Tithing

rivulet

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I had a friend say that God does not want us to tithe, while another one said it is required.

So, I know it's unpopular to say this but... there's no New Testament command to tithe.

I was a Children's Pastor for 5 years and so I understand the necessity for SOME money in the church. However, I saw how the church told the poorest of the poor that God COMMANDED them to give 10% and then watched as pastors squandered it away. And in return for their tithe, the church was convieniently unavailable to help the congregates when needed.

I find it interesting that pastors will preach about the law being dead and how gentiles do not need to abide by the Old Testament laws... except the one about tithing.

Money is necessary to keep the lights on and pay your pastors: but to say that God commands it is simply a lie. I will give money to my church because I understand why the church needs money. And I selected a church that is open about their finances.

I don't tithe. I don't preach tithing.

**end rant**
 

psalms 91

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I do tithe as I feel that it is something we should do and that there are blessings associated with it
 

tango

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Deuteronomy 30King James Version (KJV)

30 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the Lord thy God hath driven thee,
2 And shalt return unto the Lord thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;
3 That then the Lord thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the Lord thy God hath scattered thee.
The Good Seed
4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the Lord thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:
5 And the Lord thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.
6 And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
7 And the Lord thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee.
8 And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the Lord, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day.
9 And the Lord thy God will make thee plenteous in every work of thine hand, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy land, for good: for the Lord will again rejoice over thee for good, as he rejoiced over thy fathers:
10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
16 In that I command thee this day to love the Lord thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the Lord thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.
17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;
18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.

19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

20 That thou mayest love the Lord thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the Lord sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.




John 14King James Version (KJV)

14 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Does that have anything to do with tithing?
 

pinacled

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Does that have anything to do with tithing?

If you consider
Ezekiel 45
11 The ephah and the bath shall be of one measure, that the bath may contain the tenth part of a homer, and the ephah the tenth part of a homer; the measure thereof shall be after the homer.

Are you familiar with 20 and 2

http://www.sheshbazzardaq.com/the-sower.html
 
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tango

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If you consider
Ezekiel 45
11 The ephah and the bath shall be of one measure, that the bath may contain the tenth part of a homer, and the ephah the tenth part of a homer; the measure thereof shall be after the homer.

Are you familiar with 20 and 2

http://www.sheshbazzardaq.com/the-sower.html


Are you going to actually make a point or just endlessly talk in riddles? The topic here is tithing, not whether one unit is ten times another unit. The dime is the tenth part of a dollar but that has nothing to do with tithing either. If there was no such thing as the 10c coin anyone minded to give 10% of a dollar could give two nickels, or 10 pennies, or whatever other combination worked for them.

It would be really nice to see you just come out and make your point (assuming you actually have one, which I'm starting to doubt), rather than posting apparently random Scripture.
 

pinacled

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Are you going to actually make a point or just endlessly talk in riddles? The topic here is tithing, not whether one unit is ten times another unit. The dime is the tenth part of a dollar but that has nothing to do with tithing either. If there was no such thing as the 10c coin anyone minded to give 10% of a dollar could give two nickels, or 10 pennies, or whatever other combination worked for them.

It would be really nice to see you just come out and make your point (assuming you actually have one, which I'm starting to doubt), rather than posting apparently random Scripture.

Brother you just answered the question yourself.
A deeper understanding takes work mathematics can help with acuteness.
 

tango

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Brother you just answered the question yourself.
A deeper understanding takes work mathematics can help with acuteness.

You are sounding more and more like a gnostic here. Do you have a point about tithing you'd like to make?
 

pinacled

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You are sounding more and more like a gnostic here. Do you have a point about tithing you'd like to make?
Tithe literally means tenth.
I'll ask you this. Who gives the increase in the first place?

Think about the first fruits.

Genesis 14
18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:

20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.

Genesis 28
19 And he called the name of that place Bethel: but the name of that city was called Luz at the first.

20 And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on,

21 So that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the Lord be my God:

22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.



And this is a favorite of mine.

10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the Lord of hosts.
 
