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,


The Spirit is the Fruit of Christ's Death Jn 12:24

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

Most religionist in their desire to boast, reject the Truth that Faith to believe in Christ for Salvation, that its the fruit, the operation of the Spirit in one for whom Christ died Phil 1:29; 2:13 and it is not a natural mans response to the Gospel or some offer !

For it takes this fruit of Faith given by the Spirit, or it can be called the Spirit of Faith 2 Cor 4:13

13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;

13 The Tanakh says, “I trusted, therefore I spoke.” Since we have that same Spirit who enables us to trust, we also trust and therefore speak;

The Same Spirit that produced Faith in the OT Saints does also in the NT Saints in accordance with what is written in the scripture !

The Spirit gives persuasion and reality to the Divine Testimony or Report, which causes such Testimony to have a deep impression on the renewed mind [for you cannot put New Wine into Old Bottles] receiving the Testimony of God.

When it comes to Salvation, the Gospel is God's testimony to one who has been saved by His Son's Blood 1 Thess 2:13

13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

Believing the Gospel of Salvation also has an element of entrusting or committing oneself in Gospel Obedience which the natural man of the flesh cannot do Rom 8:7-8

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God

Now understand something about the law of God in Vs7. This word is not restricted to the mosaic law, but its meaning is much broader, for instance its defined as nomos:

usage, custom, law; in NT: of law in general, plur: of divine laws; of a force or influence impelling to action; of the Mosaic law; meton: of the books which contain the law, the Pentateuch, the Old Testament scriptures in general.

any system of religious thinking (theology),
especially when nomos occurs without the Greek definite article.

Notice, the Old Testament scriptures in General is considered Law, and the Gospel is Preached from the Old Testament Scriptures according to Paul 1 Cor 15:1-4

Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

During Paul's time only the OT Scriptures had been completed.

So to Believe Savingly into what the Scriptures reveal, would have been impossible for those yet in the flesh and carnal ! Only God given Faith by God the Spirit, the fruit of New Birth can and does cause one to Believe !4
 

brightfame52

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Heb 11:1 is Not Natural Human Faith !


Heb 11:1

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

This Faith is not that which is of the human nature, the natural man, or of the flesh. This is True because its gives evidence of things not seen by the natural eye, and the natural man is not capacitated to walk outside of its realm of creation, which is natural and things that are seen, for which reason Paul can say only to the regenerate or born again, We walk by Faith and not by Sight 2 Cor 5:5-7

5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight )

To begin a Walk by Faith we must first have been Given the Spirit.

The natural man can no more have this Faith [ Heb 11:1] in God as can a elephant ! Man by nature are as beasts. You can preach the Gospel of God to an elephant all day long, and it will never be able to believe it, so it is with the natural man, not born of the Spirit. Man before a miraculous New Birth is only natural 1 Cor 15:46

Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

That's why it is written, 1 Jn 5:1

Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

In the original it would read " whosoever is believing that Jesus is the Christ, has been born of God !

In other words, the believing in the Christos is an evidence of having been born of God. For its not until one is born again that we can believe things not discerned by human reason or sense 1 Cor 2:13-15

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. Note: Paul is speaking of the Gospel as the things he speaks !

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

This is key, notice, he that is spiritual [born f the Spirit] Judgeth all things, that is Doctrines of the Gospel.

The judging here is not natural matters, but spiritual matters, Spiritual Gospel Truths, Spiritual realties of the Person and Work of Jesus Christ, Christ Crucified as stipulated in Vs 2 of the same passage 1 Cor 2:2

And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.

2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

And Natural Human Faith cannot understand the Truths regarding this, but only a God Given Faith such as described in Heb 11:1,6 !
 

Albion

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They were given Faith in Christ. They obtained it, cant you read ? Its wasnt inherent in them.
No one said that it was inherent in them. Not me, and not anyone else in this thread.

But your habit of "reading thoughts into" what other people write is becoming quite stale. Either this is what you think you need to do when you're looking to launch a new attack against orthodox Christian doctrine, or else it may owe to English not being your first language. Which of those is it?
 

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We believed because ordained to Eternal Life !

Acts 13:48

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and glorified (praised and gave thanks for) the Word of God; and as many as were destined (appointed and ordained) to eternal life believed (adhered to, trusted in, and relied on Jesus as the Christ and their Savior).

48 This message made the Gentiles glad, and they praised what they had heard about the Lord. Everyone who had been chosen for eternal life then put their faith in the Lord.

The False teachers of our day would pervert this text and have it mean, as many as did believe were ordained to Eternal Life, but that is called wresting scripture, which all who do such, shall shortly give in account in the day of Judgment.

Believing because of having been ordained to eternal life is of the same Truth s that of being ordained to walk in good works Eph 2:10

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

10 For we are God’s [own] handiwork (His workmanship), recreated in Christ Jesus, [born anew] that we may do those good works which God predestined (planned beforehand) for us [taking paths which He prepared ahead of time], that we should walk in them [living the good life which He prearranged and made ready for us to live]. AMP

For Believing is merely one of many of those Good Works God ordained the Chosen in Christ [Eph 1:4] to walk in . To walk in Faith as their Father Abraham Rom 4:12

And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
Because they were Abraham's Seed Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Hence they are the Elect to Faith Obedience through Sanctification of the Spirit 1 Pet 1:2

Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience [of faith] and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

And that this Obedience is Faith or belief of the Truth is confirmed in Paul's similar comment here 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Its the obedience of Faith that the Spirit causes in them Rom 16:26

26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Yes, that's the Blessing of Abraham Gen 17:5

5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

So those believing in Jn 3:16 are exactly those ordained to Eternal Life Acts 13:48, who had been ordained to walk in Good Works like their Father Abraham Jn 8:39

They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

Believing is a Work, and a Good Work. Who can deny that Abraham's Works consisted mostly in evidences of His Faith or Believing God ?

Believing is a work, a act of the Mind or Heart, an obedience, however in this case its the act of the Newly Created man or woman Eph 2:10

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Yes, we must First be Created unto the Good Work of Faith or Believing, then we can walk in the Faith of our Father Abraham !
 

Albion

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Believing is a Work, and a Good Work.
No, it isn't. And what you've theorized about it is a gross mischaracterization of the meaning of "good works."

So here again is Ephesians 2:10 that you misconstrued:

"10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."

Anyone should be able to see that the meaning is that God wants his people to do good!! Jesus taught that idea at the Sermon on the Mount and elsewhere during his public ministry.

And it nowhere says that believing him is a good work or that good works contribute to our chances of salvation! That lifestyle is, however, the way that believers ought to act towards others...just because it is right to do. You don't know this??
 
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