Jesus died for the sins of the world

[Albion]

This is Bible and historic Creedal Christianity.

ROFLOL

There is hardly anything in your interpretations of Christian history or Scripture that accords with the Creeds.

You disavow the Trinity but claim to be accepting of the Nicene Creed, which I suppose is all that is needed for you to continue to post in the Christian Only forums. And when it comes to the Bible, you are a denomination all to yourself, so unlike any branch of Christianity are your own theories.

 

[Faith]

Here AGAIN is your heresy of repudiating faith; your foundational point of your apologetic that if Jesus died for all (as God says) that would mean all individuals have personal justification (the argument you raise ad nausium). But your point is not only unbiblical but heretical.

God in the Bible, John Calvin, the Church Fathers, a Church Council, the Orthodox Church, the Catholic Church, the Lutheran Church, the Anglican Church and more all agree with God that Jesus died for all people and that faith is also essential to personal justification; the CROSS is "there" for all but faith is not. Thus, Christianity has embraced what the Bible states: Both the Cross and faith are essential to personal justification.




Here AGAIN is your heresy of repudiating faith. Again your foundational point of your apologetic that if Jesus died for all (as God says) that would mean all individuals have personal justification (the argument you raise ad nausium). But your point is not only unbiblical but heretical. You've just re-written John 3:16 (to correct God), "For God so loved some unknown few that He gave His son just for those few and they are saved whether they spit in His face and denounce His work or believe, it just doesn't matter, cuz God saves them regardless of faith, faith being a joke."



Here's God's view:


Hebrews 2:9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all

2 Corinthians 5:15 And he died for all

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself as a ransom for all.


We know you disagree with God here, insisting the exact opposite is true.


And here's God's view about faith and it's importance to personal justification:

“God so loved the world that He gave His only Son that whoever believes in Him will not perish but has everlasting life!” (John 3:16),

“Everyone that believes in Christ receives forgiveness of sins through His name” (Acts 10:43)

“Sirs, what must we do to be saved?” They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved.” (Acts 16:30-31)

“For by grace you have been saved through faith in Christ, and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God” (Ephesians 2:8)

But you disagree; your foundational apologetic is that if Christ died for all (as God says) then all are saved regardless of faith. Your view: If Jesus died for all then all have personal justification.


Yes, Jesus died for all exactly as the Bible so often, verbatim states. But faith is not given to all - and that is essential for personal justification.




.

You’re not getting through to him. Aren’t you tired yet?

 

[1689Dave]

ROFLOL

There is hardly anything in your interpretations of Christian history or Scripture that accords with the Creeds.

You disavow the Trinity but claim to be accepting of the Nicene Creed, which I suppose is all that is needed for you to continue to post in the Christian Only forums. And when it comes to the Bible, you are a denomination all to yourself, so unlike any branch of Christianity are your own theories.

If faith is the fruit of the Holy Spirit, how can you have faith before you have the Holy Spirit? You might say well, that's simple, just choose to believe. But that is not faith, it's the flesh trying to produce it and it cannot save a person. If you believe, yo won't need to choose to believe.

 

[1689Dave]

You’re not getting through to him. Are t you tired yet?

God can open eyes and ears, but until he does, people cannot grasp the meaning of spiritual truth.

 

[Josiah]

That not only doesn't make sense, but it isn't in accord with what you have posted before.

His entire apologetic depends on faith being a joke. As he has posted - for weeks, over and over and over, ad nasium - "If Jesus died for all then all would be saved." NO ROLE FOR FAITH WHATSOEVER. Whenever anyone mentions faith, he either has ignored that or stated we are thus Pelagian, synergistic, free-will, Arminianists and thus heretics. But actually the heresy is on his end; his repudiation of faith.


His apologetic rests on
1. Scriptures that don't exist to contradict many Scriptures that verbatim state the EXACT OPPOSITE of his view
2. A goodly number of silly logical fallacies
3. The claim that questions are substantiation.
4. The repudiation of faith.



Here's God's view:


Here's God's view of for whom Jesus died.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all

2 Corinthians 5:15 And he died for all

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself as a ransom for all.


