Faith

[brightfame52]

morecoffee

So, is faith the same as knowing? is faith the same as certainty?

Yes. The word faith is made up out of the word peithō :

1. to persuade, i.e. to induce one by words to believe

Paul said 2 Tim 1:12

For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

Also when God says the New Covenant recipients will Know Him, thats giving them the Gift of Faith Heb 8:10-11

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

Jesus secures unto them this Knowledge/Faith Jn 17:3

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

 

[Albion]

morecoffee



Yes. The word faith is made up out of the word peithō :

1. to persuade, i.e. to induce one by words to believe

The word itself is just that--a term that, like many others, has several different meanings, depending upon context.

When used in a Christian and religious context, it doesn't just mean trusting in something or other, such as believing fully that Tom Brady will actually retire or that Biden will not serve out his term in office.

 

[brightfame52]

The word itself is just that--a term that, like many others, has several different meanings, depending upon context.

When used in a Christian and religious context, it doesn't just mean trusting in something or other, such as believing fully that Tom Brady will actually retire or that Biden will not serve out his term in office.

I dont know what you talking about or the relevance of it

 

[Albion]

I dont know what you talking about or the relevance of it

How unfortunate. I was responding to your post #21 concerning the meaning of faith.

I realized that you were responding there to the Original Post in which the author took care not to promote any one slant on the subject. He instead was challenging the rest of us to offer our own views concerning the concept that we call faith.

 

[brightfame52]

2 Pet 1:1

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

Peter in this scripture does inform us where precious Faith comes from ! Its certainly not of ourselves Eph 2:8.

It comes in or with the Righteousness of God and Our Saviour, this Righteousness is the free gift that Christ purchased and bestows upon all for whom He died Rom 5:17

For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ)

This Righteousness as well as that referred to in 2 Pet 1:1 is the imparted Righteousness of Christ we receive at New Birth. It is through this imparted or communicated Righteousness at New Birth we receive of, that with it we are given precious Faith.

Peter goes on to say 2 Pet 1:3-4

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Faith or precious Faith is of the many things Given to us by New Birth which gives us to live a life of godliness !

So 2 Pet 1:1 is but another scripture that proves biblically that Faith is the product of New Birth, partaking experimentally of the Divine Nature !

 

[Albion]

Error/Deleted

 

[prism]

one must suffer because one has expressed faith in someone or something that others want to stop and will persecute to try to stop it.

That reminds me of this passage...

Galatians 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

In this case those born of the promise were persecuted by those born of the flesh.

 

[MoreCoffee]

That reminds me of this passage...

Galatians 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

In this case those born of the promise were persecuted by those born of the flesh.

It is still the case that some who do not believe persecute those that do, once they perceive that the Christian believes in Jesus.

 

[prism]

It is still the case that some who do not believe persecute those that do, once they perceive that the Christian believes in Jesus.

Yes, I believe that’s essentially what that passage is saying.

 

[brightfame52]

The Just shall live by Faith !

Rom 1:16-17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Do we understand what this is saying or promising ? Its an declaration that everyone Christ hath died for, whom sins He hath bore, that everyone of them shall live by Faith ! Yes it is a absolute guarantee that every sinner Christ died for shall live by Faith or his faith [ Hab 2:4] because it [faith] will be given them. Now the reason why this is True, that all for whom Christ died shall live by Faith, its because scripture states the Just shall live by Faith Rom 1:16-17; Gal 3:11

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Now some translations like the ESV substitute the word Just for the word Righteous :

11 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.

But thats ok because the greek word for Just is also rendered Righteous its the word dikaios:

righteous 41, just 33, right 5, meet 2

So to be Just or to be Righteous are both the same ! Now with that in mind, we will see how scripture proclaims how one is made Righteous or Just before God, Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by[dia] the obedience of one shall many be made righteous or just.

Note by the Obedience of One [Jesus Christ] many shall be made Righteous or Just ! The obedience here of this ONE is speaking of the Obedience of Christ unto Death of the Cross Phil 2:8

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

 

[brightfame52]

The Just shall live by Faith ! cont

The purpose of this is to establish from scripture that all for whom Christ died shall live by Faith, because it was by His Obedience unto death, dying for their sins, that they are made Righteous or Just Rom 5:19b, and the promise is that the Just or Righteous shall live by Faith !

The promise God's Word gives to them that are Just is this according to scripture Hab 2:4

4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

Rom 1:17

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Gal 3:11

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Heb 10:38

38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

The Promise is that the Just shall live by Faith, and how did they become Just in the First place, for it was by the obedience of Christ or His Blood, so there you have it, all for whom Christ died shall live by Faith, or shall believe in Him. Thats why Jesus stated in Jn 8:24, it meant that His Death, or His Blood never Justified them Rom 5:9, never made them Righteous Rom 5:19b, because He never died for them or for their sins, so instead of believing on Him, which would have been proof that His Death made them Righteous or Just, so that they should live by Faith, then consequently their not believing is but evidence that by His Death they have not been made Just, and their sins unpaid for and still charged against them by God's Law and Justice, so they shall die in their sins !

