Dinosaurs and Birds

[Faith]

Im LCMS and they don’t believe in macroevolution. So what am Ito make of this? Abandon my faith? Go back to Catholicism, which I don’t want to do, or what?

Cratonavis zhui: A Dinosaur-like Bird?​

Cratonavis zhui is an alleged link between dinosaurs and birds.

 

[Messy]

Abandon your evolution beliefs or keep them and don't care, cause it's not a salvation belief and I bet they're happy if you don't leave the church over that. I used to think it was true, cause the scientists said so, but now I believe it's just because of the flood that it looks like this has been laid down in billions or millions of years.

 

[Faith]

Abandon your evolution beliefs or keep them and don't care, cause it's not a salvation belief and I bet they're happy if you don't leave the church over that. I used to think it was true, cause the scientists said so, but now I believe it's just because of the flood that it looks like this has been laid down in billions or millions of years.

That was a good video but he doesn’t address this Dino-Birds thing specifically.

 

[Faith]

Abandon your evolution beliefs or keep them and don't care, cause it's not a salvation belief and I bet they're happy if you don't leave the church over that. I used to think it was true, cause the scientists said so, but now I believe it's just because of the flood that it looks like this has been laid down in billions or millions of years.

So are you a creationist or evolutionist?

 

[Albion]

Im LCMS and they don’t believe in macroevolution. So what am Ito make of this? Abandon my faith? Go back to Catholicism, which I don’t want to do, or what?

How many times has this matter apparently been settled, and then it's raised again in exactly the same form?

You seem unable to get over it--even though it's not a requirement for membership and plenty of LCMS members are believers in theistic evolution and known by the church to be so.

Be mindful that if you cannot be at ease with your conscience (which seems to be the case), you are logically in the position of having no Christian church or denomination available to you. It certainly would not be the Roman Catholic Church, with which you have even more doctrinal disagreements, and more serious ones, than you have with the LCMS.

In my humble opinion, you are concerned about something that has concerned me also in my life. I am not referring to evolution but to the fact that we want to associate with the cause or institution that is right! Especially when it comes to the things of God! But we find that, in a pluralistic society, there is none or almost none that meets the definition. No matter what club or political party or church or whatever...there seems always to be some gray areas tolerated and members who aren't really on board with all that the institution says it stands for. It's distressing.

HOWEVER, your particular problem is not nearly as desperate as most of these.

Why? Because the LCMS is renowned for sticking to the Bible and not wavering in the face of criticism. AND among all the Christian churches, it is almost as close as you can get to Catholicism (which you retain some sympathy for) in worship practices and much else.

 

[Faith]

How many times has this matter apparently been settled, and then it's raised again in exactly the same form?

You seem unable to get over it--even though it's not a requirement for membership and plenty of LCMS members are believers in theistic evolution and known by the church to be so.

Be mindful that if you cannot be at ease with your conscience (which seems to be the case), you are logically in the position of having no Christian church or denomination available to you. It certainly would not be the Roman Catholic Church, with which you have even more doctrinal disagreements, and more serious ones, than you have with the LCMS.

In my humble opinion, you are concerned about something that has concerned me also in my life. I am not referring to evolution but to the fact that we want to associate with the cause or institution that is right! Especially when it comes to the things of God! But we find that, in a pluralistic society, there is none or almost none that meets the definition. No matter what club or political party or church or whatever...there seems always to be some gray areas tolerated and members who aren't really on board with all that the institution says it stands for. It's distressing.

HOWEVER, your particular problem is not nearly as desperate as most of these.

Why? Because the LCMS is renowned for sticking to the Bible and not wavering in the face of criticism. AND among all the Christian churches, it is almost as close as you can get to Catholicism (which you retain some sympathy for) in worship practices and much else.

I have yet to meet another theistic evolutionist at my church. I’ve talked to quite a few and they’ve all told me they believe in creationism, not evolution. But yeah, you’ve given me much to think about,

 

[Josiah]

@Faith


Again.....

IF you ever choose to join an LCMS church.... IF you ever are confirmed in an LCMS parish... you will be asked to agree with ONE THING: The Small Catechism of Martin Luther (here: The Small Catechism ) Not a current publishing house's explanation of such but the actual document. "Do you agree with the teachings of the Lutheran Church as found in the Small Catechism of Martin Luther?" That would be what you will be asked. Nothing about Kansas City vs. Texas BBQ, nothing about Donald Trump, nothing about solar electrical panels.

IF you bother to read it (it takes about 10 minutes), you will discover that it says NOTHING about microevolution or dinosaurs or birds ... or whether there is life on Titan or or a host of other issues.

I suspect that lots of LCMS MEMBERS have OPINIONS about life on Titan or dinosours or Donald Trump or a LOT of other things. But that doesn't mean any of those opinions are the doctrine of the LCMS. And by the way, you will find lots of Catholic members who have opinions about life on Titan or dinosours or Donald Trump but that doesn't mean any of those are the doctrine of the Catholic Church. Indeed, as I understand it, NEITHER the LCMS or the RCC have declared dogma in either the Catechism of either the LCMS or RCC about any of those things. NEITHER do.