We know Dave disagrees with God here, insisting the exact opposite of God's view.



And here's God's view about faith and it's importance to personal justification:

“God so loved the world that He gave His only Son that whoever believes in Him will not perish but has everlasting life!” (John 3:16),

“Everyone that believes in Christ receives forgiveness of sins through His name” (Acts 10:43)

“Sirs, what must we do to be saved?” They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved.” (Acts 16:30-31)

“For by grace you have been saved through faith in Christ, and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God” (Ephesians 2:8)


Dave disagrees; his foundational apologetic is that if Christ died for all (as God says) then all are saved regardless of faith. His view: If Jesus died for all then all have personal justification, a view he has stated countless times.


Yes, Jesus died for all exactly as the Bible so often, verbatim states. But faith is not given to all - and that is essential for personal justification. We are personally justified by faith in Christ, both the Cross and faith. Both being the work and gift of God.



.

 

[1689Dave]

His entire apologetic depends on faith being a joke. As he has posted - for weeks, over and over and over, ad nasium - "If Jesus died for all then all would be saved." NO ROLE FOR FAITH WHATSOEVER. Whenever anyone mentions faith, he either has ignored that or stated we are thus Pelagian, synergistic, free-will, Arminianists and thus heretics. But actually the heresy is on his end; his repudiation of faith.


His apologetic rests on
1. Scriptures that don't exist to contradict many Scriptures that verbatim state the EXACT OPPOSITE of his view
2. A goodly number of silly logical fallacies
3. The claim that questions are substantiation.
4. The repudiation of faith.



Here's God's view:


Here's God's view of for whom Jesus died.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all

2 Corinthians 5:15 And he died for all

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself as a ransom for all.


We know Dave disagrees with God here, insisting the exact opposite of God's view.



And here's God's view about faith and it's importance to personal justification:

“God so loved the world that He gave His only Son that whoever believes in Him will not perish but has everlasting life!” (John 3:16),

“Everyone that believes in Christ receives forgiveness of sins through His name” (Acts 10:43)

“Sirs, what must we do to be saved?” They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved.” (Acts 16:30-31)

“For by grace you have been saved through faith in Christ, and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God” (Ephesians 2:8)

But you disagree; your foundational apologetic is that if Christ died for all (as God says) then all are saved regardless of faith. Your view: If Jesus died for all then all have personal justification.


Yes, Jesus died for all exactly as the Bible so often, verbatim states. But faith is not given to all - and that is essential for personal justification. We are personally justified by faith in Christ, both the Cross and faith. Both being the work and gift of God.



.

If Jesus paid for everyone's sins, they would be saved. Are you saying He did not?

“For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;” 1 Corinthians 15:3 (KJV 1900)

 

[Josiah]

If Jesus paid for everyone's sins, they would be saved.

Your entire apologetic depends on faith being a joke. As you have posted - for weeks, over and over and over, ad nasium - "If Jesus died for all then all would be saved." NO ROLE FOR FAITH WHATSOEVER. Whenever anyone mentions faith, you have either ignored that or stated we are thus Pelagian, synergistic, free-will, Arminianists and thus heretics. But actually the heresy is on your end; your repudiation of faith.



Your apologetic rests on
1. Scriptures that don't exist to contradict many Scriptures that verbatim state the EXACT OPPOSITE of your view
2. A goodly number of silly logical fallacies
3. The claim that questions are substantiation.
4. The repudiation of faith (as witnessed by the quote above)



Here's God's view:


Here's God's view on for whom Jesus died.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all

2 Corinthians 5:15 And he died for all

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself as a ransom for all.


We know you disagrees with God here, insisting the exact opposite of God's view, that He did NOT die for all.



And here's God's view about faith and it's importance to personal justification:

“God so loved the world that He gave His only Son that whoever believes in Him will not perish but has everlasting life!” (John 3:16),

“Everyone that believes in Christ receives forgiveness of sins through His name” (Acts 10:43)

“Sirs, what must we do to be saved?” They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved.” (Acts 16:30-31)

“For by grace you have been saved through faith in Christ, and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God” (Ephesians 2:8)


You disagree, your foundational apologetic (stated countless times) is that if Christ died for all then all are saved.


