Who is "him that justifieth the ungodly"?

[brightfame52]

...and that's probably not terribly unexpected. However, what either of us thinks about that doesn't matter as much as knowing who actually has received the Bible's message correctly.

That's why I offered you the words of Holy Scripture that you seemed to have ignored but which teach that being justified by Christ's sacrifice does NOT mean that anybody has, for that reason alone, a free pass to heaven. If it DID mean that, we would not also be instructed to keep from letting sin reign in our lives or to keep from offering any part of ourselves to sin, etc. once we've been made alive in Christ!

I can see you dont have a clue on what I posted. Its all good !

 

[Albion]

I can see you dont have a clue on what I posted. Its all good !

If only you could explain to everyone here what it is that you don't get. (sigh)

I just gave you point-blank evidence of the correct meaning of the matter, straight from Scripture, and all you can offer as a reply is to say that you're not being understood.

Why not give your own interpretation of the meaning of the verses I gave you and explain why you don't agree that they mean what they seem to mean--that justification isn't a guarantee of salvation?

 

[brightfame52]

If only you could explain to everyone here what it is that you don't get. (sigh)

I just gave you point-blank evidence of the correct meaning of the matter, straight from Scripture, and all you can offer as a reply is to say that you're not being understood.

Why not give your own interpretation of the meaning of the verses I gave you and explain why you don't agree that they mean what they seem to mean--that justification isn't a guarantee of salvation?

Me explaining isnt going to help, thats what I have been doing on this thread for weeks and weeks now. No you just dont get it.

 

[Albion]

Me explaining isnt going to help, thats what I have been doing on this thread for weeks and weeks now. No you just dont get it.

Or...it could be that you haven't been very effective at explaining. Simply filling up a page with text--or posting a one-line "you don't get it" sign-off after you've been asked for a clarification or for a response to some evidence--doesn't actually amount to "explaining."

 

[brightfame52]

Or...it could be that you haven't been very effective at explaining. Simply filling up a page with text--or posting a one-line "you don't get it" sign-off after you've been asked for a clarification or for a response to some evidence--doesn't actually amount to "explaining."

What do you mean effective ? I have no control over the outcome of explaining my point, no Gospel Preacher does. Its Gods prerogative to cause people to be persuaded of the Truth. My Job by His Grace is to testify to the Grace of God, and contend for it.

 

[Albion]

What do you mean effective ? I have no control over the outcome of explaining my point, no Gospel Preacher does.

If the preacher does a poor job of explaining God's word, then it's the fault of the audience, eh? That's an interesting theory, to say the least.

Its Gods prerogative to cause people to be persuaded of the Truth. My Job by His Grace is to testify to the Grace of God, and contend for it.

Okay, your intentions were good. That wasn't the reason I urged you to present your points more clearly and effectively.

Anyway, if you've hit some sort of wall with this matter, I'm sure there are other "testifiers" who are able to make the case for your particular POV concerning justification and faith.

 

[brightfame52]

If the preacher does a poor job of explaining God's word, then it's the fault of the audience, eh? That's an interesting theory, to say the least.



Okay, your intentions were good. That wasn't the reason I urged you to present your points more clearly and effectively.

Anyway, if you've hit some sort of wall with this matter, I'm sure there are other "testifiers" who are able to make the case for your particular POV concerning justification and faith.

Oh no, the preacher can explain until he blue in the face, only God can give understanding. You way off. Paul was a faithful teacher, but still God had to open up the heart of lydia to understand the things of God Acts 16:14

14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.

 

[Albion]

That's ridiculous as an excuse. Had the issue been something deeply mystical, there might be a point to be made, but our very routine discussion dealing with a basic and well-known Christian doctrine is not all that elusive. All of us know the usual interpretations, so the "problem" here lies entirely with the member who's been attempting to make a case for his own theory about the matter.

 

[brightfame52]

Remission of sins is Justification !

