Faith

[brightfame52]

Do you believe this?:

1689 London Confession – Ripley Primitive Baptist Church

Chapter 11​

JUSTIFICATION​

11.1 Those whom God effectually calls he also freely justifies.1 He does this, not by infusing righteousness into them, but by pardoning their sins, and by accounting and accepting them as righteous,2 not for anything done in them or by them, but for Christ’s sake alone.3 They are not justified because God imputes4 as their righteousness either their faith itself, or the act of believing, or any other act of obedience to the gospel. They are justified by God imputing Christ’s active obedience to the whole law and his passive obedience in death. By faith they receive and rest on his righteousness, and this faith they do no have of themselves for it is the gift of God.5


11.2 Faith which receives and rests on Christ and his righteousness is the sole instrument of justification.1 Yet it is never alone in the person justified, but is always accompanied by all the other saving graces; it is not a dead faith, for it functions by love.2


11.3 By his obedience and death, Christ fully discharged the debt of all those who are justified. By his sacrifice in the blood of his cross, he underwent in their place the penalty due to them, so making an appropriate, real, and full satisfaction of God’s justice on their behalf.1 Yet their justification is entirely of free grace, because he was given by the Father for them,2 and his obedience and satisfaction was accepted in their place,3 both actions being done freely, and not because of anything in them.4 So both the exact justice and the rich grace of God are glorified in the justification of sinners.5


11.4 From all eternity God decreed to justify all the elect,1 and Christ in the fullness of time died for their sins, and rose again for their justification.2 Nevertheless they are not justified personally until the Holy Spirit in due time actually applies Christ to them.3


11.5 God continues to forgive the sins of those who are justified;1 and although they can never fall from the state of justification,2 yet they may fall under God’s fatherly displeasure because of their sins. In that condition they will not usually have fellowship with God3 restored to them until they humble themselves, confess their sins, ask for pardon, and renew their faith and repentance.4


11.6 The justification of believers under the Old Testament was in all these respects exactly the same as the justification of believers under the New Testament.1

There is a thread running here about Justification and Im very explicit about what I believe in that thread:

Who is "him that justifieth the ungodly"?

In rom 4:5 Paul wants us to believe in someone who "justifies the ungodly", i was just wondering who that is, exactly?

christianityhaven.com

 

[Messy]

Post 86 Did you read it and understand it ?

I understand that God first pours His Spirit on them and then they get saved. Never saw that. Interesting. But I don't see that for instance that Jewish nasty man who threatens those OneforIsrael guys, he can be part of the remnant and get saved in the end and he can get baptized in the Spirit before getting saved, although it's the other way around in Acts, no problem, the text says it, but at this moment that guy is not just or holy or seated in heaven with Christ. He's now an enemy of the Gospel. God may see the potential how He will make him, but he is not just now and God can see it if you're wrong. He doesn't see those He warns in Revelation as spotless and holy and just, even if they repent and do their first works again.

 

[brightfame52]

I understand that God first pours His Spirit on them and then they get saved. Never saw that. Interesting. But I don't see that for instance that Jewish nasty man who threatens those OneforIsrael guys, he can be part of the remnant and get saved in the end and he can get baptized in the Spirit before getting saved, although it's the other way around in Acts, no problem, the text says it, but at this moment that guy is not just or holy or seated in heaven with Christ. He's now an enemy of the Gospel. God may see the potential how He will make him, but he is not just now and God can see it if you're wrong. He doesn't see those He warns in Revelation as spotless and holy and just, even if they repent and do their first works again.

It shows that one doesnt look to Christ by Faith until they are given the Spirit.

 

[Messy]

It shows that one doesnt look to Christ by Faith until they are given the Spirit.

In that case yes, but not in Acts 2.

37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?”

38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the [k]remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”


They look to Christ when they are given the Gospel, the Word and it falls in good seed and produces fruit.

Romans 10
For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, “The man who does those things shall live by them.” 6 But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ down from above) 7 or, “ ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent?

 

[brightfame52]

In that case yes, but not in Acts 2.

37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?”

38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the [k]remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”


They look to Christ when they are given the Gospel, the Word and it falls in good seed and produces fruit.

Romans 10
For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, “The man who does those things shall live by them.” 6 But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ down from above) 7 or, “ ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent?

In all cases, especially Acts 2.

 

[Messy]

It shows that one doesnt look to Christ by Faith until they are given the Spirit.

Yes you're right. I looked it up. Of course. The Spirit and Word together produce Life. Peter preached the Word and the Spirit worked on their heart and explained it.
Only dry Bible texts without the Spirit explaining it does nothing. I could memorize John 3:16 when I didn't believe in God and I had no clue what it even meant. Any Bible text. Had no clue. I was blind. I didn't get it. I had never heard the Gospel. I went to a christian school, but they didn't say that you were a sinner, had to confess your sins and Jesus died for you on the cross.

Faith comes by hearing of the Word of Christ.

John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.”

You only get saved by the Holy Spirit and the Word.

John 16
And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment

13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you.

 

[brightfame52]

Yes you're right. I looked it up. Of course. The Spirit and Word together produce Life. Peter preached the Word and the Spirit worked on their heart and explained it.
Only dry Bible texts without the Spirit explaining it does nothing. I could memorize John 3:16 when I didn't believe in God and I had no clue what it even meant. Any Bible text. Had no clue. I was blind. I didn't get it. I had never heard the Gospel. I went to a christian school, but they didn't say that you were a sinner, had to confess your sins and Jesus died for you on the cross.

Faith comes by hearing of the Word of Christ.

John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.”

You only get saved by the Holy Spirit and the Word.

John 16
And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment

13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you.