Yes, Jesus died for all exactly as the Bible so often, verbatim states. But faith is not given to all - and that is essential for personal justification. We are personally justified by faith in Christ, both the Cross and faith. Both being the work and gift of God.




The actual John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him will not perish but have everlasting life.

Your correction of God, "For God so loved some unknown few that He gave His only begotten Son just for them (and not most, probably not you) so that all of those are saved whether they spit in His face and denounce everything Jesus did or believe in Him, faith being irrelevant and a joke."





.

 

[1689Dave]

Your entire apologetic depends on faith being a joke. As you have posted - for weeks, over and over and over, ad nasium - "If Jesus died for all then all would be saved." NO ROLE FOR FAITH WHATSOEVER. Whenever anyone mentions faith, you have either ignored that or stated we are thus Pelagian, synergistic, free-will, Arminianists and thus heretics. But actually the heresy is on your end; your repudiation of faith.



Your apologetic rests on
1. Scriptures that don't exist to contradict many Scriptures that verbatim state the EXACT OPPOSITE of your view
2. A goodly number of silly logical fallacies
3. The claim that questions are substantiation.
4. The repudiation of faith (as witnessed by the quote above)



Here's God's view:


Here's God's view on for whom Jesus died.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all

2 Corinthians 5:15 And he died for all

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself as a ransom for all.


We know you disagrees with God here, insisting the exact opposite of God's view, that He did NOT die for all.



And here's God's view about faith and it's importance to personal justification:

“God so loved the world that He gave His only Son that whoever believes in Him will not perish but has everlasting life!” (John 3:16),

“Everyone that believes in Christ receives forgiveness of sins through His name” (Acts 10:43)

“Sirs, what must we do to be saved?” They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved.” (Acts 16:30-31)

“For by grace you have been saved through faith in Christ, and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God” (Ephesians 2:8)


You disagree, your foundational apologetic (stated countless times) is that if Christ died for all then all are saved.


Yes, Jesus died for all exactly as the Bible so often, verbatim states. But faith is not given to all - and that is essential for personal justification. We are personally justified by faith in Christ, both the Cross and faith. Both being the work and gift of God.



.

Whoever believes has eternal life = whoever does not believe does not have eternal life.

Why would he die for those who do not have eternal life?

 

[Albion]

1689Dave said:
I've always said only those whom God saves can have true faith. The rest who choose to believe are only fooling themselves.

Perhaps you said THAT about Faith, but you also deny that Faith has any role in the process of salvation.

 

[Josiah]

Why would he die for those who do not have eternal life?

Your apologetic rests on
1. Scriptures that don't exist to contradict many Scriptures that verbatim state the EXACT OPPOSITE of your view
2. A goodly number of silly logical fallacies
3. The claim that questions are substantiation.
4. The repudiation of faith (as witnessed by the quote above)





Here's God's view on for whom Jesus died.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all

2 Corinthians 5:15 And he died for all

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself as a ransom for all.


We know you disagrees with God here, insisting the exact opposite of God's view, that He did NOT die for all.



And here's God's view about faith and it's importance to personal justification:

“God so loved the world that He gave His only Son that whoever believes in Him will not perish but has everlasting life!” (John 3:16),

“Everyone that believes in Christ receives forgiveness of sins through His name” (Acts 10:43)

“Sirs, what must we do to be saved?” They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved.” (Acts 16:30-31)

“For by grace you have been saved through faith in Christ, and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God” (Ephesians 2:8)


You disagree, your foundational apologetic (stated countless times) is that if Christ died for all then all are saved.


Yes, Jesus died for all exactly as the Bible so often, verbatim states. But faith is not given to all - and that is essential for personal justification. We are personally justified by faith in Christ, both the Cross and faith. Both being the work and gift of God.




The actual John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him will not perish but have everlasting life.

