Faith

[Messy]

Some are predestined to condemnation. Jude 1:4
For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, "Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints,
15 to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."


God foreknows who will not serve Him. That's how I see it. Not that He randomly picks and chooses some ppl with a lottery.

 

[Albion]

Some are predestined to condemnation. Jude 1:4
For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

But the reference in that verse isn't to predestination as we have been discussing it. The reference there is to earlier events and people described in the Scriptures.

As also with the later people and events that were spoken of in Jude 1:4, those earlier people were "ungodly" types who "perverted the grace of God," etc.

 

[brightfame52]

Faith is Spiritual !

Faith is Spiritual , and its living [as in a lively hope 1 Pet 1:3] for it is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen ! This definition in and of itself confirms that the Natural Man cannot have Faith, because as so, we walk by sight 2 Cor 5:7

(For we walk by faith, not by sight )

Faith is the evidence of the Spiritual Life and without Spiritual Life there can be no Living Faith. The Blessed Saviour said once Jn 5:24

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Jesus is not saying if one believes they will get Eternal Life, no but quite the opposite, rather He s saying, the one believing, already has Everlasting Life, for ones believing gives Evidence of having Everlasting Life ! For Faith or the act of Believing does not produce Life, but Rather Life produces Faith.

There is no Spiritual Persuasion to one who is yet spiritually dead and alienated from the Life of God, and consequently have no life in them Jn 6:53

Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Eating and Drinking are metaphorically symbolizing Believing on Christ, appropriating Him, acts of life, and ones not doing that give evidence of having no life [Spiritual] in them ! Activity springs from life !

Jesus is not speaking of natural and physical life, for of course they had that !

 

[Albion]

Faith is Spiritual !

I think we all know that. Faith isn't a physical object, etc.

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Jesus is not saying if one believes they will get Eternal Life,

Yes, actually he is.

There is no Spiritual Persuasion to one who is yet spiritually dead and alienated from the Life of God, and consequently have no life in them Jn 6:53

Again, you define Faith as a mere "by-product" of Election that is experienced automatically by those few whom God has chosen from all eternity to save. However, in the verse you cited here (Jn 6:53) and in the following verses, what we are told is this--

The flesh and blood of Christ are symbols of Christ's life and work on Earth, as well as the fruits of that ministry that we've been discussing. These involved the torturing and killing of his body and the shedding of his blood. And it is by Faith that we (any of us) can appropriate or partake of the benefits of Christ's sacrifice.

 

[brightfame52]

albion

I think we all know that. Faith isn't a physical object, etc.

A lot of people think faith in salvation is a natural ability, very few I read believe that its a fruit of the Spirit, in the new creature.

 

[Albion]

albion



A lot of people think faith in salvation is a natural ability, very few I read believe that its a fruit of the Spirit, in the new creature.

I'm sure that there are such people, but the church has typically understood and taught the message correctly, so I hope you agree that when we're discussing these things it's a good policy not to make it sound as though Christianity has lost its way, etc.

 

[brightfame52]

I'm sure that there are such people, but the church has typically understood and taught the message correctly, so I hope you agree that when we're discussing these things it's a good policy not to make it sound as though Christianity has lost its way, etc.

Im just telling you how it is, most people believe everyone has faith, but its only given to Gods elect at regeneration, its specifically the Faith of Gods elect Titus 1:1-2

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

 

[brightfame52]

Some are predestined to condemnation. Jude 1:4
For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, "Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints,
15 to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."


God foreknows who will not serve Him. That's how I see it. Not that He randomly picks and chooses some ppl with a lottery.

God didnt randomly chose people to die in and for their sins, He purposed it before the world began. He created some people as what scripture calls vessels of wrath and He fits them for destruction Rom 9:20-23

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

The vessels of wrath are for His Glory

 

[Messy]

God didnt randomly chose people to die in and for their sins, He purposed it before the world began. He created some people as what scripture calls vessels of wrath and He fits them for destruction Rom 9:20-23

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

The vessels of wrath are for His Glory

Yes I started a topic about that. He says that the vessel changed in the hand of the potter and then He turned it into something else. It's from Jeremiah.

