Tithing

[Romanos]

I had a friend say that God does not want us to tithe, while another one said it is required.

 

[Krissy Cakes]

I believe you should to help the church and its people BUT for me I don't think you HAVE to.
I probably say that cause we are poor and don't have money to give.

 

[Brighten04]

I think we should tithe.

 

[MarkFL]

I hope you all will overlook my posting here, as I simply wanted to share a page I found regarding this subject:

Question: "What does the Bible say about Christian tithing? Should a Christian tithe?"

Answer: Many Christians struggle with the issue of tithing. In some churches giving is over-emphasized. At the same time, many Christians refuse to submit to the biblical exhortations about making offerings to the Lord. Tithing/giving is intended to be a joy and a blessing. Sadly, that is sometimes not the case in the church today.

Tithing is an Old Testament concept. The tithe was a requirement of the Law in which the Israelites were to give 10 percent of the crops they grew and the livestock they raised to the tabernacle/temple (Leviticus 27:30; Numbers 18:26; Deuteronomy 14:24; 2 Chronicles 31:5). In fact, the Old Testament Law required multiple tithes—one for the Levites, one for the use of the temple and the feasts, and one for the poor of the land—which would have pushed the total to around 23.3 percent. Some understand the Old Testament tithe as a method of taxation to provide for the needs of the priests and Levites in the sacrificial system.

The New Testament nowhere commands, or even recommends, that Christians submit to a legalistic tithe system. The New Testament nowhere designates a percentage of income a person should set aside, but only says gifts should be “in keeping with income” (1 Corinthians 16:2). Some in the Christian church have taken the 10 percent figure from the Old Testament tithe and applied it as a “recommended minimum” for Christians in their giving.

The New Testament talks about the importance and benefits of giving. We are to give as we are able. Sometimes that means giving more than 10 percent; sometimes that may mean giving less. It all depends on the ability of the Christian and the needs of the church. Every Christian should diligently pray and seek God’s wisdom in the matter of participating in tithing and/or how much to give (James 1:5). Above all, all tithes and offerings should be given with pure motives and an attitude of worship to God and service to the body of Christ. “Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver” (2 Corinthians 9:7).

 

[Lamb]

^^^ what Mark posted!! That is what I believe.

 

[psalms 91]

I follow the 10 per cent and believe that the blessings that go with tithing are very real

 

[tango]

I had a friend say that God does not want us to tithe, while another one said it is required.

I must admit if a pastor ever tells me how much he "expects" me to give, my giving will change to a nice round number. Specifically a bit fat zero.

The way I see it tithing is an OT construct, where people were expected to give 10% of their produce. And when the Levites were not allowed to work, it's clear that they still had to eat. So if 11 tribes give 10% of what they raise/grow/harvest then 11 tribes get 90% and 1 tribe gets 110%. Since 90% is enough for the tribe to feed itself the priests get enough for themselves plus enough left over to distribute among the needy.

Roll forward to this day and age and there's no law that says the priests of today can't also work a secular job (as many do), so the tithe isn't necessary. Since most people work for someone else they aren't in a position to give 10% of what they produce, so expecting 10% of someone's salary is little more than abstraction of an OT principle.

Expecting a tithe also shifts the burden of supporting a ministry to those least able to support it. The person trying to get by on an annual income of $20k will struggle to cope with giving $2k in a way that a person making $500k won't if they give $50k. So the tithe lets the wealthy off the hook, crushes the poor, and can create a sense of entitlement among pastors in wealthy areas.

For good measure Paul wrote about giving, albeit briefly:

2Co 9:6-7 KJV But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. (7) Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.


Taking a practical view I think Paul is right, I'd rather see someone giving $5 cheerfully than $500 under duress, although if someone is in a place where they could easily afford to give $500 it would be nice to see a change of heart such that they did give it willingly and cheerfully. At the same time I think if a church wants activities to continue then collectively the church needs to provide the funds - it's easy for a church to vote to start some program or other and expect the money to appear as if by magic. If the church expects the minister to consider his pastoral role to be a full time job then they also need to pay him a salary that allows him to live - it doesn't work to expect the minister to work full time at the church and then assume he's just going to live on vague promises to support him.

 

[Hammster]

I follow the 10 per cent and believe that the blessings that go with tithing are very real

The tithe is more than ten percent. So you might want to check that.

 

[Hammster]

We give cheerfully. And not all of it in weekly offerings. We do help with supplies for outreaches that we do. And we've given to those in need, both in our church and without. I have no idea what the percentage is. But I'm also sure that God isn't keeping score.

 

[Krissy Cakes]

Glad hes not keeping sore cause we'd be in trouble.

 

[psalms 91]

The tithe is more than ten percent. So you might want to check that.

I could be wrong but the tithe as in Malachi is 10 per cent, then you get into free will offerings, alms, and so on. You are correct that it does not stop at the ten per cent

 

[tango]

We give cheerfully. And not all of it in weekly offerings. We do help with supplies for outreaches that we do. And we've given to those in need, both in our church and without. I have no idea what the percentage is. But I'm also sure that God isn't keeping score.