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tango

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Tithe literally means tenth.
I'll ask you this. Who gives the increase in the first place?

Think about the first fruits.

What has who gives the increase got to do with tithing? Ultimately God owns everything anyway.

I know tithing means tenth. The question is whether the OT construct of giving literally 10% is still relevant today. Some say we should give 10% of our gross income, some say 10% of our net income, others say to give what we can give cheerfully.

Do you have a position on what we should give, and whether it should be based on what we believe is appropriate or a specific externally defined percentage?
 

pinacled

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What has who gives the increase got to do with tithing? Ultimately God owns everything anyway.

I know tithing means tenth. The question is whether the OT construct of giving literally 10% is still relevant today. Some say we should give 10% of our gross income, some say 10% of our net income, others say to give what we can give cheerfully.

Do you have a position on what we should give, and whether it should be based on what we believe is appropriate or a specific externally defined percentage?


Well instead of income think of a personal relationship with Christ.
As you already stated our Lord owns everything.


Investment should be in the welfare of the community in fellowship.

The Third Temple is far more important.
There are a few ways to understand this.
Spiritual, mental, and physical.
 

tango

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Well instead of income think of a personal relationship with Christ.
As you already stated our Lord owns everything.


Investment should be in the welfare of the community in fellowship.

The Third Temple is far more important.
There are a few ways to understand this.
Spiritual, mental, and physical.

Are you going to answer the question of whether we should give a literal 10% of our income?
 

pinacled

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Are you going to answer the question of whether we should give a literal 10% of our income?

Wait, are you serious?
I know you are smarter than this form of inquire.
3rd Seal?
 

visionary

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Freely received, freely given.. Lord loves a cheerful giver.
 

tango

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Wait, are you serious?
I know you are smarter than this form of inquire.
3rd Seal?

I think the 4th seal is more relevant to the topic at hand.

We could discuss why but that still has nothing to do with tithing. You could always be really reckless and, you know, answer the question.
 

MoreCoffee

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I think the 4th seal is more relevant to the topic at hand.

We could discuss why but that still has nothing to do with tithing. You could always be really reckless and, you know, answer the question.

Now you just being logical and relevant and that is not what's wanted in the current discussion :p
 

tango

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Now you just being logical and relevant and that is not what's wanted in the current discussion :p

Sorry

10 Yes, though they have hired among the nations, Now I will gather them; And they shall sorrow a little, Because of the burden of the king of princes.
11 "Because Ephraim has made many altars for sin, They have become for him altars for sinning.
12 I have written for him the great things of My law, But they were considered a strange thing.

Is that better?
 

MoreCoffee

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Sorry

10 Yes, though they have hired among the nations, Now I will gather them; And they shall sorrow a little, Because of the burden of the king of princes.
11 "Because Ephraim has made many altars for sin, They have become for him altars for sinning.
12 I have written for him the great things of My law, But they were considered a strange thing.

Is that better?

Yes, it is nicely random and completely unrelated to the thread's topic :p
 

tango

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Yes, it is nicely random and completely unrelated to the thread's topic :p

It's not random at all, it's totally related to the thread's topic. It's not my fault if you're not seeing how. Did you consider it in the context of Euclidian geometry?
 

MoreCoffee

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It's not random at all, it's totally related to the thread's topic. It's not my fault if you're not seeing how. Did you consider it in the context of Euclidian geometry?

No, only non-Euclidean geometries are true! :rotfl::rofl3:
 

pinacled

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I think the 4th seal is more relevant to the topic at hand.

We could discuss why but that still has nothing to do with tithing. You could always be really reckless and, you know, answer the question.

4th seal?
19"But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20"But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath. 21"For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.…

The Romans were like an eagle, and the ensign of their armies was an eagle. When a people, by their sin, make themselves as loathsome carcasses, nothing can be expected but that God should send enemies to destroy them. It is very applicable to the day of judgment, the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ in that day,

2Th 2:1. Let us give diligence to make our calling and election sure; then may we know that no enemy or deceiver shall ever prevail against us.


3"But when you give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4so that your giving will be in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.
 
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