18-year-old nonbinary high school senior

[Jazzy]

Things didn’t go as planned when B Hayes, a senior at a Nashville, Tenn. private Christian school, showed up at their senior prom, ready to celebrate. Instead, the teen was denied entry for wearing a suit instead of a dress — something the school insists goes against “established dress requirements” laid out in a handbook that all students must sign at the start of each year.

On April 23, Hayes, who identifies as nonbinary, took to Instagram to share a photo of themselves standing outside of the prom venue, holding a sign that read: “They wouldn’t let me in because I’m in a suit.”

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Do you think the teen should have been denied entry for wearing a suit? (Why/Why Not)

 

[Lamb]

It's a private Christian school and it sounds to me as if the student is protesting their values more than a dresscode.

 

[Bluezone777]

I'd say a more accurate sign would read " They wouldn't let me in because I refused to follow the rules I agreed to follow when I started the year at this private school." When you phrase it that way, you see how weak the complain is and how easy it should be to dismiss it. A part of being mature is following through on your promises such as following rules that you agreed to follow. You don't get to decide when the rules apply to you or not.

 

[ValleyGal]

Women wear suits all the time. Men wear suits all the time. Lawyers, managers and other business people, attending formal gatherings, politicians, etc. Does the code at the school explicitly say that girls must wear a dress to their prom? No? Then they should have been admitted. Personally I think it might have been more a state of rite of passage for the teen - a statement saying "I went by your rules all these years and now I am an adult and can finally be who I am."

As a Christian school, it would have been more loving to allow the teen in, to show that they are not going to pass judgement on them as a person, and love and accept them despite their sexual identification. This kind of publicity actually contributes to Christian's own persecution and discrimination. The world hates us because we pass these kinds of judgements and they perceive that as self-righteousness, holier-than-thou, arrogant religious people that they want nothing to do with. And I don't blame them. But Christianity as a whole doesn't seem to understand the role they play in their own persecution, and then they (as a whole) whine that "the world hates us and treats us badly."

Where I live we have a Christian university that has rules - sex outside of marriage is unacceptable and they do not allow men in the women's dorms or women in the men's dorms. But they do accept students who do not identify as cis-straight, as long as there is no sex outside of marriage. The university decided to start offering a law program, but there was a big political and legal kerfufle about allowing law grads to practice due to the "discrimination" of campus policies. I'm sorry, but exactly how does this affect their ability to practice law???

In the same way, how exactly does a non-binary student wearing a suit to prom affect the student's status as a grad? As a grad, they have a foot out the door anyway... I say let them in and celebrate with them so they feel loved and accepted. Otherwise, keep them out and they will turn against the faith forever.

 

[Albion]

B Hayes, a senior at a Nashville, Tenn. private Christian school, showed up at their senior prom...On April 23, Hayes, who identifies as nonbinary, took to Instagram to share a photo of themselves standing outside of the prom venue, holding a sign that read: “They wouldn’t let me in because I’m in a suit.

Isn't it interesting that the news report took pains to follow woke rules and referred to B Hayes as "their" and "themselves," but the "non-binary" student herself chose to write "wouldn't let me in because I'm in a suit.?"

 

[Lamb]

Just wait until that person tries to get a job where a uniform is mandatory and shows up in something else...then wonders why he/she got fired.

 

[Albion]

I say let them in and celebrate with them so they feel loved and accepted. Otherwise, keep them out and they will turn against the faith forever.

It probably would be possible to reduce "the faith" to some principle that no one could dispute (like "love everyone you're supposed to love"), and doing this might increase membership, but of course it wouldn't be "the faith" anymore.

 

[tango]

Isn't it interesting that the news report took pains to follow woke rules and referred to B Hayes as "their" and "themselves," but the "non-binary" student herself chose to write "wouldn't let me in because I'm in a suit.?"

What term would you expect someone to use to describe themselves? When talking about someone else we would use he/she/they but when talking about ourselves we use I/me. There is no gender in "I" and "me".

 

[Albion]

What term would you expect someone to use to describe themselves?

That might depend on whom we are referring to.

 

[tango]

That might depend on whom we are referring to.

Not really, we might argue over the use of he/she/they for people whose gender expression isn't what we might expect but when would someone refer to themselves with words other than I/me etc? Unless someone is referring to themselves in the third person, which in this particular context would appear hugely pretentious.

 

[ValleyGal]

It probably would be possible to reduce "the faith" to some principle that no one could dispute (like "love everyone you're supposed to love"), and doing this might increase membership, but of course it wouldn't be "the faith" anymore.

Why would anyone want to participate in a religion that judges some people and makes them feel unworthy of salvation or identification with their religion? If I hadn't had an intense love experience with Jesus apart from "the church", I would have chosen Zen. Seriously. They accept everyone and don't judge based on gender identity, colour, socioeconomic status, marital status, size, etc. And they are a peaceful people rather than the high-strung judgy Christian types. I wish my experience of "churched" people was better, but that is the religion in Canada where I have been most judged. Even here.

 

[Stravinsk]

Why would anyone want to participate in a religion that judges some people and makes them feel unworthy of salvation or identification with their religion? If I hadn't had an intense love experience with Jesus apart from "the church", I would have chosen Zen. Seriously. They accept everyone and don't judge based on gender identity, colour, socioeconomic status, marital status, size, etc. And they are a peaceful people rather than the high-strung judgy Christian types. I wish my experience of "churched" people was better, but that is the religion in Canada where I have been most judged. Even here.