 

[brightfame52]

Yes I started a topic about that. He says that the vessel changed in the hand of the potter and then He turned it into something else. It's from Jeremiah.

Oh No, He created them for destruction in Rom 9, for His Glory

 

[Messy]

Oh No, He created them for destruction in Rom 9, for His Glory

The potter from Jeremia changed the pot when it rebelled. God can't actively create someone who is evil, because He is good. He can only give someone over to satan, who hardened his heart himself, as in give up on them and use em for another purpose.

but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’

 

[Albion]

Im just telling you how it is, most people believe everyone has faith, but its only given to Gods elect at regeneration, its specifically the Faith of Gods elect

I get that such is your view of things, and you're not about to hear of anything different, so why don't we come up with a new topic of discussion? Still on Christian Theology, of course.

 

[brightfame52]

The potter from Jeremia changed the pot when it rebelled. God can't actively create someone who is evil, because He is good. He can only give someone over to satan, who hardened his heart himself, as in give up on them and use em for another purpose.

but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’

In Rom 9 its revealed that some people were made by God to be fitted for destruction Rom 9:20-22

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

They are called by God the vessels of wrath !

 

[MoreCoffee]

I see that some of you have moved away from discussing what faith is - which is the topic outlined in the original post - and on to discussing Calvinist doctrine. I wish you'd keep to the thread's topic.

 

[Messy]

I see that some of you have moved away from discussing what faith is - which is the topic outlined in the original post - and on to discussing Calvinist doctrine. I wish you'd keep to the thread's topic.

Sorry. It's the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen. It comes by hearing of the Word of Christ. It's like a muscle and can grow from faith with unbelief (Peter sinking) to strong faith (sick getting healed in his shadow). If you want to build it, listen non stop to Bible texts about the thing you need. Believe you have received it and you shall have it. Everyone who got saved got the measurement of faith. The gift of faith is God's faith. That even works when you don't believe it yourself and doubt. Faith without works is dead.

 

[brightfame52]

Faith is an Evidence of Union with Christ !

Faith in Christ does not give us a spiritual union with Christ, but is the evidence of such a Union with Christ. For faith is the evidence of things hoped for Heb 11:1

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

And so it is Faith cannot be the thing it evidences as a reality, and the reality that is unseen must exist before . Now the Reality is that believers, before believing were the Children of God by Union with Christ. Yes we are already Children of God by Union before Believing on Christ which is the evidence of that Union.

And it is because of that Union with Christ before we become believers, of which we are the Children of God, God sends His Spirit in our Hearts Gal 4:6

6 And because ye are sons or descendants, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

By which Spirit we receive a witness to ourselves that we are the Children of God Rom 8:16

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

And so, those who do believe in Jesus have the witness in themselves 1 Jn 5:10

10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness or evidence in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

The Spirit being given as in Gal 4:6 is the Evidence that we had a Union with Christ before believing that we were by that Union, Children of God. We were Joint Heirs with Christ in the Eternal Counsels of God ! Rom 8:17

And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

That word Joint denotes Union with Christ ! 2

 

[grumix8]

Faith is something we all have and he gives us so to show his relationship with us it faith that is important but love is greater. You have to love and faith to grow in our hearts.

 

[Albion]

Faith is something we all have

Obviously not, or else you are using the word in a non-religious sense.

 

[Messy]

Obviously not, or else you are using the word in a non-religious sense.

Or us means us, we christians.

 

[brightfame52]

New Birth before Faith !

One of the most obvious truths of scripture, which is that New Birth or being born of the Spirit must have first occurred before one can believe on Christ for Salvation, this is true simply because such an act is pleasing to God Heb 11:6

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

1 Jn 3:22-23

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Now surely from here we see that Believing on the Name of Jesus Christ is a commandment we do or keep that pleases God.

And yet we know that they which are in the flesh [Unregenerate] cannot please God Per Rom 8:8 !

Hence if one does please God by by believing on the name of Jesus Christ, then it stands to reason, that such a one had to be not in the flesh, not in a unregenerate state, but one who instead that had been born of the Spirit be able to do it and to please God !