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prism

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Anyway, you’re off topic. My OP has been asked and answered.
I C, weren’t you the one who asked the question, “What is justification?”?
 
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SetFree

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Who cares what men's organizations say, what does God's Word as written say?

In Romans 8 and Jeremiah 4, an ancient earth is pointed to, and a previous world destruction prior to the time of Adam and Eve.

What is truly funny too, is the phrase "without form, and void" in Genesis 1:2 tradition treats that phrase like the earth at that point did not exist yet, that instead things were in a vacuum state of nothingness. That idea of nothingness, when that verse is pointing directly to an existing earth, with FLOOD WATERS upon it, shows how men's traditions that rely on man's science have simply duped many brethren.

The "without form, and void" phrase is Hebrew tohu va bohu, and means 'a waste and an undistinguishable ruin'.

Genesis 1:1 is when God's original 'perfect' creation was.

Some time between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 Satan rebelled against God in coveting God's Throne. And God ended that old world, of which many of the ancient artifacts found on earth today are from that ancient destruction. From Genesis 1:3 forward is actually this present world create which God placed in 'bondage to corruption' (YEAH! Apostle Paul covered this point in Romans 8!).

Anyone thinking the above is about 'any' concept of evolution simply show their Biblical ignorance.
 

Albion

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Anyone thinking the above is about 'any' concept of evolution simply show their Biblical ignorance.
What about those who don't know what "evolution" means, theistic or otherwise??
 

SetFree

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What about those who don't know what "evolution" means, theistic or otherwise??
Pop terminology is man's thing, not God's. Many debates are created and started by the children of darkness just in order to create opportunity to confuse the weak-minded, and especially the Biblically illiterate.

An example: some brethren in confusion about the word 'evolution' will try and assign it to the idea I was pointing to in God's Word, that of Satan's original rebellion between the time of Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2, with past that in Genesis 1:2 forward being re-establishing of God's original creation of Gen.1:1, except... in a state of bondage (like Paul taught in Romans 8). None of that is difficult to understand directly from God's written Word, if... one is listening in HIS Word, and not man's word.

I even shake my head at times with those who misinterpret what Apostle Paul said about "celestial bodies" being about the Heavenly dimension of Spirit when the word 'celestial' means objects in today's sky and universe, like the stars, moon, planets, etc., which is part of our earthly dimension (see 1 Corinthians 15).
 

Albion

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Pop terminology is man's thing, not God's.
Well, "evolution" is a word that has a definition.

I was struck by the fact that your post didn't show any understanding of that meaning, which in turn defeated whatever message you thought you were delivering.
 

SetFree

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Well, "evolution" is a word that has a definition.

I was struck by the fact that your post didn't show any understanding of that meaning, which in turn defeated whatever message you thought you were delivering.
I didn't know my Bible understanding required... me to define men's theory of evolution. So why are you TRYING to make that a requirement, especially when you have NO authority to require it?

You appear like a blind Pharisee following me around to see if you can 'trap' me with some vanity. May God rebuke you.
 

SetFree

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Well, "evolution" is a word that has a definition.

I was struck by the fact that your post didn't show any understanding of that meaning, which in turn defeated whatever message you thought you were delivering.
So o great one, explain what Apostle Paul was talking about in the Romans 8:18-25 Scripture, instead wanting to dwell on men's false theory of evolution.
 

Albion

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I didn't know my Bible understanding required... me to define men's theory of evolution.

Well, duh, if you are going to use the word yourself and also attempt to explain it--which is what your post did--you need to know what it means.

In your post you described what you consider to be a process of evolution when you pointed to several different periods in past history, BUT THAT IS NOT EVOLUTION. And, worse of course, evolution is one of the "hot button" areas of dispute when it comes to how Christians interpret what they read in Genesis.
 

SetFree

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Well, duh, if you are going to use the word yourself and also attempt to explain it--which is what your post did--you need to know what it means.
No, the message I was covering from God's Word is how it reveals the existence of a previous world earth age which God ended. That didn't involve men's theories of evolution, which was my point, and I dare say just about everyone that believes in God's Word knows that men's theory of evolution is a theory from men, and NOT God. So give unto God what is His, and to men's doctrines what is theirs.

Therefore, your continually stressing ideas about evolution reveals what about yourself? It kind of reveals your infatuation with the idea. Scrap it, it's a worthless notion.
 