Because presumably people join different faiths based in part on their beliefs and practices?

 

[Stravinsk]

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Do you think the teen should have been denied entry for wearing a suit? (Why/Why Not)

If it was clearly against their rules, then yes. The school apparently made sure all students were informed of their policy, so it wouldn't have been a surprise to this student. Taking a picture with that sign and posting it online was clearly an attempt to embarrass the school and gain sympathy, so I have to wonder where this actually all started, probably not with a prom night and dress code. If the student didn't believe in the values of the school, perhaps the fault lies in part with the parents for sending her there.

 

[Albion]

Why would anyone want to participate in a religion that judges some people and makes them feel unworthy of salvation or identification with their religion?

Is that a way of asking "why would anyone want to associate with a religion that has any standards of right and wrong or which countenances such an idea as rules of behavior?"

Well, every one of the world's great religions does.

If I hadn't had an intense love experience with Jesus apart from "the church", I would have chosen Zen. Seriously. They accept everyone and don't judge based on gender identity, colour, socioeconomic status, marital status, size, etc.

You seem to be describing "an intense love experience" with a Jesus of your own imagination, since what you've written here bears little similarity to the Jesus of history.

 

[Faith]

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Do you think the teen should have been denied entry for wearing a suit? (Why/Why Not)

Yes. She signed the handbook at the beginning of the year. Also I hate it when they use improper pronouns such as “share a photo of themselves”.

 

[Lamb]

I brought up with my former English teacher about using "they/them" in the singular instead of plural and he informed me that I was incorrect and didn't pay attention in his class (oof). The history lesson he gave me was that they and them was used as far back as the 1300s in the singular and mostly when the gender was unknown, just to make things cleaner in the sentence. I personally prefer to use he/she or him/her when I'm writing, but a lot of sites indicate that it is too clunky to do that.

And of course, people are using that type of wording they/them to force inclusiveness and demand that we evolve.

 

[Messy]

In the same way, how exactly does a non-binary student wearing a suit to prom affect the student's status as a grad? As a grad, they have a foot out the door anyway... I say let them in and celebrate with them so they feel loved and accepted. Otherwise, keep them out and they will turn against the faith forever.

I think the whole prom thing is dumb anyway. What's christian about a prom? If you want to keep it christian, forbid em to dance, except when it's dancing for Jesus, let em wear long sleeves.
When I just got saved I went to a church and I wore my brother's pants, cause I wanted to look like a guy. Leviticus women may not wear men clothes. What did I know? So that youth pastor would get mad and preach about it and he said that we were going to another church and I want all you ladies to wear a nice dress. We must be a good example. I didnt even have a dress. I borrowed an old dress from my mom. She had a bunch of dresses. My goodness. We were all around 16. We looked like a bunch of old cows with these clothes. And then we came in that other church and those guys wore leather jackets and jeans LOL.
Yes let her be. Who cares. God can show someone what's right or wrong. He doesn't need someone else to forbid or force how you dress. We had a guy in that church who just got saved a few years ago and he was always so happy and enthusiastic. He would lead the worship. But oh boy he was a big fat sinner. He did not wear a tie. They barked at him because he did not wear a tie and he left the church, sad. He was not allowed to lead the worship anymore if he did not wear a tie. I met him years later outside and he said that. It was really sad. They had that with the hippie revival, those suit ppl who didn't want to let em in initially.

 

[Albion]

There seems to be some confusion between what is a moral absolute and what is a human regulation. We obey the rules of the library when we're there and don't take the books without checking them out, and we obey the regulations presented to us in the city parks concerning the grass and parking lots, etc....

But when it comes to a PRIVATE school that no one is obliged to attend, we think its rules, created so that there can be some sort of order maintained, should be up to each individual whether to abide by them or not? Really?

That just doesn't make sense.

 

[Messy]

There seems to be some confusion between what is a moral absolute and what is a human regulation. We obey the rules of the library when we're there and don't take the books without checking them out, and we obey the regulations presented to us in the city parks concerning the grass and parking lots, etc....

But when it comes to a PRIVATE school that no one is obliged to attend, we think its rules, created so that there can be some sort of order maintained, should be up to each individual whether to abide by them or not? Really?

That just doesn't make sense.

Hmm yes a school may have their own rules, but a christian school may push someone away from God this way. I would think: Why does she dress like that? Was she raped? You can't force someone to wear a dress. And she wears something normal. She doesn't walk around like a drag queen to irritate them on purpose.

 

[tango]

I brought up with my former English teacher about using "they/them" in the singular instead of plural and he informed me that I was incorrect and didn't pay attention in his class (oof). The history lesson he gave me was that they and them was used as far back as the 1300s in the singular and mostly when the gender was unknown, just to make things cleaner in the sentence. I personally prefer to use he/she or him/her when I'm writing, but a lot of sites indicate that it is too clunky to do that.

And of course, people are using that type of wording they/them to force inclusiveness and demand that we evolve.

I've often used they/them to refer to an individual if the gender is unknown. They/them/their feels cleaner then endlessly writing "he or she" etc so even with the increasing silliness these days it's workable even without trying to take inclusiveness to the nth degree.

I remember one of the official documents I got from my university before attending used gender-specific pronouns throughout and one of the introductory clauses clearly stated that the use of one gender pronoun implied the other gender pronoun unless the context was clear that it did not.