I usually give to specific projects. My income is lumpy so there's no point any church leader expecting me to give the same amount every week. Sometimes I go several weeks without giving a bean. Other times I support a specific project fairly generously. Sometimes I give time or expertise rather than hard cash. At my last church I looked after most of their technical requirements and although in theory I had an agreement with them as to what my hourly rate would be in practice I very seldom actually issued an invoice.

 

[TurtleHare]

The tithe is not required but God loves a cheerful giver. The reason to give isn't to benefit God but other people.

 

[tango]

The tithe is not required but God loves a cheerful giver. The reason to give isn't to benefit God but other people.

I think giving is also to benefit us. Giving helps us focus on requirements over and above my own concerns about food, mortgage, bills etc and recognising that the needs of others can sometimes be placed ahead of my wants and sometimes maybe even my needs. Perhaps I'll go without beer this week so another family can eat. Maybe I'll go without food one day so someone else can eat. If it shifts the focus away from us and onto others that's not necessarily a bad thing.

God doesn't need us to give, if God spoke the universe into being it's not like it's beyond him to say "let there be $100 in the wallet of the person who desperately needs it".

 

[TurtleHare]

I can go with that in a way but let's not make this "me" giving. Know what I mean?

 

[tango]

I can go with that in a way but let's not make this "me" giving. Know what I mean?

Not sure. If you're saying it's not about "hey everyone, look at how much I'm giving" then I agree entirely. If I give a family some food they don't need to know whether the impact on me is that I'm going to be hungry for a few days, that I'll eat turkey instead of beef, or I'll drink vintage Moet rather than vintage Dom Perignon. If I can do it such that they don't even know it was me who gave them the food that's better still.

 

[tango]

I can go with that in a way but let's not make this "me" giving. Know what I mean?

Not sure. If you're saying it's not about "hey everyone, look at how much I'm giving" then I agree entirely. If I give a family some food they don't need to know whether the impact on me is that I'm going to be hungry for a few days, that I'll eat turkey instead of beef, or I'll drink vintage Moet rather than vintage Dom Perignon. If I can do it such that they don't even know it was me who gave them the food that's better still.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I had a friend say that God does not want us to tithe, while another one said it is required.

In the old covenant God commanded that the non-priestly tribes tithe for the upkeep of the temple and the supply of food, clothing, and other things for the priestly people and the tribe of Levi. Thus giving 1/10th of one's increase was the norm for the 11 other tribes (12 really since Joseph was split into two tribes, Manessah and Ephraim) and a tenth from 12 tribes would cover the expected "increase" that Levi would need for living as well as leaving money for the temple and its running costs. But under the new covenant there is no Levite tribe and Christian giving is intended to cover the costs of maintaining the people who dedicate their lives to the work of preaching and evangelising as well as to help the poor among us. Christian giving is never defined as a tithe under the new covenant, the few times it is mentioned it is described as gifts and offerings and is usually tied to immediate needs for the poor and the preaching work. So there appear to be no set amount that Christians are commanded to give and there also appears to be no compulsion to give. Those who are poor among us need not give if they cannot afford it - and if they are poor they almost certainly cannot afford to give - and those who have much are free to give much or little as their conscience and the Spirit of God leads but they ought always to be filled with compassionate love for the brethren and for the poor because these things are commanded by the Lord.

 

[pinacled]

I see the Spiritual first. Then approach all relationships with people as a congregation. Each person may have different needs. Widows, Orphans.
One body many members.

Leviticus 27:30 - And all the tithe of the land, [whether] of the seed of the land, [or] of the fruit of the tree, [is] the LORD'S: [it is] holy unto the LORD.
Anyone remember how many manner of fruit their are?


This may help with the Parable of the Sower.
Matthew 13King James Version (KJV)

13 The same day went Jesus out of the house, and sat by the sea side.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]And great multitudes were gathered together unto him, so that he went into a ship, and sat; and the whole multitude stood on the shore.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And he spake many things unto them in parables,saying,
Behold, a sower went forth to sow;
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
[SUP]
}9 [/SUP]Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

[SUP]}10 [/SUP]And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?[SUP]

11 [/SUP]He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

[SUP]12 [/SUP]For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?

[SUP]28 [/SUP]He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?

[SUP]29 [/SUP]But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.



Notice first Yeshua says who hath ears let him hear.
This is a reference to a Mantle that is given.
Not all the parables end with, who hath ears let him hear.

 

[pinacled]

Deuteronomy 30King James Version (KJV)

30 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the Lord thy God hath driven thee,
2 And shalt return unto the Lord thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;
3 That then the Lord thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the Lord thy God hath scattered thee.
The Good Seed
4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the Lord thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:
5 And the Lord thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.
6 And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
7 And the Lord thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee.
8 And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the Lord, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day.
9 And the Lord thy God will make thee plenteous in every work of thine hand, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy land, for good: for the Lord will again rejoice over thee for good, as he rejoiced over thy fathers:
10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
16 In that I command thee this day to love the Lord thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the Lord thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.
17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;
18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.

19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

20 That thou mayest love the Lord thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the Lord sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.




John 14King James Version (KJV)

14 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.