Jesus died for the sins of the world

[prism]

Just a question…If Jesus died for all the sins of the whole world, why doesn’t that include the sin of unbelief?

 

[Josiah]

Just a question…If Jesus died for all the sins of the whole world, why doesn’t that include the sin of unbelief?

It does. And the way that forgiveness is apprehended is by faith.

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[Albion]

Just a question…If Jesus died for all the sins of the whole world, why doesn’t that include the sin of unbelief?

It does.

But there you are talking not only about a sin but about the absence of saving Faith as well.

 

[prism]

It does. And the way that forgiveness is apprehended is by faith.

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Then why aren't all saved, since their unbelief (lack of faith) is forgiven?

 

[prism]

It does.

But there you are talking not only about a sin but about the absence of saving Faith as well.

The absence of 'saving faith' is the sin that damns. Since some people perish, that sin wasn't dealt with for some in the atonement. The reason some are saved indicates a specific people (the elect) had all their sins forgiven on account of Calvary.

 

[Josiah]

Then why aren't all saved, since their unbelief (lack of faith) is forgiven?

The way forgiveness is received is by faith. When faith is there, the previous unbelief is forgiven.

Watch this:

Since some people perish, that sin wasn't dealt with for some in the atonement.

No, it means that they do not have faith. The Bible states that the death of Jesus is the random for all... but the way that is applied to the individual is by faith.

Ultimately, Calvinists admit that the Cross ALONE - while providing forgiveness and salvation - does not save apart from faith. It's not the Cross ALONE but the Cross plus faith. Watch the video above.


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[Albion]

The absence of 'saving faith' is the sin that damns.

No, it's the absence of faith.

Since some people perish, that sin wasn't dealt with for some in the atonement. The reason some are saved indicates a specific people (the elect) had all their sins forgiven on account of Calvary.

Or...it indicates that whoever is saved had their sins forgiven on account of Calvary.

See how easy it is for some people to get those concepts wrong?

 

[prism]

No, it's the absence of faith.

The faith that saves is called saving faith. (Faith in the person and work of Christ Jesus.

Or...it indicates that whoever is saved had their sins forgiven on account of Calvary.

'all' their sins?

See how easy it is for some people to get those concepts wrong?

...not yet.

 

[prism]

No, it means that they do not have faith. The Bible states that the death of Jesus is the random for all... but the way that is applied to the individual is by faith.

That sounds like an invitation to an altar call. "Simply believe in Jesus and you are saved".

Ultimately, Calvinists admit that the Cross ALONE - while providing forgiveness and salvation - does not save apart from faith. It's not the Cross ALONE but the Cross plus faith. Watch the video above.

Actually it's the work of the Trinity that saves...nothing more nothing less.

 

[Albion]

The faith that saves is called saving faith. (Faith in the person and work of Christ Jesus.

It was your focus on sin rather than faith that I was referring to. Compare your statement with mine in that post.

'all' their sins?

Of course.

 

[prism]

Of course.

We said the same thing except you left out the phrase 'all their sins', so I reincluded it.

It was your focus on sin rather than faith that I was referring to. Compare your statement with mine in that post.

I had said "The absence of 'saving faith' is the sin that damns." focuses on the lack of faith, not sin.

 

[Josiah]

That sounds like an invitation to an altar call. "Simply believe in Jesus and you are saved".

Nope. The Cross AND faith are both essential, and both are 100% the work and gift of God. The Cross is universal, faith is not.

Actually it's the work of the Trinity that saves...nothing more nothing less.

Amen!



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[Albion]

We said the same thing except you left out the phrase 'all their sins', so I reincluded it.

Apparently, I'm going to have to explain this more slowly.

You wrote--

The absence of 'saving faith' is the sin that damns.

and I corrected that statement to "No, it's the absence of faith."

So what's the difference between the two? It's just this...

The absence of Faith is, in itself, what would deny someone salvation, NOT the commission of a sin. Not even what you identified as the sin of unbelief.

In other words, it's not because of the sin (of unbelief) but of the lack of saving Faith.

We all sin, even after coming to Christ! And all of them are subject to being forgiven by God, but that applies only to those people who have Faith in the saving work of Christ (who told his followers not to worry about their salvation so long as they do trust in Him).

 

[prism]

Nope. The Cross AND faith are both essential, and both are 100% the work and gift of God.

So God works faith into certain individuals, otherwise all would be saved?

 

[prism]

In other words, it's not because of the sin (of unbelief) but of the lack of saving Faith.

Is not the lack of faith (which saves) a sin that condemns?

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[Albion]

Is not the lack of faith (which saves) a sin that condemns?

I think you could get two different answers about that, but it still avoids the issue I was trying to get through to you. It's not that the culprit is an unforgiven sin (even it we consider it to be a sin) but the absence of that which saves the sinner, i.e. Faith.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Right. The description is of a person who does not have Faith ("He that believeth not is condemned already because he hath not believed...."). How much clearer could that be?

 

[prism]

It's not that the culprit is an unforgiven sin (even it we consider it to be a sin) but the absence of that which saves the sinner, i.e. Faith.

Since faith is a gift, why aren't all given that faith?

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

 

[Albion]

Since faith is a gift, why aren't all given that faith?

That is a question better asked of Dave or some other believer in Predestination. For the majority of Christians and Christian churches which do not think Christ died for only a predesignated group of people, all humans are eligible to come to saving Faith.

And as for how that's done, you have read on these forums many times that Faith comes by hearing (the word).

As for the idea of Faith being a gift, theologians usually explain that this is not just belief and trust in Christ, which is what brings salvation, but it's a reference to a special, supernatural awareness that enables Faith in Christ to make believers extraordinary workers for the Gospel. Others, however, say that the whole thing is above our understanding--how God impacts our minds so that we can commit to Christ--the reality of eternal life, the sacrifice of the Cross, etc. being above and beyond our mental capacity to "reason it out."

 

[prism]

That is a question better asked of Dave or some other believer in Predestination. For the majority of Christians and Christian churches which do not think Christ died for only a predesignated group of people, all humans are eligible to come to saving Faith.

Is it just a matter of being 'eligible to come to saving Faith', or as a gift, it is given, thus eliminating possibilities?

 

[Albion]

Is it just a matter of being 'eligible to come to saving Faith', or as a gift, it is given, thus eliminating possibilities?

Well, as you saw in my previous post, salvation is available to all humans, and Faith is the vehicle by which it is secured.

This Faith is considered to be a gift because that's what Scripture says about it.

But in answer to the question about HOW it would be a gift, the meaning is interpreted either as 1) the ability on the part of those who have received Faith to understand its nature, which is more than simply knowing what Christ did for us, OR 2) it's receiving a spiritual awakening by which Faith leads to the person having a special commitment to living the Christian lifestyle.