Your correction of God, "For God so loved some unknown few that He gave His only begotten Son just for them (and not most, probably not you) so that all of those are saved whether they spit in His face and denounce everything Jesus did or believe in Him."






.

 

[1689Dave]

Perhaps you said THAT about Faith, but you also deny that Faith has any role in the process of salvation.

It IS Salvation. But choosing to believe with the flesh is damnation. If you have true faith, you are saved, faith proves that. But if you must choose to believe, you don't have true faith and are lost.

 

[Albion]

It IS Salvation.

Yes, Salvation is Salvation and we've been making references to Salvation.

However, it's still true that you've posted your opinion that Faith has no effective role to play in the process of Salvation.

But choosing to believe with the flesh is damnation. If you have true faith, you are saved, faith proves that.

Here you have chosen your words carefully in order to seem to be affirming the standard Christian belief in the role and importance of Faith, but you didn't actually retreat from your view that Faith has no effective role in the process of Salvation.

It's much like the point James makes in his Epistle that many people say validates Works. Actually James is not saying that, but he IS saying there that merely using the word "Faith" and claiming it for oneself means nothing if it's considered by the speaker to be just a word to throw around.

 

[1689Dave]

Yes, Salvation is Salvation and we've been making references to Salvation.

However, it's still true that you've posted your opinion that Faith has no effective role to play in the process of Salvation.


Here you have chosen your words carefully in order to seem to be affirming the standard Christian belief in the role and importance of Faith, but you didn't actually retreat from your view that Faith has no effective role in the process of Salvation.

Faith is the evidence of salvation. Are we twisting again, like we did last summer?

 

[Josiah]

Faith is the evidence of salvation.

You are still repudiating the role of faith in personal justification. You continue in your horrible heresy, although after WEEKS and COUNTLESS posts, you are no longer calling us Pelagian, Arminianist, free-will, synergistic, works-righteous heretics for mentioning faith. Progress.


Your apologetic rests on

1. Scriptures that don't exist to contradict many Scriptures that verbatim state the EXACT OPPOSITE of your view
2. A goodly number of silly logical fallacies
3. The claim that questions are substantiation.
4. The repudiation of faith





Here's God's view on for whom Jesus died.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all

2 Corinthians 5:15 And he died for all

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself as a ransom for all.


We know you disagree with God here, insisting the exact opposite of God's view, that God is just wrong here.



And here's God's view about faith and it's importance to personal justification:

“God so loved the world that He gave His only Son that whoever believes in Him will not perish but has everlasting life!” (John 3:16),

“Everyone that believes in Christ receives forgiveness of sins through His name” (Acts 10:43)

“Sirs, what must we do to be saved?” They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved.” (Acts 16:30-31)

“For by grace you have been saved through faith in Christ, and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God” (Ephesians 2:8)


You disagree, your foundational apologetic (stated countless times) is that if Christ died for all then all are saved.




.

 

[1689Dave]

You are still repudiating the role of faith in personal justification. You continue in your horrible heresy, although after WEEKS and COUNTLESS posts, you are no longer calling us Pelagian, Arminianist, free-will, synergistic, works-righteous heretics for mentioning faith. Progress.


Your apologetic rests on

1. Scriptures that don't exist to contradict many Scriptures that verbatim state the EXACT OPPOSITE of your view
2. A goodly number of silly logical fallacies
3. The claim that questions are substantiation.
4. The repudiation of faith





Here's God's view on for whom Jesus died.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all

2 Corinthians 5:15 And he died for all

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself as a ransom for all.


We know you disagree with God here, insisting the exact opposite of God's view, that God is just wrong here.



And here's God's view about faith and it's importance to personal justification:

“God so loved the world that He gave His only Son that whoever believes in Him will not perish but has everlasting life!” (John 3:16),

“Everyone that believes in Christ receives forgiveness of sins through His name” (Acts 10:43)

“Sirs, what must we do to be saved?” They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved.” (Acts 16:30-31)

“For by grace you have been saved through faith in Christ, and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God” (Ephesians 2:8)


You disagree, your foundational apologetic (stated countless times) is that if Christ died for all then all are saved.