The Spirit gives Life. Jn 6:63


It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

The word quickeneth means gives life

 

[brightfame52]

Faith , Blessings of His Death !

The Blessings of Christ death for those He did die for and in behalf of, will cause them to believe in Him, For believing in Christ is given to them He died for, on His Behalf Phil 1:29. God makes them believe as promised here Zep 3:12

12 I will also leave in the midst of thee an afflicted and poor people, and they shall trust in the name of the Lord.

And Romans 15:12

12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.

Or in Him shall the gentiles seek as in Faith. The word Trust is the same word hope as in Heb 11:1,6

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

 

[brightfame52]

Faith in God and Christ is a matter of Mercy !


Rom 11:32

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Faith in God and Christ is a matter of Mercy , in other words, in order to become a believer in Christ for Salvation, we must obtain Mercy, or God must have Mercy on us. Paul says 1 Tim 12-13

12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;

13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

Salvation is undeserved, Faith in Christ is undeserved, and God's Mercy finds us in unbelief or disobedience and ignorance !

Paul is saying nothing nothing different than what he wrote here to the Romans Rom 11:30-32

30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy[To believe] through their unbelief:

31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy[To believe].

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

This shows us actually that instead of of faith or believing being conditions one must meet to become saved or to get mercy, instead being in unbelief and disobedience is the condition one must be in to obtain mercy that saves us. That we are saved by Mercy is Taught here Titus 3:5

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Many adversaries of the Truth will say that God does not save unbelievers, but in fact what has been just testified to in scripture proves, evidences that He does, for if He did not, there would be no need of His Mercy, and there would never be any believers, for believers are unbelievers saved by God's Mercy ! 3

 

[Lees]

It shows that one doesnt look to Christ by Faith until they are given the Spirit.

I have never really agreed with this statement. I would say, of course, the Holy Spirit opens the eyes of the one about to be saved. But that doesn't mean the opening of their eyes is equivelent to being born-again.

None are born-again until they confess their faith in Christ.

You say in your latest post #(109), that God saves unbelievers. Which is true. But what does that prove? Nothing.

Were Adam and Eve unbelievers? No. Did they need saving? Yes.

Now what?

Lees

 

[Albion]

I have never really agreed with this statement. I would say, of course, the Holy Spirit opens the eyes of the one about to be saved. But that doesn't mean the opening of their eyes is equivelent to being born-again.

None are born-again until they confess their faith in Christ.

You say in your latest post #(109), that God saves unbelievers. Which is true. But what does that prove?

It probably would prove that the Holy Spirit (God) calls everyone, having given everyone a chance at eternal life through the Sacrifice of the Cross...and then they either receive Christ or they harden their hearts and reject it all.

 

[Lees]

It probably would prove that the Holy Spirit (God) calls everyone, having given everyone a chance at eternal life through the Sacrifice of the Cross...and then they either receive Christ or they harden their hearts and reject it all.

Were Adam and Eve unbelievers? Did they need saving?

Lees

 

[brightfame52]

I have never really agreed with this statement. I would say, of course, the Holy Spirit opens the eyes of the one about to be saved. But that doesn't mean the opening of their eyes is equivelent to being born-again.

None are born-again until they confess their faith in Christ.

You say in your latest post #(109), that God saves unbelievers. Which is true. But what does that prove? Nothing.

Were Adam and Eve unbelievers? No. Did they need saving? Yes.

Now what?

Lees

One doesnt have faith until they are born of the Spirit.

 

[Lees]

One doesnt have faith until they are born of the Spirit.

You make bold statements...but ignore the questions. Why?

I will tell you why. Because you have no answer. Why don't you have an answer? Because you can't prove it by the Scripture. All you can do is 'say it' and hope all will 'buy it'.

But I don't buy it. So, prove me wrong and answer the questions.

Lees

 

[brightfame52]

You make bold statements...but ignore the questions. Why?

I will tell you why. Because you have no answer. Why don't you have an answer? Because you can't prove it by the Scripture. All you can do is 'say it' and hope all will 'buy it'.

But I don't buy it. So, prove me wrong and answer the questions.

Lees

I have given you scripture why for my statements, if you ignore them, thats on you.

 

[brightfame52]

It probably would prove that the Holy Spirit (God) calls everyone, having given everyone a chance at eternal life through the Sacrifice of the Cross...and then they either receive Christ or they harden their hearts and reject it all.

The Holy Spirit calls them He Himself sanctifies unto the belief of the Truth 2 Thess 2:13-14

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Albion]

The Holy Spirit calls them He Himself sanctifies unto the belief of the Truth 2 Thess 2:13-14

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Sounds like agreement with what I wrote.

 

[brightfame52]

Sounds like agreement with what I wrote.

I dont think so, no where close.

 

[Lees]

I have given you scripture why for my statements, if you ignore them, thats on you.

Sorry...you have given me nothing. And you refuse to respond to my post #(110). And don't say your reply in post #(113) was a response. It was nothing but ignoring what I said.

So, again, I ask you, were Adam and Eve unbelievers? Did they need saving?

Here's other questions you can ignore. When did the possibility of being 'born-again' begin? Were there belilevers in the Old Testament?

Please answer.

Lees

 

[brightfame52]

Sorry...you have given me nothing. And you refuse to respond to my post #(110). And don't say your reply in post #(113) was a response. It was nothing but ignoring what I said.

So, again, I ask you, were Adam and Eve unbelievers? Did they need saving?

Here's other questions you can ignore. When did the possibility of being 'born-again' begin? Were there belilevers in the Old Testament?

Please answer.

Lees

Now you being dishonest. And I see no reason to further communicate with a dishonest person.