Albion

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Therefore, your continually stressing ideas about evolution reveals what about yourself? It kind of reveals your infatuation with the idea. Scrap it, it's a worthless notion.
LOL. I made one response to your awkward attempt to explain something about evolution. And that was meant as a 'word to the wise;' it wasn't a careful presentation on my part of any theory of evolution, pro or con, one way or another.

Otherwise, I can't remember when I might have ever gotten involved in any discussions on that topic.
 

Messy

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Who cares what men's organizations say, what does God's Word as written say?

In Romans 8 and Jeremiah 4, an ancient earth is pointed to, and a previous world destruction prior to the time of Adam and Eve.

What is truly funny too, is the phrase "without form, and void" in Genesis 1:2 tradition treats that phrase like the earth at that point did not exist yet, that instead things were in a vacuum state of nothingness. That idea of nothingness, when that verse is pointing directly to an existing earth, with FLOOD WATERS upon it, shows how men's traditions that rely on man's science have simply duped many brethren.

The "without form, and void" phrase is Hebrew tohu va bohu, and means 'a waste and an undistinguishable ruin'.

Genesis 1:1 is when God's original 'perfect' creation was.

Some time between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 Satan rebelled against God in coveting God's Throne. And God ended that old world, of which many of the ancient artifacts found on earth today are from that ancient destruction. From Genesis 1:3 forward is actually this present world create which God placed in 'bondage to corruption' (YEAH! Apostle Paul covered this point in Romans 8!).

Anyone thinking the above is about 'any' concept of evolution simply show their Biblical ignorance.
That's GAP theory. I don't believe that anymore, because

Exodus 20:11 NKJV​

For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day.
 

Messy

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So o great one, explain what Apostle Paul was talking about in the Romans 8:18-25 Scripture, instead wanting to dwell on men's false theory of evolution.
That's just about the fall of Adam and Eve. Death and sickness came since they sinned and earthquakes etc with the flood. It looks old, but in no time the sediment was formed and what convinced me most that GAP theory is not true was that they found soft tissue in a dinosaur. It's just a few thousand years old.
 

SetFree

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That's GAP theory. I don't believe that anymore, because

Exodus 20:11 NKJV​

For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day.
The Lord GOD did... make this 'present' world... in six days like that says.

But His making the creation of this present world after the destruction at Genesis 1:2 does not disprove the existence of the old first world earth age before Satan rebelled.

By the time of Adam and Eve in God's Garden, Satan is shown already having rebelled and working against God. Think.
 

SetFree

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That's just about the fall of Adam and Eve. Death and sickness came since they sinned and earthquakes etc with the flood. It looks old, but in no time the sediment was formed and what convinced me most that GAP theory is not true was that they found soft tissue in a dinosaur. It's just a few thousand years old.
NO, Romans 8:18-25 is not... about Adam and Eve's fall.

It is about God having placed His 'creation' (Greek ktisis) in 'vanity', in bondage to corruption. Paul says the CREATION there, NOT Adam and Eve, so I don't know why you would tell a BLATANT LIE against the Roman 8 Scripture there.

Rom 8:20-22
20 For the
creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

21 Because the
creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

22 For we know that the whole
creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
KJV


Where is Adam and Eve mentioned in any of that above? No, Paul is talking about the CREATION with Greek ktisis.

That Scripture is linked with what God said in Jeremiah 4:27-28 about His not making a full end of the first world earth age He destroyed, but that this 2nd world earth age the earth would 'mourn', and the heavens above would be black (representing the storm weather of today's 2nd world earth age).

The Jeremiah 4:23-26 Scripture is pointing back to the destruction that God caused back at Genesis 1:2. That is when He began placing this 6-day creation of today in bondage to corruption like Apostle Paul showed.
 

Albion

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It's interesting how strict literalists count days in a certain way, regardless of how the ancient Hebrews counted them or what they meant by the term, but these are the same literalists who insist that all sorts of more important Biblical matters be understood poetically or figuratively, rather than take THAT language literally.

Examples include 1) the institution of the Lord's Supper in which Jesus says it IS his body and blood, not a symbol of the same, and 2) Christ's directive to his Apostles to go into the world and make new believers, "baptizing them" in the name of the triune God...NOT, in other words, letting converts claim that they had had a spiritual experience of the Holy Spirit coming upon them invisibly and privately, so that the sacrament instituted by Jesus wasn't needed in their case!
 