And friend, if your faith is in microevolution rather than Jesus - then "going back to Catholicism" isn't going to help you. Both denominations hold that our faith is to be in Christ. Microevolution is part of a theory of biology... I'd strongly suggest that you put your faith in Christ, not a current theory of biology.




.

 

[Faith]

@Faith


Again.....

IF you ever choose to join an LCMS church.... IF you ever are confirmed in an LCMS parish... you will be asked to agree with ONE THING: The Small Catechism of Martin Luther (here: The Small Catechism ) Not a current publishing house's explanation of such but the actual document. "Do you agree with the teachings of the Lutheran Church as found in the Small Catechism of Martin Luther?" That would be what you will be asked. Nothing about Kansas City vs. Texas BBQ, nothing about Donald Trump, nothing about solar electrical panels.

IF you bother to read it (it takes about 10 minutes), you will discover that it says NOTHING about microevolution or dinosaurs or birds ... or whether there is life on Titan or or a host of other issues.

I suspect that lots of LCMS MEMBERS have OPINIONS about life on Titan or dinosours or Donald Trump or a LOT of other things. But that doesn't mean any of those opinions are the doctrine of the LCMS. And by the way, you will find lots of Catholic members who have opinions about life on Titan or dinosours or Donald Trump but that doesn't mean any of those are the doctrine of the Catholic Church. Indeed, as I understand it, NEITHER the LCMS or the RCC have declared dogma in either the Catechism of either the LCMS or RCC about any of those things. NEITHER do.

And friend, if your faith is in microevolution rather than Jesus - then "going back to Catholicism" isn't going to help you. Both denominations hold that our faith is to be in Christ. Microevolution is part of a theory of biology... I'd strongly suggest that you put your faith in Christ, not a current theory of biology.




.

We dont have confirmation at our church anymore. And I’m already a member. We do have a thing for the kids called Sacrament Instruction but that can also be done at home, as a family. They stopped having confirmation due to studies that have shown that the kids make a huge deal about confirmation, getting a certificate etc. then dont follow through on their faith.

 

[Josiah]

We dont have confirmation at our church anymore. And I’m already a member. We do have a thing for the kids called Sacrament Instruction but that can also be done at home, as a family. They stopped having confirmation due to studies that have shown that the kids make a huge deal about confirmation, getting a certificate etc. then dont follow through on their faith.

Well, if you aren't asked to agree with anything that Lutheranism teaches, then why are you concerned about what Lutheranism teaches?



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[Messy]

That was a good video but he doesn’t address this Dino-Birds thing specifically.

No it's from years ago, but why do you care so much about that dino bird? Maybe God created a dinobird. There are flying dogs. Who knows. Or the nephilim mixed birds with dino's, like the book of Jasher says. Who knows. I don't really care. But to me it's nonsense to say dino's are billions or millions of years old when they found soft tissue.

 

[Messy]

So are you a creationist or evolutionist?

A creationist. When I studied physical geography 30 years ago I had to learn about rock layers, evolution and I believed that was true, cause science said so and maybe God meant 6 periods of billions of years, cause a day is like 1000 years. Later I saw some video about young earth creationism and trees went through those layers and the athmosphere was different, so it looked older, so I believed that and then I read about GAP theory, that first there was a world with dino's and God started over in Genesis and I believed that, but when I saw they found soft tissue, blood vessels in dino's and I have to believe that's billions of years old, no way.

Book of Jasher chapter 4:

and the sons of men in those days took from the cattle of the earth, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and taught the mixture of animals of one species with the other, in order therewith to provoke the Lord; and God saw the whole earth and it was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted its ways upon earth, all men and all animals.

 

[Faith]

Well, if you aren't asked to agree with anything that Lutheranism teaches, then why are you concerned about what Lutheranism teaches?



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I don’t know. Maybe bc I’m a rule follower. It just bothers me and I don’t know why.

 

[Faith]

No it's from years ago, but why do you care so much about that dino bird? Maybe God created a dinobird. There are flying dogs. Who knows. Or the nephilim mixed birds with dino's, like the book of Jasher says. Who knows. I don't really care. But to me it's nonsense to say dino's are billions or millions of years old when they found soft tissue.

The book of Jasher isnt part of the Bible.

 

[Messy]

The book of Jasher isnt part of the Bible.

I know, but who knows, it may be true. Evolution isn't in the Bible either. Or God just created em like that. I don't know. I wasn't there. Evolutionists act like they know. They weren't there. They ignore Noah's flood completely. The flood explains how the layers were formed.
Over all the world are similar old tales from Noah's flood. Perfect proof that it's true, but they act like all those people were nuts and primitive and coincidentally the same sort of pyramids are in South America and Egypt.

 

[Messy]

 

[Messy]

This is awesome stuff. That guy is so enthusiastic. This is about layers.

 

[Faith]

This is awesome stuff. That guy is so enthusiastic. This is about layers.

Thanks for the videos