Remission of sins is an aspect of Justification, and can even be called Justification, as it pertains to being justified from all the legal consequences of our sins, for this is what Paul means by it here Acts 13:39

And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Some Translations have the right Ideal here:

39 And that through Him everyone who believes [who acknowledges Jesus as his Savior and devotes himself to Him] is absolved (cleared and freed) from every charge from which he could not be justified and freed by the Law of Moses and given right standing with God.AMP

and in Him every believer is absolved from all offences, from which you could not be absolved under the Law of Moses.WNT

To absolve means:

to free from guilt or blame or their consequences: The court absolved her of guilt in his death.
2.
to set free or release, as from some duty, obligation, or responsibility (usually followed by from ): to be absolved from one's oath.
3.
to grant pardon for.
4.
Ecclesiastical .
a.
to grant or pronounce remission of sins to.
b.
to remit (a sin) by absolution.
c.
to declare (censure, as excommunication) removed.

Being Justified from all things as Per Acts 13:39 means being Justified from all the consequences of ones sins, and it means things the law of Moses in it's Leviticus priesthood with its animal sacrifices could not do ! See Heb Chp 7-10 ; And this Justification of remission of sins is solely accomplished on the death/ blood of Christ Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Heb 9:22

22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Eph 1:7

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Now that Justification here in Acts 13:39 pertains to the forgiveness of sins is seen from what is said in Vs 38

38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

Forgiveness of sins is the negative side of Justification, but does have a positive effect, it gives the forgiven reconciliation to God even while they are enemies Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Reconciliation is because of forgiveness, which is Justification ! This Truth also confirms Justification before Faith !

 

[brightfame52]

Justified before Faith and why ! 2

All for whom Christ died are Justified before Faith because they have been perfected forever before Faith ! Even though work mongers and those who reject Salvation by Grace through Faith alone, or Justification by Grace alone apart from believing Faith. Its True nevertheless because all for whom Christ died, or by His Offering alone, have been made perfect before God, and so perfectly Righteous. Heb 10:14

14 For by one offering[His Death] he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Which is all whom He died for Heb 10:10

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering[Death] of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Heb 10:14

14 For by a single offering He has forever completely cleansed and perfected those who are consecrated and made holy. AMP

14 By his one sacrifice he has forever set free from sin Justified from the people he brings to God.
CEV


Hebrews 10:14 (NLV) | In Context | Whole Chapter
14 And by one gift He has made perfect forever all those who are being set apart for God-like living.

Now, this Perfection of Righteousness, Justification is something that naturally those Christ died for cannot see [it's invisible], nor feel, nor logically reason, its not known nor understood to any of the natural faculties or senses; The Knowledge of it comes by Faith and the Power of God.

Now it does not matter how many scriptures one can round up against this Truth, the Fact still remains, those that Christ hath died for, by that Death / Offering, hath been perfected forever! And this while they are yet sinners and ungodly in themselves by nature. 8

 

[Albion]

Now it does not matter how many scriptures one can round up against this Truth, the Fact still remains, those that Christ hath died for, by that Death / Offering, hath been perfected forever! And this while they are yet sinners and ungodly in themselves by nature. 8

Now, there's an argument that's seldom used on a Christian discussion board, can't we all agree?

 

[brightfame52]

Now, there's an argument that's seldom used on a Christian discussion board, can't we all agree?

Do you believe the statement ?

 

[brightfame52]

Justification before God is strictly by His Blood.

Justification before God is strictly by the Blood of Christ ! Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

This scripture is crystal clear on Justification by the Blood of Christ, and yes this is before the Justified ones believe on Christ.

This Justification by blood is based solely on the redemption that is in His Blood Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

24 [All] are justified and made upright and in right standing with God, freely and gratuitously by His grace (His unmerited favor and mercy), through the redemption which is [provided] in Christ Jesus,

The word freely in Rom 3:24 is the greek word dōrean and means:

I.freely, undeservedly

It also is translated and means:

for nought, without a cause.

So the Justification before God secured and applied to their accounts, is not based upon anything they did. If we make Faith/Believing a condition for it, we deny the Truth, as simple as that.