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Messy

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It's interesting how strict literalists count days in a certain way, regardless of how the ancient Hebrews counted them or what they meant by the term, but these are the same literalists who insist that all sorts of more important Biblical matters be understood poetically or figuratively, rather than take THAT language literally.

Examples include 1) the institution of the Lord's Supper in which Jesus says it IS his body and blood, not a symbol of the same, and 2) Christ's directive to his Apostles to go into the world, make new believers, (and then) "baptizing them" in the name of the triune God...NOT, in other words, letting converts claim that they had had a spiritual experience of the Holy Spirit coming upon them invisibly and privately, meaning that the sacrament instituted by Jesus wasn't needed!
I don't care either way. I used to think it was 7 times some million or billion years, but someone said plants die when they have no sun for millions of years.
 

Messy

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NO, Romans 8:18-25 is not... about Adam and Eve's fall.

It is about God having placed His 'creation' (Greek ktisis) in 'vanity', in bondage to corruption. Paul says the CREATION there, NOT Adam and Eve, so I don't know why you would tell a BLATANT LIE against the Roman 8 Scripture there.

Rom 8:20-22
20 For the
creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

21 Because the
creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

22 For we know that the whole
creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
KJV


Where is Adam and Eve mentioned in any of that above? No, Paul is talking about the CREATION with Greek ktisis.

That Scripture is linked with what God said in Jeremiah 4:27-28 about His not making a full end of the first world earth age He destroyed, but that this 2nd world earth age the earth would 'mourn', and the heavens above would be black (representing the storm weather of today's 2nd world earth age).

The Jeremiah 4:23-26 Scripture is pointing back to the destruction that God caused back at Genesis 1:2. That is when He began placing this 6-day creation of today in bondage to corruption like Apostle Paul showed.
Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’:

“Cursed is the ground for your sake;
In toil you shall eat of it
All the days of your life.
18 Both thorns and thistles it shall [f]bring forth for you,
And you shall eat the herb of the field.
19 In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread
Till you return to the ground,
For out of it you were taken;
For dust you are,
And to dust you shall return.”

But whatever, even Derek Prince believed GAP. It's not a salvation matter.

The ground was cursed because of what Adam did. Death came through one man,the first Adam.

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned


There could not have been a race of men before Adam that died in “Lucifer's flood” because 1 Corinthians 15:45 tells us that Adam was the “first” man.

Genesis 1:29-30 teaches us that the animals and man were originally created vegetarian. This is consistent with God's description of the creation as “very good.” How could a fossil record which gives evidence of disease, violence, death, and decay (fossils have been found of animals apparently fighting and certainly eating each other) be described as “very good”? Thus, the death of billions of animals (and many humans) as seen in the fossil record must have occurred after Adam's sin. The historical event of Noah's flood, recorded in Genesis, provides an explanation for the presence of huge numbers of dead animals buried in rock layers laid down by water all over the Earth.

The first world is the world before the flood of Noah. No way soft tissue can stay in a dinosaur for billions of years. I can't believe that. And dinosaurs are described in Job.
 
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Albion

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I don't care either way. I used to think it was 7 times some million or billion years, but someone said plants die when they have no sun for millions of years.

There are plants at the bottom of the ocean where the sunlight never reaches.:unsure:
 

Albion

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But they erode the bible making it untrustworthy.
Not necessarily. The people who agreed with Dave on that point consider the credibility of the Bible to be at stake, but that would be true ONLY IF the correct interpretation were denied. But the fact is that we're talking about a rather famous disagreement among Christians as to which interpretation is the correct one.

That means we cannot say for certain that the correct one has actually been denied.

No one has proven that their view of this matter is right, just as they haven't proven that the opposing view is wrong.

As a result, the observation that was made by other posters a little earlier is the truly relevant one in all of this--i. e. this isn't an essential doctrine, one way or the other.
 

SetFree

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I don't care either way. I used to think it was 7 times some million or billion years, but someone said plants die when they have no sun for millions of years.
You should care, because God put this matter in His Word for the benefit of His servants. It points back to what happened in the old world when Satan coveted His throne, and God destroyed that 1st world earth age. Apostles Peter and Paul both understood it, because this is what the 2 Peter 3 and Romans 8:18-25 Scripture is about. And God through His prophets Jeremiah, Isaiah, and Ezekiel also revealed info about it. And thus Revelation 9 thru 17 reveals Satan is going to be allowed to play Christ once again to deceive those of this world who received not the love of the Truth.
 
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