Believing in Christ proves that God gave Him for your sins out of His Love, for that is the True meaning of Jn 3:16, God gave His Son for those believing, which by His Death for them, they were made Just or Righteous, and as the promise goes, the Just shall live by Faith in Christ.


Thats why Paul first states what the Gospel of Christ is in Rom 1:16 and what it reveals to them believing, which produces the end result and fulfills the promise Rom 1:17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

 

[brightfame52]

Faith in Christ for Salvation is restricted to and is a Divine Summons to only those who are spiritually hungry for the bread of Life. This call to faith was even the case in the OT under the OC, for observe Isa 55:1-2

Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.

2 Wherefore do ye spend money for that which is not bread? and your labour for that which satisfieth not? hearken diligently unto me, and eat ye that[Bread] which is good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness.

Bread here is the Lord Jesus Christ and those OC Doctrines which set Him forth as the object of Faith Jn 8:56 !

In other words men do seek to come to God other than by a Election in Christ, For those who will believe and Trust in Christ, the bread from heaven Jn 6:32,33,41,50-51,58, they first need to be made to hunger for that bread or for His Righteousness as Per Matt 5:6.

The Righteousness here is Christ's Righteousness, the bread of life Jn 6:35

35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

And it is the Holy Spirit who creates this Spiritual Hunger and Thirst for Christ, the Bread of Life and His Righteousness, as we see in Jn 16:8,10,14 !

And so pay attention, for those who truly have a Spiritual Hunger for the Bread of Life, and Christ's Righteousness, its all satisfied in Christ the Bread of Life, and Christ our Righteousness, and thus the Gospel reveals to such a Righteousness of God, revealed to from to faith, thus confirming Jesus promise Matt 5:6

6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

That word filled also means satisfied or fulfill as to fulfill a desire ! Also to feed !

They shall be fed by the Gospel sent to them revealing to them the Righteousness of God, which is Christ Righteousness Imputed to them, and now this being made known to them consciously to God given Faith, and this is how Faith in Christ is accomplished in the Purpose of God for Salvation ! 2

 

[brightfame52]

Faith in Christ for Salvation cont

Many erroneous teachers teach that Salvation is offered by the Gospel to all without exception, and that many to whom it is offered, that they just do not want it and so refuse it. This however is nothing but a deception, for the Salvation call is always directed to a specific set of characters like, Whosoever will [spiritual desire], but this call does exempt those who have no will to come as here Jn 5:40

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. or whosoever is laboring and are heavy laden Matt 11:28

28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. OR

Whosoever thirst Jn 7:37

In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

Matt 5:6

Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

So for those who do not hunger and thirst, or who are not laboring and heavy laden, there is no call for them unto Faith in Christ.

To such Christ would not be precious, but unto us who believe, He is Precious 1 Pet 2:7

Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

The call to faith in Christ does not go out to any who are content and or indifferent in their sin. Do not be fooled by the deceivers; For listen, if you invite a hungry man to bread, he comes and eats, if you summon a thirsty man to drink, he thankfully comes and drinks, you summons a laboring burdened to rest and refreshment, he gladly receives it. If we recall Esau how he sold his birthright to his brother Jacob, it was while Esau was in a weary/ exhausted condition Gen 25:27-30

27 And the boys grew: and Esau was a cunning hunter, a man of the field; and Jacob was a plain man, dwelling in tents.

28 And Isaac loved Esau, because he did eat of his venison: but Rebekah loved Jacob.

29 And Jacob sod pottage: and Esau came from the field, and he was faint:

30 And Esau said to Jacob, Feed me, I pray thee, with that same red pottage; for I am faint: therefore was his name called Edom.

Notice Vs 29-30, when a person is weary, exhausted from working, his body craves or desires meat, rest and refreshment as Esau, such persons will not reject and treat with indifference that which they do desire and crave ! So it is in the Spiritual realm of things, with the Gospel feast, for it is prepared for them for whom God prepares them beforehand to receive it ! Lk 1:17

And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

 

[brightfame52]

Faith is a Gift of God's Favor to a person, in other words all for whom Christ died, even while being enemies in themselves, they had nevertheless been reconciled to God, strictly by the Death of His Son. Now to be reconciled also means to be received into God's Favor ! The word reconciled is the greek word katallassō and means:


to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value

a) to reconcile (those who are at variance)

b) return to favour with, be reconciled to one

c) to receive one into favour


Hence all those favored ones, God gives them Faith to know and understand what Christ has done for them by His blood !