Its by the Redemption that is in His Blood, because attached with it is Forgiveness of sins Eph 1:7

7 In whom[By His Death] we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

This is all according to God's Grace. Justification is the result of the forgiveness of sins too, which is the result of the redemptive blood payment [ransom] to the Law and Justice of God, for all whom He died.

Redemption therefore is Justification through the Blood of Christ. Redemption is what Christ accomplished for the offences of those He died, and Forgiveness, Justification have been applied to their account. Now it has not yet been applied sensibly to them until they receive the notion of it by God given Faith, but before Faith the factuality of it has been applied in the courtroom of Heaven !

 

[brightfame52]

The justifier of him which believeth in Jesus

Rom 3:26

To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Those would be His People whom He came to save as Per Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Jesus and His People are the same here in Matt 1:21 and those in Rom 3:26

The Lord Jesus Christ has paid the whole of the sin debt, both in righteous living, and the sin penalty for the broken law, for all whom He died, and in this He has fulfilled for them all of God's Righteous requirements due to God from man !

And this done, Christ's Faithfulness to God's Law on their behalf, God is Just [Having all His Justice satisfied for them] in Justifying those believing.

That is, their believing is evidence, that God hath concluded them without Fault before His Perfect Law and Justice based on Christ's Faithfulness or Obedience. Rom 5:19

19 For just as by one man’s disobedience (failing to hear, heedlessness, and carelessness) the many were constituted sinners, so by one Man’s obedience the many will be constituted righteous (made acceptable to God, brought into right standing with Him).

 

[Albion]

Nothing in any of those verses supports the idea of Christ's sacrifice having been effective for only some predetermined "elect." More than that, it does support the idea that those who have Faith will be saved...by Faith.

 

[brightfame52]

Remission of sins is Justification ! 2

Remission of sins or forgiveness of sins = Justification before God because , Christ's Blood does such a thorough job of cleansing us [Those He died for] from all sin, once and for all, that God absolves them of all sin and guilt that to Him, it is as they have never sinned, so God declares them Righteous.

Now this occurred in the Court of Heaven and had nothing to do with anything the Justified ones did, or will do, it had only to do with what Christ did for them and in their behalf, while they know nothing of it.

So all men Christ died for are Justified before God from all sin while they are unbelievers. Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 8

 

[Albion]

Remission of sins is Justification ! 2

Remission of sins or forgiveness of sins = Justification before God because , Christ's Blood does such a thorough job of cleansing us [Those He died for] from all sin, once and for all, that God absolves them of all sin and guilt that to Him, it is as they have never sinned, so God declares them Righteous.

Fine, but you approach this matter as though it is timeless. That's the mistake. Jesus' sacrifice paid the price for the sinful condition of mankind as it was thanks to man's inability to keep the Law perfectly. BUT, once justified, the people have their lifetimes to live out.

Do they get a free pass to salvation because they were given a new start decades earlier? Is it unimportant whether they ever come to Faith? Well, no, we cannot say that.

And do certain select people get to sin to their heart's content while they live out their lives...just because mankind was, by the Cross, made eligible for eternal life? Certainly not, and the Bible is definite about that and speaks to the matter at length.

 

[brightfame52]

Fine, but you approach this matter as though it is timeless. That's the mistake. Jesus' sacrifice paid the price for the sinful condition of mankind as it was thanks to man's inability to keep the Law perfectly. BUT, once justified, the people have their lifetimes to live out.

Do they get a free pass to salvation because they were given a new start decades earlier? Is it unimportant whether they ever come to Faith? Well, no, we cannot say that.

And do certain select people get to sin to their heart's content while they live out their lives...just because mankind was, by the Cross, made eligible for eternal life? Certainly not, and the Bible is definite about that and speaks to the matter at length.

Christ death paid for the sins of all who are Justified, forgiven.

 

[Albion]

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 8

So,.,.,no special "elect" group after all.

 

[brightfame52]

So,.,.,no special "elect" group after all.

Thats who the elect are, the Justified Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.