The Unmentionable Truth behind “Christ Paid for the Sins of All”.

1689Dave

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People like to hear this version of the gospel but few know where it leads.

Most of the preachers know, but few will mention it. They duck the issue. What it entails is the listener must save themselves through Works. Something forbidden in the Bible and Christianity.

It goes like this. Jesus paid for the sins of all. But it is up to them to respond. And upon doing so, God will save them. So they are their own saviors. The works range from the Sacraments to deciding to believe, and finally, deciding not to resist the message. The latter is an attempt to escape the salvation by works dilemma. But the dirty little secret is, you end up trusting in yourself for salvation instead of Christ.

Luther taught strongly against this saying: “For if, as long as he has any persuasion that he can do even the least thing himself towards his own salvation, he retain a confidence in himself and do not utterly despair in himself, so long he is not humbled before God; but he proposes to himself some place, some time, or some work, whereby he may at length attain unto salvation.”

But what is the gospel if not this? What is it? It is the simple message outline “… that Christ died for our sins (not everyone’s) according to the scriptures; and that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:” 1 Corinthians 15:3–4. When heard, if we spontaneously believe the message, it tells us of our salvation. Only the saved will believe it. And then followed by the command to repent and be baptized, will confirm our belief.

But many unbelievers make a decision, choosing to believe as a work of the flesh. Possibly because they fear the consequences. And they proceed in a life of religious works they trust will save them, just as Luther warned against, trusting in themselves for salvation any time they see fit, instead of trusting in Christ.
 

Jason76

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It goes like this. Jesus paid for the sins of all. But it is up to them to respond. And upon doing so, God will save them. So they are their own saviors. The works range from the Sacraments to deciding to believe, and finally, deciding not to resist the message. The latter is an attempt to escape the salvation by works dilemma. But the dirty little secret is, you end up trusting in yourself for salvation instead of Christ.

Nobody is their own savior. People simply have a free-will to rebel against getting the supernatural help (walking in the light) to be godly and acceptable.
 

1689Dave

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Nobody is their own savior. People simply have a free-will to rebel against getting the supernatural help (walking in the light) to be godly and acceptable.
Free Will does not exist. Just as a dog chooses what dogs choose, or cats choose what cats choose, sinners choose what sinners choose. (they love their sins and hate God). Being born again, and only then, Christians choose what Christians choose.
 

Jason76

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Free Will does not exist. Just as a dog chooses what dogs choose, or cats choose what cats choose, sinners choose what sinners choose. (they love their sins and hate God). Being born again, and only then, Christians choose what Christians choose.
Where is the justice, if there is no freewill?
 

Albion

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Free Will does not exist. Just as a dog chooses what dogs choose, or cats choose what cats choose, sinners choose what sinners choose.
So...your religion holds that sinners are incapable of changing their ways, no matter what...and also that God spent a lot of time preaching the Sermon on the Mount and a hundred similar lectures as recorded in the Bible, in which he calls sinners to choose God and a different lifestyle, to love their neighbors, not return evil for evil, take care of the poor and widowed, mind God's laws concerning marriage, and much more in that vein...

all for nothing, since sinners--which is everyone--cannot change.

🤨
 

1689Dave

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So...your religion holds that sinners are incapable of changing their ways, no matter what...and also that God spent a lot of time preaching the Sermon on the Mount and a hundred similar lectures as recorded in the Bible, in which he calls sinners to choose God and a different lifestyle, to love their neighbors, not return evil for evil, take care of the poor and widowed, mind God's laws concerning marriage, and much more in that vein...

all for nothing, since sinners--which is everyone--cannot change.

🤨
Al Capone could be a model citizen but not for any good reason. Good motives do not exist in anyone, not even a cub scout helping old ladies unless performed for the glory of God.
 

1689Dave

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Where is the justice, if there is no freewill?
Justice is in God damning a corrupt species. We are all cut from the same cloth. God used Adam, who flunked his "quality control" test on our behalf. But Jesus passed the same test on behalf of his children (made to believe). So instead of damnation, we have God's righteousness and all that it deserves not only now, but forever in the New Heavens and Earth.
 

Stravinsk

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Justice is in God damning a corrupt species. We are all cut from the same cloth. God used Adam, who flunked his "quality control" test on our behalf. But Jesus passed the same test on behalf of his children (made to believe). So instead of damnation, we have God's righteousness and all that it deserves not only now, but forever in the New Heavens and Earth.
Where is the justice, if there is no freewill?

Ah, God damning a corrupt species...a species you argue has no free will but at the same time allude to free will by blaming Adam for "flunking" the "quality control"
 

1689Dave

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Ah, God damning a corrupt species...a species you argue has no free will but at the same time allude to free will by blaming Adam for "flunking" the "quality control"
Paul teaches this. I put it in a way you can grasp.
 

Stravinsk

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Paul teaches this. I put it in a way you can grasp.

Ah Shaul/Paul...the pharisee blinded by a sunny Jesus at high noon, only to be given the very mysteries of the faith that Jesus didn't bother to teach the apostles during His time on earth, who's witnesses are none, only himself, and who's words Christians cling to as if they were God breathed...

Do you know what your guru's name means? I mean before he hid behind "Paul".

I bet you don't. I bet you have no clue.
 

1689Dave

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Ah Shaul/Paul...the pharisee blinded by a sunny Jesus at high noon, only to be given the very mysteries of the faith that Jesus didn't bother to teach the apostles during His time on earth, who's witnesses are none, only himself, and who's words Christians cling to as if they were God breathed...

Do you know what your guru's name means? I mean before he hid behind "Paul".

I bet you don't. I bet you have no clue.
Why would I listen to you? Give me a reason.
 

Stravinsk

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Why would I listen to you? Give me a reason.

Why don't you investigate it? You don't need to listen to me. But I bet you won't.
 

1689Dave

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Stravinsk

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Lucian Hodoboc

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What it entails is the listener must save themselves through Works. Something forbidden in the Bible and Christianity.
Faith without works is dead. What is translated as faith is a Greek word that actually means something like "allegiance". Allegiance to Jesus' cause.
 

Stravinsk

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I'm shaking in my loafers.

Then do it. Investigate the name of your super hero. Investigate the tribe he claims to be from (Romans 11:1), and the meaning of this tribe (Gen 49:27). Look into the Hebrew of what the word "Sheol" means. That's the man you are clinging to.
 

1689Dave

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Then do it. Investigate the name of your super hero. Investigate the tribe he claims to be from (Romans 11:1), and the meaning of this tribe (Gen 49:27). Look into the Hebrew of what the word "Sheol" means. That's the man you are clinging to.
Why don't you say what you think? Why would I do your work for you?
 

Stravinsk

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Why don't you say what you think? Why would I do your work for you?

I've already done my work. I'm just asking you to do some simple investigation. And you balk. Why? Looking up a few bible verses and doing a name investigation isn't a huge undertaking. But you balk. And I know why you do. You are afraid.
 

1689Dave

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I've already done my work. I'm just asking you to do some simple investigation. And you balk. Why? Looking up a few bible verses and doing a name investigation isn't a huge undertaking. But you balk. And I know why you do. You are afraid.
If I thought you had anything useful to say. I'd be on it.
 
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