.

If Jesus purchased the church with His own blood, wouldn't it include everyone according to you and some others?

 

[Albion]

Faith is the evidence of salvation. Are we twisting again, like we did last summer?

No, that is not you twisting again. After a lot of evasions, you here are admitting to what your personal viewpoint concerning Faith is. It is what you have stated before.

But Faith is not just a consequence of justification. Faith is not merely "evidence" of something else which does everything that matters. Faith is not simply a side effect of having been saved, like a nice warm feeling, or a sense of relief, that a person might get when he's come to believe in Christ.

All those ways of looking at Faith contrast with what the Bible teaches about Faith.

 

[Josiah]

If Jesus purchased the church with His own blood, wouldn't it include everyone according to you and some others?

Yes, He purchased the church. But nowhere does God state your view that He died ONLY, SOLELY, EXCLUSIVELY for the church. Here is just one of your many logical fallacies, one illustrated by this: "Ford makes Mustangs, ERGO Ford ONLY makes Mustangs." I'm sure you see the absurdity, the logical fallacy there. It's the exact one on which your apologetic depends.


Your apologetic rests on

1. Scriptures that don't exist to contradict many Scriptures that verbatim state the EXACT OPPOSITE of your view
2. A goodly number of silly logical fallacies
3. The silly claim that questions are substantiation.
4. The repudiation of faith





Here's God's view on for whom Jesus died.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all

2 Corinthians 5:15 And he died for all

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself as a ransom for all.


You disagree with God here, insisting the exact opposite of God's view, that God is just wrong here.



And here's God's view about faith and it's importance to personal justification:

“God so loved the world that He gave His only Son that whoever believes in Him will not perish but has everlasting life!” (John 3:16),

“Everyone that believes in Christ receives forgiveness of sins through His name” (Acts 10:43)

“Sirs, what must we do to be saved?” They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved.” (Acts 16:30-31)

“For by grace you have been saved through faith in Christ, and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God” (Ephesians 2:8)


You disagree, your foundational apologetic (stated countless times) is that if Christ died for all then all are saved.



.

 

[1689Dave]

Yes, He purchased the church. But nowhere does God state your view that He died ONLY, SOLELY, EXCLUSIVELY for the church. Here is just one of your many logical fallacies, one illustrated by this: "Ford makes Mustangs, ERGO Ford ONLY makes Mustangs." I'm sure you see the absurdity, the logical fallacy there. It's the exact one on which your apologetic depends.


Your apologetic rests on

1. Scriptures that don't exist to contradict many Scriptures that verbatim state the EXACT OPPOSITE of your view
2. A goodly number of silly logical fallacies
3. The silly claim that questions are substantiation.
4. The repudiation of faith





Here's God's view on for whom Jesus died.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all

2 Corinthians 5:15 And he died for all

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself as a ransom for all.


We know you disagree with God here, insisting the exact opposite of God's view, that God is just wrong here.



And here's God's view about faith and it's importance to personal justification:

“God so loved the world that He gave His only Son that whoever believes in Him will not perish but has everlasting life!” (John 3:16),

“Everyone that believes in Christ receives forgiveness of sins through His name” (Acts 10:43)

“Sirs, what must we do to be saved?” They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved.” (Acts 16:30-31)

“For by grace you have been saved through faith in Christ, and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God” (Ephesians 2:8)


You disagree, your foundational apologetic (stated countless times) is that if Christ died for all then all are saved.

John 10 proves you were wrong from the start.

 

[Albion]

John 10 proves you were wrong from the start.

How so?

You see, "talk is cheap," and you specialize in that kind of posting.

 

[1689Dave]

How so?

You see, "talk is cheap," and you specialize in that kind of posting.

Why not take a swing at it? See what you come up with. Here it is again.

John 10 shows that Jesus did not die for the Pharisees in his audience and that is why they did not believe.

“I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.” John 10:11 (KJV 1900)

“But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.” John 10:26 (KJV 1900)