Thats why Paul writes this Rom 8:32

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

That word give is the greek word charizomai which means to:

to do something pleasant or agreeable (to one), to do a favour to, gratify

a) to show one's self gracious, kind, benevolent

b) to grant forgiveness, to pardon

c) to give graciously, give freely, bestow

1) to forgive

2) graciously to restore one to another

3) to preserve for one a person in peril

And its the same word Paul uses here Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Its a must for all whom Christ died, for them to be given Faith in behalf of Christ, for them to believe upon Him for Salvation !

 

[brightfame52]

Chosen to believe, not believe to be Chosen !

Isa 43:10

Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Remember Jesus said Jn 17:3

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

And John also wrote 1 Jn 5:20

20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Every True Believer is one of God's Elect, and Faith or Believing is what they were Chosen unto, and not because of !

Lets look at 1 Pet 1:2

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Notice unto obedience, not because of obedience ! Now this obedience is Faith, meaning the obedience of Faith Rom 16:26

26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Also 2 Thess 2:13 is to the same purport 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

 

[brightfame52]

Chosen to believe, not believe to be Chosen cont

All them of God's Elect shall obtain like precious Faith 2 Pet 1:1

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

This verse lets us know unquestionably that Faith is a Salvation Blessing and not something man has by nature !

And it is also termed the Faith of God's Elect, for its from God's Elect [Christ Isa 42:1] to God's Elect His Body [ Those given to Him or Chosen in Him Eph 1:4]

It is peculiar only to them, so the Elect only obtain this precious faith, and the rest of mankind is blinded Rom 11:7

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

The Election obtained it by Faith that was given ! Paul said the blinded ones sought it not by Faith Rom 9:31-32

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

They were the Election !

The rest Paul writes were blinded Rom 11:7; And this being blinded prevents one from believing the Gospel of Christ 2 Cor 4:3-4

But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

So it is upon the evidence of one believing that Paul could reasonably conclude that the Thessalonians were of the Election of Grace 1 Thess 1:4-6

4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost.

Yes, their receiving or believing the Gospel in much affliction convinced Paul of their Election of God !

 

[brightfame52]

Something to know !

Something to know ! It is impossible for any sinner that Christ died for, to live and die an unbeliever. For such case would overthrow the purpose of God giving His Son Jn 3:16, and would have defeated the Purpose of His Saving Death. One scripture that confirms this Truth is the latter part of Rom 1:17

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

The Just SHALL live by Faith !

The whole Truth of this stated assertion, hinges upon the word SHALL, a Promise of God's Word depending upon His Ability to perform it. Just like this statement Rom 4:20-21

20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

The promise being Gen 18:10-14

10 And he said, I will certainly return unto thee according to the time of life; and, lo, Sarah thy wife shall have a son. And Sarah heard it in the tent door, which was behind him.

11 Now Abraham and Sarah were old and well stricken in age; and it ceased to be with Sarah after the manner of women.

12 Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?

13 And the Lord said unto Abraham, Wherefore did Sarah laugh, saying, Shall I of a surety bear a child, which am old?

14 Is any thing too hard for the Lord? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son.

This is to Illustrate that God's Shall's are contingent upon His Ability to perform it.

So, that the Just shall live by Faith is of that same quality of promise !

Now who are the Just ? Its all whom Christ, by His Obedience made Righteous Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

The word Righteous here is the same word Just in Rom 1:17b the greek word dikaios.

So the conclusion is That all for whom Christ died [His Obedience] shall be made to live by Faith ! This is brought about by God's Ability ! 2

 

[Albion]

Something to know !

Something to know ! It is impossible for any sinner that Christ died for, to live and die an unbeliever. For such case would overthrow the purpose of God giving His Son Jn 3:16, and would have defeated the Purpose of His Saving Death. One scripture that confirms this Truth is the latter part of Rom 1:17

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

The Just SHALL live by Faith !

Yes. But you have assumed something that is not part of that revelation. You assume that there are some people who were chosen for salvation from before their births, who are the only ones Christ died for, and who cannot fail to be saved, no matter what.

None of that is to be found in the verses you cited.

You simply added something that you think is implied, even though it is not.

 

[brightfame52]

Yes. But you have assumed something that is not part of that revelation. You assume that there are some people who were chosen for salvation from before their births, who are the only ones Christ died for, and who cannot fail to be saved, no matter what.

None of that is to be found in the verses you cited.

You simply added something that you think is implied, even though it is not.

Stick with the subject, the Just shall live by Faith. Who are the Just ? How were they made Just, what is the promise to the Just ?

 

[Albion]

Stick with the subject, the Just shall live by Faith.

Yes, that is the subject (the Just shall live by Faith).

Many people have come to faith over the years through hearing the Gospel preached, but folks who want to believe in predestination and limited atonement choose to add that faith was just assigned to them while other people who heard and believed had already been excluded.

Worse, predestinarians cite Bible passages such as the ones you used as proof of the "elect" even though those verses do not in any way support that doctrine.